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Insulin. Is it worth the risk?

nuteboy

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Hello everyone. Today I had attended the Jr. Nationals. Awesome contest. All of the competitors were great. I "personally" enjoyed the middle weights.

In any event, my purpose of attending was the view the super heavyweight class. Those guys were really big. A bit sloppy but big.

After viewing the super heavyweights it seems the competitors are LARGE. Maybe on insulin and GH??? I'm doing the Jr. Nationals next year and want to compete as a super heavyweight. I was wondering if using insulin ( at around 2IU's) per workout) is risky? I'd be using it with GH and my other goodies.

To me that's the only way I can get my mass up in the 260-ish?

Any replies would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

Vein

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Insulin is definitely worth it, the thing most people forget to do is respect the stuff and it definitely deserves the utmost respect!!, do your research on the stuff and remember more is not always better with slin!
 

Fathead

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Nute

There seems to be a lot of guys that use insulin on this board so it's a popular subject here.
Insulin is a dangerous substance and if you know how to manipulate your own you never need to substitute as your body makes plenty.

I have made this argument for 15 yrs it's not like it has just started being used 5 years ago it's been around a while.

I'd suggest 6 to 12 iu's of GH a day in 12 wk cycles if your really serious about hitting the super heavies. Not a popular resonse I am sure but I never won a show with insulin and neither did a lot of other top amatures and pros alike.
 

Dave_19

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Vein said:
Insulin is definitely worth it, the thing most people forget to do is respect the stuff and it definitely deserves the utmost respect!!, do your research on the stuff and remember more is not always better with slin!
vein this is the most Ive ever seen you write, 2 sentences, if your gonna be the first to respond about this and first words you say are "its definitly worth the risk" you shoudl follow up with a bit more info like how Deadly it is and about Hyperglycemia, CARBING UP after, slin sitters, atleast a link to an artical explaing signs of hyperglycemia and no comment on weather its worth it. you just seem like u always wanna post to get your # up, and on such a dangerous topic u should say a bit more then your normal 6 words.
 

nuteboy

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Now I'm confused

Okay I'm a bit confused now. I've done my research on insulin and already know about how to take it after a workout; how to carb up after an administration and which insulin is the safest "being Humalog" then insulin R.

I researched how to know consume any high fat foods while on Humalog as it will transport that into a person's system.

My question is does it really work? I was thinking of using it during my offseason as I prepare for the Jr. Nationals next year.

When I did the ILL I used T3, Clen, Halos and Tren. I did not used Test or A50's during my precontest. I also did not use GH. I want to use GH and Test during my precontest for the Jr. Nationals. Maybe not using Test maybe me lose too much muscle mass?

In any event, I'm confused if I should used insulin or just not. Is it worth it? If I use it, I wanted to keep the IU's very low and use a fast acting to avoid serious health problems.

Any comments from anyone? Thanks.
 

Vein

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Daveb_19 said:


vein this is the most Ive ever seen you write, 2 sentences, if your gonna be the first to respond about this and first words you say are "its definitly worth the risk" you shoudl follow up with a bit more info like how Deadly it is and about Hyperglycemia, CARBING UP after, slin sitters, atleast a link to an artical explaing signs of hyperglycemia and no comment on weather its worth it. you just seem like u always wanna post to get your # up, and on such a dangerous topic u should say a bit more then your normal 6 words.

If he does his research he'll find that out for himself!, as for "My normal 6 words" I guess you're the post police? and by the way this is coming from the same guy that I've helped on several occasions, you guys crack me up! lol
 

Steak Helmet

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Hey now no hostility here...I thought all that was taken care of on other posts...

Try not to waste NUTEBOYS post by arguing PM each other.

Nuteboy,

I would do a search on here...this topic was talked about in full detail a while ago...there is tons of info in the search menu

Good luck, and if you have any questions after reading, let us know people are here to help
 

BIGKIWI

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bro insulin is well worth it have used for nearly 6 years now and never used any human gh :) 2iu is a waste of time use at least 8-10 iu at time you will get great results
 

anhedoniac

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have used for nearly 6 years now
I read in another post that you use it everyday - when did you start the ED use?Have you used it ED for 6 years?

Do you do glucose tolerance tests and fasting glycemia regularly?Everything normal?Any sides at all?
 

