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Is insulin as effective with low volume training ?

LATS

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We all know that protocols like milos call for high volume ( giant sets) and them humalog etc... Most will tell you there is a reason for this " depleting " style workout and milos SLIN protocal.. But can insulin be as effective with low volume ? Of course it worked for dorian.. But on the whole is it as effective.. ? Opinions ?
 

Landmonster

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I have thought about this, although I haven't done much experimentation on it. My guess is that insulin works better the more depleted you are. In that sense, it has more of a "job" to do.

Insulin shuttles nutrients towards muscles (or fat). We know that longer and more voluminous workouts increases your muscles' sensitivity to insulin more than brief workouts. We also know that longer workouts deplete your muscle glycogen more than brief workouts.


You mentioned Dorian as an example. For what it's worth, Dorian said he experimented with insulin and didn't find it very effective, he simply got fatter from it, and discontinued it. He doesn't recommend it to current clientele.

Dorian was known for using extremely heavy weights in the 6-8 rep range, with low volume. He very strongly believed in overloading the muscle, and then leaving the gym to recover.

Milos, on the other hand, completely morphed from insulin protocols. He was known for using high volume, and much lighter weights.

Just using really simple high-level "bro logic"... it seems that a depleted muscle from a high-volume workout would respond better to insulin.

If we take the logic to the other extreme: if you give a sedentary obese person insulin in the absence of a workout, it causes almost no muscle growth, they just get fatter.
 
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thethinker48

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I don't see why not.

People who can train low volume and grow efficiently KNOW how to train hard. They can tax quite a bit of glycogen stores doing 1 all out widowmaker set.

Insulin would aid recovery during that per-workout period, and would be a great way to undo a lot of that damage a lot quicker.

This is me just looking at it from a recovery/peri-workout approach. Not taking into account advanced insulin protocols and the pathways those use to induce growth.
 

Landmonster

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I don't see why not.

People who can train low volume and grow efficiently KNOW how to train hard. They can tax quite a bit of glycogen stores doing 1 all out widowmaker set.

Insulin would aid recovery during that per-workout period, and would be a great way to undo a lot of that damage a lot quicker.

This is me just looking at it from a recovery/peri-workout approach. Not taking into account advanced insulin protocols and the pathways those use to induce growth.

I get that logic too. I suppose we would need to know how much glycogen is actually depleted in those "Widowmaker" kind of sets in a low volume approach, vs a prolonged typical high-volume workout.
 

heavyhitter

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I’ve run humilin r while training dc style for quite some time with great results
 

2swole79

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Ive always kind of “instinctually” trained and felt that spin was more beneficial with what would be for me at least higher volume sessions than when I trained heavier weights, lower reps, and sets. Admittedly my personal spin experience is limited and I’ve never really pushed it with higher GH by bodybuilder standards. This is also one of those things are likely highly individual with so many different variables from one guy to the next.
 

KillerStack

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I agree with Dorian saying insulin gives instant gratification through water retention, it's not really muscle in the short term. This is true of GH and AAS too though. Insulin probably increases the bloat even more with crazy high volume training what with the inflammation from the "overtraining". This is not to say insulin doesn't make for a more favorable environment for true contractile tissue gains though.
You get the craziest insulin gains re-gaining lost size, like blowing up a balloon.

As an aside I just finally got around to trying MK-677. I was shocked when stepping on the gym scales this past week. Been on 25mg for 10 days. I'm up 16lbs! What. The. Fuck. A little scared actually, this amount of water can't be healthy. Nevertheless I'm going to add a moderate dose of Humalog and Lantus for another 10 days to see what happens. People have been commenting on my size, how I look bigger (I'm not big, just bigger). The thing is I only trained twice so far taking MK.
 
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Massive G

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I gave up on mk677 after superior went away haven't been able to find a suitable liquid or cap even got powder and made my own.
It to me was stronger than GH to me because it didn't cause the heart issues - raise in HR yes but generics made my heart thud and jump.
Got the same numbness and bloat on mk and seros.
 

Massive G

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I was going to try a run of slin again got all the types but just not in a position to severely deplete myself right now on upcoming holidays away from home where training and meals slip a bit.
Optimal use for me was destroying the body in the gym to exhaustion and slin helped better than anything to recover and instill 3 D fullness with minimal fat gain.
Training subpar and insulin left me with fat gain and energy issues.
 

Elvia1023

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As an aside I just finally got around to trying MK-677. I was shocked when stepping on the gym scales this past week. Been on 25mg for 10 days. I'm up 16lbs! What. The. Fuck. A little scared actually, this amount of water can't be healthy. Nevertheless I'm going to add a moderate dose of Humalog and Lantus for another 10 days to see what happens. People have been commenting on my size, how I look bigger (I'm not big, just bigger). The thing is I only trained twice so far taking MK.

