Just survived heart attack at age 38, follow up to Phil's post

[maldorf]

BP is of course crucial to heart health as well. With heart failure you want BP to be asked as possible, low but posing no negative side effects like dizziness.

Yesterday at the doctor's mine was 100/65. Usually what mine runs when I'm doing well. If I'm in v tach it gets really low. At the ER it was 75/50.

 

[maldorf]

Good article on the clotting disorder I have.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/01.cir.0000135582.53444.87

This notes increased risk of clots for:

"or (3) have a temporary condition that leads to an increased clotting tendency, such as recent surgery, trauma, a cast, prolonged immobility, pregnancy, or the use of oral contraceptives or hormone replacement therapy."

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Hey Maldorf, when you initially had a reduced ejection fraction then mentioned you came off things and everything improved....did you come off everything entirely or just drop down to TRT levels? If the latter, what level of TRT did you go on for everything to improve?

 

[maldorf]

Hey Maldorf, when you initially had a reduced ejection fraction then mentioned you came off things and everything improved....did you come off everything entirely or just drop down to TRT levels? If the latter, what level of TRT did you go on for everything to improve?

I went off absolutely everything. I was completely natural for about 11 months.

I think my natural levels came back to suitable levels too, because I didnt feel like dog shit that year. At that time I had been doing things the old fashioned way. I had been cycling on and off steroids. I had never done GH or insulin. I never had blood levels taken, but I felt OK.

Years later, after my heart attack when I went off everything ,my testosterone blood levels dropped down to about 40 and never got higher for the year i tried. At that time I had gone to the more modern way most do now of blast and cruise. IMO it was the cruising that wiped my natural production out permanently.

When I had the cardiomyopathy with an ejection fraction of 35% or so they called it idiopathic because they could find no cause. After getting off steroids and my heart recovered, I think its quite evident what the cause was. I hadn't been on extremely high doses either. Nothing more than what most on here use.

 

[maldorf]

You might be wondering why the hell i went back on the crap again. I have to say I was addicted to the effects of steroids. I explained to myself that it was probably just a coincidence that my heart got better when I got off the steroids. I figured I had some kind of virus that caused it. When you are addicted to something, you find ways to explain away the obvious. I didnt want to stop using.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I went off absolutely everything. I was completely natural for about 11 months.

I think my natural levels came back to suitable levels too, because I didnt feel like dog shit that year. At that time I had been doing things the old fashioned way. I had been cycling on and off steroids. I had never done GH or insulin. I never had blood levels taken, but I felt OK.

Years later, after my heart attack when I went off everything ,my testosterone blood levels dropped down to about 40 and never got higher for the year i tried. At that time I had gone to the more modern way most do now of blast and cruise. IMO it was the cruising that wiped my natural production out permanently.

When I had the cardiomyopathy with an ejection fraction of 35% or so they called it idiopathic because they could find no cause. After getting off steroids and my heart recovered, I think its quite evident what the cause was. I hadn't been on extremely high doses either. Nothing more than what most on here use.

I know it's been a while but do you remember what kind of cardiomyopathy you had? Was your heart dilated?

My heart never went back to normal after my few years of gear even though I dropped down to TRT levels of 80-120mg I now wonder if everything would have reversed if I just came completely off. Because the reality is my free test was still at the high end of normal or even slightly above normal on my TRT. And while I don't think my heart damage would have occurred if I only ever took TRT I do wonder if by NOT dropping the TRT there was still too much of an anabolic signal for the heart to reverse the damage.

Almost like how when guys blast for years and then go on TRT they are able to maintain WAY more muscle than if they only ever went on TRT alone. I wonder if something similar happened with my heart where the 3 years of cycling / blasting & cruising caused the heart damage and then because I tried to stay on TRT it never reversed.

My argument against that is that my TRT really was extremely mild. Most of the last 5.5 years has been 80mg with maybe 1.5 years of it at 120mg. And we have TRT studies showing no negative effects on heart size and even an improvement in heart failure patients.

But still I do wonder if going back completely natural at the time would have somehow helped reverse what was done. When I hear these stories of guys reversing damage, and when I see it in studies, usually the subjects come off completely.

 

[NEMSZ]

I know it's been a while but do you remember what kind of cardiomyopathy you had? Was your heart dilated?

