I'm going to kick myself for doing this...

[Dusty Hanshaw]

I've been really busy lately with so many things but after looking over this board and a few others that I frequent I have to ask why so many guys stay on for the better part of the year? Why do so many guys believe that the key to getting big comes in the form of drugs? This is not a rant but a serious question. Why is it that in most of the threads where I read about a guy that has been on for a very long time or is taking very high dosages is TYPICALLYwritten by a guy who isn't that big? This website easily has some of the best athletes in the world on it and I feel safe in assuming that MOST of these guys spend a good amount of time growing naturally or at the very least on Dr prescribed dosages of HRT. Why can't some guys understand that success in this sport is about a hell of a lot more than the amount of gear you use or how long you are using. I don't like to bring up names but i know for a fact that a guy who has placed in the top five at the USA's as a SHW who used to be a member of this board would spend his entire offseason clean. He used food, rest, and smart training to grow while also giving his body a break from any anabolics.

Am I the only one who believes that you can continue to grow while being clean for the better part of the year? I really want to hear some peoples opinions on the matter so please explain why you feel that I am either correct or a complete idiot.

 

[tkav1980]

Well dusty i think the year long cycles have more to do with the state of mind of the individual. maybe they feel that they will not be able to maintain or grow without it. maybe they are scared of the way they will feel when they come off or scared of losing mass when coming off. i would bet that most people involved in this sport define their own self worth by the size of their muscles. and anything that could comprimise that simply cant be done. i personally am in favor of short cycles, 4 weeks or so, to utulize the compound in a way thats effective and take enough time off to recover in between. as far as cycling is concerned more dramatic results can probably be accomplished with longer cycles of use but recovery could take longer as well. ive added mass with DC while eliminating anabolics and i have aweful genetics. if i can do it anyone can.

 

[Lee Salado]

I don't think most people need much to grow and can of course grow naturally. But there is a point at which further natural growth would be impossible.

For the average member here (low level competitor/casual bber) there is probable no reason to stay on year round other than just plain wanting to. And I can't say there is anything wrong with it. People can do whatever they like. Some people use rec drugs or drink excessively, some people are morbidly obese and close to death due to their eating/activity habits. Some people juice year round and don't need to.

But I agree with you that most people can grow naturally.....to a point. Obviously at some point (after hard work and good dieting practice is exhausted and no longer working alone), your body's natural makeup will not support more growth.

Thats just my opinion now though. Maybe its wrong. The more I learn the more my opinions change

 

[b-boy]

I've been really busy lately with so many things but after looking over this board and a few others that I frequent I have to ask why so many guys stay on for the better part of the year? Why do so many guys believe that the key to getting big comes in the form of drugs? This is not a rant but a serious question. Why is it that in most of the threads where I read about a guy that has been on for a very long time or is taking very high dosages is TYPICALLYwritten by a guy who isn't that big? This website easily has some of the best athletes in the world on it and I feel safe in assuming that MOST of these guys spend a good amount of time growing naturally or at the very least on Dr prescribed dosages of HRT. Why can't some guys understand that success in this sport is about a hell of a lot more than the amount of gear you use or how long you are using. I don't like to bring up names but i know for a fact that a guy who has placed in the top five at the USA's as a SHW who used to be a member of this board would spend his entire offseason clean. He used food, rest, and smart training to grow while also giving his body a break from any anabolics.

Am I the only one who believes that you can continue to grow while being clean for the better part of the year? I really want to hear some peoples opinions on the matter so please explain why you feel that I am either correct or a complete idiot.

ha ha amen! so true bro! this needed to be said, but im not getting into it, i took enough heat with the whole big heinz bullshit, so im keeping my mouth closed and my opinion to myself, cause i got a very strong opinon on this subject.

 

[robot]

I've been really busy lately with so many things but after looking over this board and a few others that I frequent I have to ask why so many guys stay on for the better part of the year? Why do so many guys believe that the key to getting big comes in the form of drugs? This is not a rant but a serious question. Why is it that in most of the threads where I read about a guy that has been on for a very long time or is taking very high dosages is TYPICALLYwritten by a guy who isn't that big? This website easily has some of the best athletes in the world on it and I feel safe in assuming that MOST of these guys spend a good amount of time growing naturally or at the very least on Dr prescribed dosages of HRT. Why can't some guys understand that success in this sport is about a hell of a lot more than the amount of gear you use or how long you are using. I don't like to bring up names but i know for a fact that a guy who has placed in the top five at the USA's as a SHW who used to be a member of this board would spend his entire offseason clean. He used food, rest, and smart training to grow while also giving his body a break from any anabolics.