Everyone responds differently but I am sure you can now see why many of us have posted about MK's strength over the years. Not all good sides but to me it's just as strong as any hgh I have used. Now "strong" is a relative term and some may hate it as putting on 10 pounds of water in 1 week isn't for everyone. Although for me 10mg gives great fullness without it spilling over and is a great addition to any cycle. I personally can't function on 25mg and sleep constantly and can't live a productive life at that dose. 10mg for me is a good balance of everything.

I was going to try a run of slin again got all the types but just not in a position to severely deplete myself right now on upcoming holidays away from home where training and meals slip a bit.
Optimal use for me was destroying the body in the gym to exhaustion and slin helped better than anything to recover and instill 3 D fullness with minimal fat gain.
Training subpar and insulin left me with fat gain and energy issues.

Great posts and I agree. Again everyone is different and there is no right or wrong answer to this question. Lat's you could have great results using slin on a low volume program. However for me and generally speaking insulin is much better when used with higher volume/intensity. The type and dose of slin is an important factor as well.

If guys start using high doses the chances of fat gain simply increase. I would need to train higher volume and dose the slin around that training to minimize fat gain. Although if doses of say 3-5iu are used that changes everything. Many use a low dose throughout the day and fat gain can be minimal using that protocol. I have tried approx 4iu 3 times daily and liked the results but didn't carry it on for long enough. People should be eating clean all day no matter what insulin they use but especially when it is active. So the likes of lantus and again in larger doses increases the importance of 24/7 clean eating.

I am experimenting now and for me I think no more than 10iu fast slin should ever be used. I like 6-8iu around training (perhaps pre and post). I am currently using 20iu lantus in the morning approx 3 days per week as well. It's a complex question as there are so many variables and a prime one for many could be hgh usage (and the brand of hgh) when using slin. An extreme example if someone were on 9iu pharm grade hgh daily and eating clean they could probably use huge doses of slin and gain minimal fat. For most people though I think 6-8iu humalog around training and perhaps some longer acting (30iu) in the morning is a solid protocol for mass whilst minimizing possible fat gain.

The Milos protocol but in smaller doses (6-10iu instead of 15-25iu) is another solid one. There chances of gaining fat on that are minimal if done correctly. The higher the slin dose though the more chance of fat gain. The higher the dose the more training volume I would recommend as well. I know a few guys who just got fat running Milos style doses even around training like he recommends. The issue is these guys are slamming huge shakes to compensate for the huge slin dose. As you know it should be the other way round. I have had 100g carbs intra training for a while so adding 8iu humalog fits me well. I have tried higher doses and you get fuller but softer and it's too far in the bad direction imo. Sensible doses at sensible times is the way to go imo.
 

megroo

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This is something I have always wondered as well.

I felt I wasn’t getting the benefits of pumping all the nutrients around the muscle with a low volume approach?

Also say you’re taking your slin pre workout... such as mike Arnold’s protocol, with pre and post shakes etc...
How far before would you have you’re last meal, and what would it consist of?

I’ve found whilst trying to eat to put on size my last meal before training would be an hour ish. Any longer and I’d be hungry.
But then, are the effects of taking the insulin blunted by the fact you’re already flooded with nutrients in the blood stream etc??

I guess what I’m trying to say here is, would it be best if you were slightly carb depleted before the workout to make the most of the insulin and shakes??

But then begs the question of what to eat before hand. Especially if you’re eating 4-5k plus.
 

IronLion2

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Bump as im curious
 

Feeshoils

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Interestingly enough, a lab rat i know didn't seem to get as much from pre workout insulin use when training low volume.

The "insulin fullness" and crazy pump that insulin is known for, didn't seem as evident on a low volume type program. Even when the diet remained the same.

Muscle soreness didn't vary all that much as lab rat tends to not get as sore on lower volume training splits as opposed to higher volume. lab rat couldn't really tell the difference in recovery or performance on days when they took the slin versus when they didn't.

However when switching up to a higher volume training program, the crazy pump, fullness, endurance and overall recovery/fatigue is significantly improved when using insulin pre workout versus not using it at all.
Can absolutely tell the difference taking versus not taking slin with high volume training.
 

opietaylor

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I gave up on mk677 after superior went away haven't been able to find a suitable liquid or cap even got powder and made my own.
to me was stronger than GH to me because it didn't cause the heart issues - raise in HR yes but generics made my heart thud and jump.
Got the same numbness and bloat on mk and seros.




give Mike Arnolds MK product a try, very high quality. I only need a 12.5mg dose
 

TheOtherOne55

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I personally see better results with higher volume when running slin.

For instance, doing a JM program and running slin and GH vs running Fortitude or DC running slin and GH. My body LOOKS different on the JM program. I DO think either program can work with slin...but with a low volume approach you just need much much less slin.
 

epoxy

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As far as the comments on MK go, I agree - this shit makes you absolutely sluggish compared to GH. The only way I've been able to stand it in the past is with the addition of huprazine A 200mcg 3 times daily. I just recently attempted a run of 10mg MK without Hup A and I had to stop it, literally falling asleep at the gym, it was awful.
 

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