My heart never went back to normal after my few years of gear even though I dropped down to TRT levels of 80-120mg I now wonder if everything would have reversed if I just came completely off. Because the reality is my free test was still at the high end of normal or even slightly above normal on my TRT. And while I don't think my heart damage would have occurred if I only ever took TRT I do wonder if by NOT dropping the TRT there was still too much of an anabolic signal for the heart to reverse the damage.

Almost like how when guys blast for years and then go on TRT they are able to maintain WAY more muscle than if they only ever went on TRT alone. I wonder if something similar happened with my heart where the 3 years of cycling / blasting & cruising caused the heart damage and then because I tried to stay on TRT it never reversed.

My argument against that is that my TRT really was extremely mild. Most of the last 5.5 years has been 80mg with maybe 1.5 years of it at 120mg. And we have TRT studies showing no negative effects on heart size and even an improvement in heart failure patients.

But still I do wonder if going back completely natural at the time would have somehow helped reverse what was done. When I hear these stories of guys reversing damage, and when I see it in studies, usually the subjects come off completely.

Please correct me if I’m wrong but haven’t you not been able to get a clear answer about your heart and whatever issue it might be? From what I remember you seem to have a “jumpy” EF going from 55% to 45% to 50% and up and down etc? Is there an actual diagnosed issue?? I’m not aware as I’ve tried to follow your situation but haven’t seen anything specific..

What are your symptoms or what made you start digging around about that? If I recall correctly you’re fairly young too, right? And you said your “blasts” weren’t anything high dose or for very long, right? You think it might be a genetic factor coupled with AAS use? Or something else?

Im not one of these confirmation bias people but the way, who look for every reason/excuse other than AAS, just generally not up to date on your situation and curious...

 

[maldorf]

I know it's been a while but do you remember what kind of cardiomyopathy you had? Was your heart dilated?

My heart never went back to normal after my few years of gear even though I dropped down to TRT levels of 80-120mg I now wonder if everything would have reversed if I just came completely off. Because the reality is my free test was still at the high end of normal or even slightly above normal on my TRT. And while I don't think my heart damage would have occurred if I only ever took TRT I do wonder if by NOT dropping the TRT there was still too much of an anabolic signal for the heart to reverse the damage.

Almost like how when guys blast for years and then go on TRT they are able to maintain WAY more muscle than if they only ever went on TRT alone. I wonder if something similar happened with my heart where the 3 years of cycling / blasting & cruising caused the heart damage and then because I tried to stay on TRT it never reversed.

My argument against that is that my TRT really was extremely mild. Most of the last 5.5 years has been 80mg with maybe 1.5 years of it at 120mg. And we have TRT studies showing no negative effects on heart size and even an improvement in heart failure patients.

But still I do wonder if going back completely natural at the time would have somehow helped reverse what was done. When I hear these stories of guys reversing damage, and when I see it in studies, usually the subjects come off completely.

Good questions. It has been about 17 years since I had the cardiomyopathy, and so I do not remember exactly what it looked like on the echo. My only symptom was that I got winded easily and my endurance was way down.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Good questions. It has been about 17 years since I had the cardiomyopathy, and so I do not remember exactly what it looked like on the echo. My only symptom was that I got winded easily and my endurance was way down.

Which is kind of remarkable because haven't you mentioned that even now, after having a heart attack, you still feel like you don't get winded that easily? I remember a year or so back you mentioned biking with your daughter (I think) with ease

John Meadows has mentioned feeling great after his heart attack despite his EF being down to 35%. So Idk why I have a more normal EF and still feel symptomatic at times.

Please correct me if I’m wrong but haven’t you not been able to get a clear answer about your heart and whatever issue it might be? From what I remember you seem to have a “jumpy” EF going from 55% to 45% to 50% and up and down etc? Is there an actual diagnosed issue?? I’m not aware as I’ve tried to follow your situation but haven’t seen anything specific..

What are your symptoms or what made you start digging around about that? If I recall correctly you’re fairly young too, right? And you said your “blasts” weren’t anything high dose or for very long, right? You think it might be a genetic factor coupled with AAS use? Or something else?

Im not one of these confirmation bias people but the way, who look for every reason/excuse other than AAS, just generally not up to date on your situation and curious...

I don't want to hijack Maldorf's thread but yes you're mostly correct. I have never gotten a clear answer. Things seemed to improve when I went on Valsartan as per GotGame's recommendation, and from 2016 to maybe 2018 things seemed to be trending a little back to normal. But Fall 2019 was marginally worse and Fall 2020 was again marginally worse from there. I did bump my 80mg TRT up to 120mg TRT in the Spring of 2019.....that's the only thing I can think of IF there's any rhyme or reason to what's going on....in which case I hope my recent dropping to 70mg TRT improves things again. For all I know though these echos could all be similar and within the normal range of user interpretation variance.