Am I the only one who believes that you can continue to grow while being clean for the better part of the year? I really want to hear some peoples opinions on the matter so please explain why you feel that I am either correct or a complete idiot.

I can't respond for others but I can try for myself
currently @ +40 years, 5'9" 225, 12%
goal 250'ish, 8%

In order to put on a significant amount of muscle without aas I find it is entirely necessary to get fat and then diet down. The aas appears to allow me to put on muscle fairly continuously without putting on nearly the same amount of fat. While I am of the 12 weeks on, 8 weeks off ilk and still use a pct plus hcg rather than simply staying on with hrt that still means I'm on 30 weeks of the year which to my mind is a lot.

If I was shooting for maintenance this would be a heck of a lot lower.

 

[kscowboy]

Dusty i think it is the typical nature of humans today. I know as americans, we have became very lazy and demand results now instead of being patient and expecting quality over quantity and speed. We are fatter than ever, less active than ever, lazier than ever, and demand more without putting out more effort. Americans want their internet to be lightening fast, cell phone signals everywhere, fast food, softer lazy boy recliners, beer on sunday etc......We as a culture have made ourselves into this fat ass lazy society. This is no different than the people you are referring to in this thread. They want to be huge overnight, eat what they want, live a reckless life and then take tons of juice to over come their lazyness and false expectations.

 

[bigman1]

Well this is a subject that should get a lot of feedback. I personally use to compete on the natinal level in P/L and was ranked in the top 50 for my deadlift and to be honest if I would have knew what I know now I would not have used nearly as much gear as I did in the past. We think so many times that more is better and more equals more power or more mass. To be honest I will never be ripped like a bodybuilder and Ihave been in every weight class from 198 all the way upto SHW and I never saw my abs to the degree some of you have. BAck to the subject at hand if you do not have the genetics all the drugs in the world will not make them for you.

The sad part is that so many try by more is better and then what they did gain they do not want to lose so they stay on year round and use what they call HRT and as we all know these people are still using 250mg or higher which is not HRT.

I do not disagree with staying on year round if your doing it right and yes I believe there is a right way. I also know many pros who say they are clean in the off season and clean to them is still HGH, IGF and many other items.

There are those who FEEL they need to stay on year round due to a mental state and there are those who CHOOSE to stay on year round because they know how to stay on year round. Bottom line is women now stay on the pill for a lifetime and never come off and that is safe so if they truly studied test and guys staying on year round I feel they woukld also find that to is safe

 

[whiteknucks]

Dusty and Bboy, you guys need to realize that yall are in the top 3% maybe 1% of the worlds population as far as your physiques go. im not about high doses but i stay on or else i lose and have to make it all back up. over the years i have learned from this board and members like yourselves what it takes to look maybe half as good as all you gifted ass dudes. ( i.e. diet, training, sleep, supplements) i have learned to listen to my body and can read it quite well. i think that longevity is the key for me and many others as long as SAFETY comes FIRST. lord knows this is a dangerous lifestyle, but as long as people know what compounds are doing what to there internal guts then whats the big deal?

Dusty and Bboy, what would happen if you guys stayed on year round? would you not gain? lemme hear your thoughts. no disrespect intended to you guys.

 

[b-boy]

Dusty and Bboy, you guys need to realize that yall are in the top 3% maybe 1% of the worlds population as far as your physiques go. im not about high doses but i stay on or else i lose and have to make it all back up. over the years i have learned from this board and members like yourselves what it takes to look maybe half as good as all you gifted ass dudes. ( i.e. diet, training, sleep, supplements) i have learned to listen to my body and can read it quite well. i think that longevity is the key for me and many others as long as SAFETY comes FIRST. lord knows this is a dangerous lifestyle, but as long as people know what compounds are doing what to there internal guts then whats the big deal?