Dave_19

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Daveb_19 said:


vein this is the most Ive ever seen you write, 2 sentences, if your gonna be the first to respond about this and first words you say are "its definitly worth the risk" you shoudl follow up with a bit more info like how Deadly it is and about Hyperglycemia, CARBING UP after, slin sitters, atleast a link to an artical explaing signs of hyperglycemia and no comment on weather its worth it. you just seem like u always wanna post to get your # up, and on such a dangerous topic u should say a bit more then your normal 6 words.
it just seems like your just post whoring and, im not the only one who comments on it, others have said the same thin to me with you always will just put the question mark smily and thumbs up say something on everything, and when its over a deadly topic u should nto comment unless ur gonna support why u atleast put some of the risk, too many idiots out thier this guy could have a botle of slin right now and u say its definitly worth it be too pumped up and take 20iu right now and end up dead cuz he didnt do his research and forgot to carb up.. i just had a friend in the past experience real bad hyperglycemia took only 12 iu and got tired went to sleep didnt mean to fall asleep and didnt get a chance to eat luckly another one of my other friends showed up a couple hours later and tried to wake him and found that somethign was seriously wrong with him and called 911, and prob would have died w/o that help.
 

Vein

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Daveb_19 said:


it just seems like your just post whoring and, im not the only one who comments on it, others have said the same thin to me with you always will just put the question mark smily and thumbs up say something on everything, and when its over a deadly topic u should nto comment unless ur gonna support why u atleast put some of the risk, too many idiots out thier this guy could have a botle of slin right now and u say its definitly worth it be too pumped up and take 20iu right now and end up dead cuz he didnt do his research and forgot to carb up.. i just had a friend in the past experience real bad hyperglycemia took only 12 iu and got tired went to sleep didnt mean to fall asleep and didnt get a chance to eat luckly another one of my other friends showed up a couple hours later and tried to wake him and found that somethign was seriously wrong with him and called 911, and prob would have died w/o that help.


I'm sorry to hear about your friends having problems with slin, but if nute does his research like everyone should do!, then he shouldn't run into any problems!!, and if you or others don't think my answers are good enough or that they don't quite meet your expectations then maybe you guys need to remember that last time I checked this board was free and the information that we all share is a privilege to all of us!, also if you and other members are that concerned about my posts and how many words they consist of, you guys might have a little to much time on your hands.;)
 

b-boy

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insulin

nuteboy first let me start off by saying i have seen you post on other boards before i came here (chad nicholls) and let me say i think you have a great build bro, now to insulin, i am no way an insulin expert, but i just recently used insulin for the first time about a few weeks ago, im sure you have researched your ass of as i did, but let me say something that is all so important and that is having yourseslf a babysitter if you want to call it that, When i started my insulin I educated my wife on the dangers of insulin and told her under no circumstances to let me come home from the gym and take a nap, i also gave her a list of questions to ask me if i seem foggy and out of it, and if an emergency should arrive to tell the paramedics or whoever that i had taken insulin so they will know how to respond to my emergency, i tell you all this not to scare you but just to let you know please take the necessary precautions, I DO think insulin is worth it, my muscles have really filled out and i am even loosing bodyfat, i am gradually working my way down with my carb consumption post workout, i started at 10grm per iu and im GRADUALLY lowering that number, and im def. leaning out and staying pumped and full as hell, So good luck on your decision, and BE SAFE!
 

BIGKIWI

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Have stayed on constantly for last couple years before that I would cycle on and off every few months. No real change in tolerance etc but I have recently increased my dosage so I cantry and grow bit more :)
 

Johnny Bravo

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Unless your going to be a IFBB Pro

I think its just plain foolish to use it. My .02
 

Fathead

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KIWI

NOT to start an argument kiwi as you know I respect you but your probably a borderline diabetic and don't even know it.
 

homonunculus

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Some info to focus us

As fathead pointed out, learning to manipulate your own insulin is very important. Do this before even thinking about insulin injections. I for instance do this when bulking by consuming a large liquid "meal" during my workouts (1700+ kcal - 150g protein) so I am hyperinsulinemic right after the workout.

(Dave, FYI: you have meant to say *hypo*glycemic above, I believe, not *hyper*glycemic.)

According to endocrinologists and other people w/ expertise (academic) in this area I have spoken with, insulin is considered to be the MOST anabolic hormone, even more so than testosterone. (Partly b/c it acts on so many tissues, but that's another story.)

--------

-The standard rule (for hum R) is 10g for carbohydrate for each IU injected, immediately post injection and again 2hr afterwards. If you for instance were to inject 8 IU (subq) that mean two 80g carb meals. BUT, carb entry will depend upon:
-Type of carb (GI)
-Timing of your last meal
-Protein and Fat in your meal.
-Water w/ the meal
-Gastric distention
-Etc.