And yes I only blasted and cruised for 2-3 years. I did get up to 1-2g in some of those cycles which was stupid of me, I was the classic guy with shit genetics trying to overcompensate with gear after 10+ years of natural training not getting me even close to where I wanted. Worst of all is now I'm no bigger than when I was natural and just have the health consequences to deal with.

My symptoms were mainly chest pressure that made me start digging. I still get random chest pressure/pain/jolts but have never gotten an answer as to why. Have worn a monitor for 2 weeks straight three different times and never saw anything abnormal. I'm 30 now. Blasted from 21 to 24, been on just TRT since. Actually going to be trying to come off soon to see if I can recover fertility...who knows what result it will have on my heart positive or negative.

 

[maldorf]

I definitely can feel my decreased capacity now with 20% ejection fraction, but it is nowhere as bad as you would think it should be for being that low. Some folks will be really bad off when it is that low. I think the health of the rest of the circulatory system and other organs will contribute to how well your body copes with it. The rest of my body, other than the heart, is still in decent shape.

My main problem now is maintaining normal sinus rhythm. If I exercise too hard I risk going into V tach or a fib. My heart has slowly gotten worse over the last 12 years, which was expected. Eventually I will be shopping for a new heart. Just have to pray I can receive one when it is my time.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I definitely can feel my decreased capacity now with 20% ejection fraction, but it is nowhere as bad as you would think it should be for being that low. Some folks will be really bad off when it is that low. I think the health of the rest of the circulatory system and other organs will contribute to how well your body copes with it. The rest of my body, other than the heart, is still in decent shape.

My main problem now is maintaining normal sinus rhythm. If I exercise too hard I risk going into V tach or a fib. My heart has slowly gotten worse over the last 12 years, which was expected. Eventually I will be shopping for a new heart. Just have to pray I can receive one when it is my time.

I've never heard someone describe what I experience but I often feel like I'm low on oxygen, but have normal exercise tolerance. Meaning, I feel like I just held my breath for a few seconds or something like that. I go up one flight of stairs and my HR is 100bpm and I noticed a more labored breathing but I could continue going up a stairmaster for 30min and still only be at 110bpm. Pulse ox is always 95-100bpm, VO2 max is normal, I really have no idea.

I've looked into heart transplants a bit, not extensively, some live 20+ years. One of my patients had a heart transplant and is almost 80 now but he didn't get it until he was ~70 and he looks pretty worn down. From what I've seen it's not like you're 100% like you had your own heart, but at least you're alive.

Would be awesome if you could hold out until 50+ and still make it to 70+ with a new heart and advances in medicine I'm forgetting how old you are but I think 45-50.

I think one of the worst things for both of us (yours admittedly being much worse/scarier) is the constant fear/anxiety that has come from it. The actual medical issue itself is horrible of course but I think the psychological toll has been even greater.

 

[maldorf]

I'm 50 now. Don't know how much longer I have with my heart. I think at least another decade, maybe longer. Ive made it 12 years and it's not a whole lot worse. My ejection fraction is the same, but my rhythm has more trouble now.

Two things about heart transplants im worried are the anti-rejection meds required and then how the heart rate is controlled. When they remove your heart they have to sever the nerves running to the SA node. Wondering if those heal onto the new heart and can control it, im thinking no.

The heart has an intrinsic rate of 100 bpm, would the heart just beat at that rate mostly? Other things like blood gasses and hormones control heart rate too, but how about the vagus nerve innervation ? When that input is severed when they remove your heart, does it work with the new heart? Im rusty on the physiology and anatomy because I haven't studied it since 1992.

 

[maldorf]

Just an update on my health. Everything is holding and im still being safe with covid-19. I hope I can get the vaccine before the end of the year. That sounds very promising now especially with Moderna coming out with one too. My heart seems to be doing just ok. Havent had to go to the er and get defibrillated now since the last trip which was back around a month or two ago, lost track.

Some advice unrelated to my health, regarding freezers for your home. If anyone out there is looking to buy one for the first time or replace one going bad, you better put in your order now and get in line. They are sold out just about everywhere. Our compressor is going out on ours and we have to buy a new one. I got lucky and got one of the last in town. You wont be able to get the brand or exact size you want, so be prepared to be disappointed. That is for upgright freezers. Chest freezers, the kind that open up like a chest, seem not to be in such high demand and you should be able to get one easier. We wanted one that was 16 cu ft or more and chests dont usually go that high and they take up a lot more floor space. I have our's in the basement.