Dusty and Bboy, what would happen if you guys stayed on year round? would you not gain? lemme hear your thoughts. no disrespect intended to you guys.

the question is why would i want to stay on? im a bodybuilder and i truly don't give a rats ass how big i am walking around the gym and the streets everyday, so if i shrink up in the offseason, then so what? I only need to be big, full, hard, dry, and lean one day out of the year or two at most and thats the day i do a show (i usually only do one or maybe two shows a year) so being on for 16 weeks during a diet is long enough for my body (not that i do steriods im only talking make believe here as AAS are illegal in my country). IMO the longer you stay on the more your body fights against what you are trying to do. YOU cannot continue to just grow, grow, grow or we would have many 300-400lb bodybuilders walking around the earth.

 

[whiteknucks]

the question is why would i want to stay on? im a bodybuilder and i truly don't give a rats ass how big i am walking around the gym and the streets everyday, so if i shrink up in the offseason, then so what? I only need to be big, full, hard, dry, and lean one day out of the year or two at most and thats the day i do a show (i usually only do one or maybe two shows a year) so being on for 16 weeks during a diet is long enough for my body (not that i do steriods im only talking make believe here as AAS are illegal in my country). IMO the longer you stay on the more your body fights against what you are trying to do. YOU cannot continue to just grow, grow, grow or we would have many 300-400lb bodybuilders walking around the earth.

but what would happen if you did?

 

[whiteknucks]

staying on year round (not hrt doses) has more to do with personal insecurities & phsycological addiction than it does with bodybuilding per se.

maybe for some, but not everyone.

 

[pesty4077]

the question is why would i want to stay on? im a bodybuilder and i truly don't give a rats ass how big i am walking around the gym and the streets everyday, so if i shrink up in the offseason, then so what? I only need to be big, full, hard, dry, and lean one day out of the year or two at most and thats the day i do a show (i usually only do one or maybe two shows a year) so being on for 16 weeks during a diet is long enough for my body (not that i do steriods im only talking make believe here as AAS are illegal in my country). IMO the longer you stay on the more your body fights against what you are trying to do. YOU cannot continue to just grow, grow, grow or we would have many 300-400lb bodybuilders walking around the earth.

No offense here Bigboy, but todays Bodybuilders are definitely alot bigger then those in the 70's, 80's and it isn't all training and nutrition. Todays BB's take the drug limit alot further then ever before and you see at the Olympia, some are still growing. Some smart ones have gotten out before they ruin their health. We will see in 10-20 years, who is going to have health issues and who isn't. So, to say it isn't all about drugs, that might be true, but it is abused more then ever. That isn't just BB, that is in all sports.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dusty and Bboy, you guys need to realize that yall are in the top 3% maybe 1% of the worlds population as far as your physiques go. im not about high doses but i stay on or else i lose and have to make it all back up. over the years i have learned from this board and members like yourselves what it takes to look maybe half as good as all you gifted ass dudes. ( i.e. diet, training, sleep, supplements) i have learned to listen to my body and can read it quite well. i think that longevity is the key for me and many others as long as SAFETY comes FIRST. lord knows this is a dangerous lifestyle, but as long as people know what compounds are doing what to there internal guts then whats the big deal?

Dusty and Bboy, what would happen if you guys stayed on year round? would you not gain? lemme hear your thoughts. no disrespect intended to you guys.

See I kind of take exception to that. I cant speak for BBoy because Ive never trained him (but I,... like him took alot of heat on the Heinz thread...so I'm right there with you bro...LOL)....but I do know Dusty's plan of attack pretty well. And it involves heavy heavy weights for mucho reps and food as his anabolic. Yes i think he has better genetics than the average bodybuilder but also not on the par of Dillett, Heath, Wheeler etc, etc. Heck who does? He got where he is because (to bottom line it) he is AS SPARTANLIKE with lifting and his diet and his nutritional supplementation as anyone that is on these message boards. Meticulous and Consistent would not be strong enough words to put on his nametag.
I believe genetics rule this sport above all else, no doubt about it. Ive caught more shit (especially on this board) over the years talking about genetics and how much they truly separate bodybuilders....and all you hear back is "drugs drugs drugs, they lie, etc etc etc".....yet the bottom line is there are guys out there sitting randomly in barbershops YouTube - Kimbo Slice diss 2 with 22-23 inch arms who whether anyone likes it or not, whether they pound juice to the high heavens, that have a genetic edge over the average guy.
In Dusty's case, that guy was 205 pounds a handful of years ago, how the heck did he get to 290 to 304 pounds offseason and land in the magazines and with supplement contracts? By outsaucing anyone on this board?....please....90% of people on this board would be embarrassed to the nines and probably quit lifting if they knew the very truth......I wish I could state it, noone would believe it anyway....doesnt matter. There are 205-215 pound guys putting up stuff in their regimen on this very board that boggle my mind because they are polypharmacying more drugs and amounts over long periods of time than people weighing 100 pounds more than they are.
I said it 10 years ago and I'll say it now.....food is your anabolic. And the various factors you do to stave off bodyfat in that "food is your anabolic" process is the key.
I really think the following is the problem. I feel most bodybuilders lose the concept of becoming a more massive functional cardio fit athlete.....remember those keywords "cardio fit athlete".......the mindset of most bbers is all or nothing, "sit around, eat alot and lift weights, ....do it natural and get big and smooth/fat, do it with the sauce and get big and semi-smooth but with androgens definitely helping the look'