If you ate 80g of carbs from fibrous veggies along with 4 chicken breasts (or 4 small steaks), I wouldn't be surprised if you went hypo.

Going hypo also depends upon insulin sensitivity, which is a funciton of:
-Timing of last meal (insulin's cellular effects last for hous after it has cleared the blood)
-Genetics
-Bodyfat levels
-Other beyond this scope

Insulin entry from the site can also vary accoring to vascularization, blood flow there and skin temp (will affect blood flow).

If you took in, say 20g of carbs / IU - shoot 8IU and take in 160g carbs at each of two meals, I can't imagine someone going hypo.

------

As far as sides, Pancreatic (beta-cell) atrophy or apoptosis (cell death) is the one I'd be worried about. The fear is that the pancreas simply wouldn't function well b/c it is not used. This would be akin to testicular atrophy after gear use.
Another concern might be return of insulin sensitivity, but I don't imagine that would be a problem, either.

Take an example: someone takes 10IU @ 8 AM(postworkout a). Out of system at noon. Another 10IU at 6PM, out of system at 10PM. 2 -3 meals during the day where the pancreas will function "normally."
This person will have been on exogenous (injected) insulin for 8 hr, leaving 16 hr for pancreatic function to normalize. (It is more complicated than this, I realize, but I hope you see my point.)

-----

There are people all over the place who don't plan well, have ADD or suffer some kind of freak accident / mishap. Insulin CAN screw you up. So can gear. So can weight training. Most accidents occur in the home (in the kitchen I believe). You can pull a muscle wiping your ass... (OK, sorry ;) )

----

I faintly recall hearing / reading of some reports of people like dave's buddy who were hospoitalize b/c of (or supposedly b/c of) insulin use (non-diabetics). Anyone have any links?...

--

Just my $.02

-Randy
 

LATS

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I ALSO HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MY MOTHERS ENDO WHEN SHE WAS HAVING CANCER TREATMENTS...this was a few years ago and he had some of his college football and track and field pictures on the wall..well, being as we were both fairly young and we started b.s. about various things...i brought up insulin and if it would make some of these athletes diabetics...he stated, "no as long as they are not doing multiple injections through out the day for a long period of time...if they are doing fast acting ones like humalog right after a session, they will only have it in their system for a very short time. the rest of the day the body will have to produce its own..so once a day injections will not do that if a fast acting insulin is used. but, you will eventually get less effect with it so it needs to be used in cycles". take it for what its worth!!:D
 

nuteboy

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WOW, thanks EVERYONE!!!

Thank you everyone. I need to take all of you out to dinner for that info. Also, b-boy I did not think of that one. About having a baby sitter. My girlfriend would be that person.

I'll do more research and decide in the next three or four months if I want to use insulin. Considering my last workout is over at 8pm, I don't see how I can use it. I'm in bed around 1:30am but I don't know.

In any event, I'm really happy of all the info I received. I'll tell you being at the Jr. Nationals and seeing Chris Cormier, Stan Mcray ( I know I spelled his name wrong), Art Atwood, George Farah, King Kamali ( who guessed posed) and Dave Palumbo. It was like a dream.

Now I'm back at work and I see all these normal people ( my co-workers). It's like dreaming you're rich and to only be awaken and you find out you're not.
 

MikeS

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I totally agree with LATs in that if youre not doing it several times a day, everyday, for extended peroids, then it should be OK to use. YES YOU DO HAVE TO EDUCATE YOURSELF. First and foremost, and more than most any other performancing enhancing aid! And this also goes for any other medication-you should have no congenital problems that would interact with the drug you are supplementing; unfortunately sometimes one does not know about existing or future problems in themselves. There is a risk in anything!

Besides that its just another tool that works extremely well in the hands of a knowledgable user.
 

Mojo Rising

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Good ol slin

It is good stuff, had a buddy use that and that alone... no gear and he put on 30lbs!!!!

My suggestions is get that Babysitter ready. I would start with 6iu and work up to 12iu post workout. After a sub q shot I would take a Mass recover by ABB (35 protein 60 carbs which like 50 are from maltodextrin which will hit you very fast. I would eat about 45 min later, bunch of sweet potaots and either a low low fat meat of some protein isolate to keep the fat away. I would also keep some carbo Force around as it has a ton of carbs in it and different GI's. With these meals i would throw in some Glutamine, BCCA and maybe creatine(doest work for me).

If you eat fatty food within a 4-6 hour frame(humalog - humalin r ) you will get fat and bloated quick! Good luck and let us know how your going to set your program up! MOJO
 

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