Here is a very good question to ask yourself.....

I am going to offer you 20 million dollars if you can accomplish the following. I want you 20 pounds heavier next year at this time at the same exact bodyfat percentage you are now. The stipulation is this....Im going to rigorously drug test you at an Olympic Testing level every 2 weeks for the entire year....if you pass for the entire year Im going to give you 500k just for trying (even if you dont gain the 20 pounds)....if you fail one test, just one....your gone, nothing. Think about that for a second. What would you do? How would you go about it. I know what i would do. I would be a 7 day a week treadmill-walking, heavy ass lifting, 'screw the freaking BMR' over and above shoveling in boatloads of clean food, especially at spongelike times (post cardio, post lifting), meticulous with my nutritional supplemental [bodyfat burning, recovery, and muscle building environment (leucine, creatine etc)] MF.

Ask yourself that same question and really think out the answer and how you would accomplish it....and you might find yourself with alot less guesswork and alot more gains.

 

[VTliftVT]

In relation to this, do you feel someone with a pituitary tumor as myself and forced to be on TRT levels year round will be negatively affected? And if so, what would the reason be? Is this the receptor theory? I get bloodwork done year round to monitor my health so I constantly know where I am at and I have never had any out of range numbers regarding my normal blood panel and health screens.

I have worked with SuperD in the offseason and currently work with Shelby so I understand the importance of diet and training. I believe that drugs aren't the end all be all in mass so everything else is in agreeance. I just honestly want to know what if any negative affects I will incur bc to a degree I am "on" year round.

 

[big nasty]

I couldn't agree with you more, Dusty

I'm a nobody/never will be bodybuilder but I completely agree with you. My BEST gains have ALWAYS come with absolutely nothing in my body but food. I won't ever knock anybody for year round usage but I firmly believe that it is a waste and very harmful to one's body so I won't ever do it. Short, hard, heavy cycles seem to work best for me so that's what I will stick to but if someone else feels they need to stay on the so be it - more power to them. Besides, I've never needed drugs to be big or strong - I just love to lift and lift HEAVY and that has seems to work for me. Good post.

 

[whiteknucks]

See I kind of take exception to that. I cant speak for BBoy because Ive never trained him (but I,... like him took alot of heat on the Heinz thread...so I'm right there with you bro...LOL)....but I do know Dusty's plan of attack pretty well. And it involves heavy heavy weights for mucho reps and food as his anabolic. Yes i think he has better genetics than the average bodybuilder but also not on the par of Dillett, Heath, Wheeler etc, etc. Heck who does? He got where he is because (to bottom line it) he is AS SPARTANLIKE with lifting and his diet and his nutritional supplementation as anyone that is on these message boards. Meticulous and Consistent would not be strong enough words to put on his nametag.
I believe genetics rule this sport above all else, no doubt about it. Ive caught more shit (especially on this board) over the years talking about genetics and how much they truly separate bodybuilders....and all you hear back is "drugs drugs drugs, they lie, etc etc etc".....yet the bottom line is there are guys out there sitting randomly in barbershops YouTube - Kimbo Slice diss 2 with 22-23 inch arms who whether anyone likes it or not, whether they pound juice to the high heavens, that have a genetic edge over the average guy.
In Dusty's case, that guy was 205 pounds a handful of years ago, how the heck did he get to 290 to 304 pounds offseason and land in the magazines and with supplement contracts? By outsaucing anyone on this board?....please....90% of people on this board would be embarrassed to the nines and probably quit lifting if they knew the very truth......I wish I could state it, noone would believe it anyway....doesnt matter. There are 205-215 pound guys putting up stuff in their regimen on this very board that boggle my mind because they are polypharmacying more drugs and amounts over long periods of time than people weighing 100 pounds more than they are.
I said it 10 years ago and I'll say it now.....food is your anabolic. And the various factors you do to stave off bodyfat in that "food is your anabolic" process is the key.
I really think the following is the problem. I feel most bodybuilders lose the concept of becoming a more massive functional cardio fit athlete.....remember those keywords "cardio fit athlete".......the mindset of most bbers is all or nothing, "sit around, eat alot and lift weights, ....do it natural and get big and smooth/fat, do it with the sauce and get big and semi-smooth but with androgens definitely helping the look'

Here is a very good question to ask yourself.....

I am going to offer you 20 million dollars if you can accomplish the following. I want you 20 pounds heavier next year at this time at the same exact bodyfat percentage you are now. The stipulation is this....Im going to rigorously drug test you at an Olympic Testing level every 2 weeks for the entire year....if you pass for the entire year Im going to give you 500k just for trying (even if you dont gain the 20 pounds)....if you fail one test, just one....your gone, nothing. Think about that for a second. What would you do? How would you go about it. I know what i would do. I would be a 7 day a week treadmill-walking, heavy ass lifting, 'screw the freaking BMR' over and above shoveling in boatloads of clean food, especially at spongelike times (post cardio, post lifting), meticulous with my nutritional supplemental [bodyfat burning, recovery, and muscle building environment (leucine, creatine etc)] MF.

Ask yourself that same question and really think out the answer and how you would accomplish it....and you might find yourself with alot less guesswork and alot more gains.

good point. it would be impossible, and for most it would be extremely tough while failing drug test left and right.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

In relation to this, do you feel someone with a pituitary tumor as myself and forced to be on TRT levels year round will be negatively affected? And if so, what would the reason be? Is this the receptor theory? I get bloodwork done year round to monitor my health so I constantly know where I am at and I have never had any out of range numbers regarding my normal blood panel and health screens.

I have worked with SuperD in the offseason and currently work with Shelby so I understand the importance of diet and training. I believe that drugs aren't the end all be all in mass so everything else is in agreeance. I just honestly want to know what if any negative affects I will incur bc to a degree I am "on" year round.

Personally no I dont believe that you have an incredible difference with someone who has normal healthy testosterone levels. (I am being very specific on the normal healthy part of that....as I am talking about high range) I do believe you have a slight advantage due to endo testosterone receding at times of stress, illness, fatigue/rhythms/lack of sleep etc etc etc.....that is not going to happen with you much exog wise and yes i believe you will be at a slight advantage because of that.....at the advantage of someone pounding 1500-2500 grams of test for 12-16 weeks and then backing off to 500mg a week on their between cruising weeks?.....LOL no

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

good point. it would be impossible, and for most it would be extremely tough while failing drug test left and right.

that wasnt my point

 

[kscowboy]

Point being that only about 1 or 2 people on this board have the ABILITY to achieve this (Physically or mentally).

 

[csuperman]

I am going to offer you 20 million dollars if you can accomplish the following. I want you 20 pounds heavier next year at this time at the same exact bodyfat percentage you are now. The stipulation is this....Im going to rigorously drug test you at an Olympic Testing level every 2 weeks for the entire year....if you pass for the entire year Im going to give you 500k just for trying (even if you dont gain the 20 pounds)....if you fail one test, just one....your gone, nothing. Think about that for a second. What would you do? How would you go about it. I know what i would do. I would be a 7 day a week treadmill-walking, heavy ass lifting, 'screw the freaking BMR' over and above shoveling in boatloads of clean food, especially at spongelike times (post cardio, post lifting), meticulous with my nutritional supplemental [bodyfat burning, recovery, and muscle building environment (leucine, creatine etc)] MF.

Ask yourself that same question and really think out the answer and how you would accomplish it....and you might find yourself with alot less guesswork and alot more gains.

I think many people could or would accomplish that with that incentive, thats the kind of determination one needs.