Apparently with the covid-19 situation people started buying up freezers back in March and supply has been low ever since. Now the factories are putting out new ones at 1/2 the normal rate at best since workers are out on quarantine etc. I checked for some at Lowes and they told me the GE I wanted wouldnt be in until Mid Febuary! Earliest you might be able to get one now if the stores are all out is sometime in December. Stores have more on order and they seem to be coming in sporadically. Its a pain in the ass because we have a freezer full of meat and goods thats probably at least $200 or more and we dont want to lose it. My new one is being delivered next Tuesday.

A place out of NY or NJ, cant remember which, has 3 Frigidaires left! 15,5 cu ft. https://www.appliancesconnection.com/frigidaire-fffu16f2vw.html

I originally order from them but found one close to our home and cancelled the order.

 

[muscle96ss]

Just an update on my health. Everything is holding and im still being safe with covid-19. I hope I can get the vaccine before the end of the year. That sounds very promising now especially with Moderna coming out with one too. My heart seems to be doing just ok. Havent had to go to the er and get defibrillated now since the last trip which was back around a month or two ago, lost track.

Some advice unrelated to my health, regarding freezers for your home. If anyone out there is looking to buy one for the first time or replace one going bad, you better put in your order now and get in line. They are sold out just about everywhere. Our compressor is going out on ours and we have to buy a new one. I got lucky and got one of the last in town. You wont be able to get the brand or exact size you want, so be prepared to be disappointed. That is for upgright freezers. Chest freezers, the kind that open up like a chest, seem not to be in such high demand and you should be able to get one easier. We wanted one that was 16 cu ft or more and chests dont usually go that high and they take up a lot more floor space. I have our's in the basement.

Apparently with the covid-19 situation people started buying up freezers back in March and supply has been low ever since. Now the factories are putting out new ones at 1/2 the normal rate at best since workers are out on quarantine etc. I checked for some at Lowes and they told me the GE I wanted wouldnt be in until Mid Febuary! Earliest you might be able to get one now if the stores are all out is sometime in December. Stores have more on order and they seem to be coming in sporadically. Its a pain in the ass because we have a freezer full of meat and goods thats probably at least $200 or more and we dont want to lose it. My new one is being delivered next Tuesday.

A place out of NY or NJ, cant remember which, has 3 Frigidaires left! 15,5 cu ft. https://www.appliancesconnection.com/frigidaire-fffu16f2vw.html

I originally order from them but found one close to our home and cancelled the order.

I had a patient who thought she needed a new fridge and said the same thing. She got lucky as after being off for a short time, the fridge started working again and has been working fine since. But she was stressing out because she wasn't sure what she was going to do.

 

[maldorf]

I had a patient who thought she needed a new fridge and said the same thing. She got lucky as after being off for a short time, the fridge started working again and has been working fine since. But she was stressing out because she wasn't sure what she was going to do.

Yeah. its bad now since production is way down from the factories. The whole supply chain has broken down. It could partly be due to shortages of parts too. I bet a lot comes from China. So even if it is built here in the USA, things can get held up with low supply of parts.

Freezers are even harder than refrigerators because people that usually didnt own them bought them out of fear of running out of meat. Since this past spring so many meat processing plants were closed down due to covid-19. So freezers are still being snatched up out of fear. Everyone already owns refrigerators so there shouldnt be a run on those, but getting a new one is still tough due to the low supply.

 

[maldorf]

If you are a PC gamer like me, you cant find Nvidia graphics cards. Not sure exactly why. They are made in South Korea I think. They have a new series out, the rtx 3000, but they all sold out as soon as they came in and then there havent been any more come in. They had the old rtx 2000 series left over but those all sold out too. People on Amazon were selling the $800 rtx 2080ti for nearly $2000 and people bought them. Never seen this before. I think its probably related to covid-19 as well.

 

[danieltx]

Glad your health is holding up well.

Do you plan to return to public gyms once vaccinated or continue training at home?

 

[maldorf]

Glad your health is holding up well.

Do you plan to return to public gyms once vaccinated or continue training at home?

I think I will continue to stay home since I have an ok setup here. I will eventually go back once the virus has died down for good. The vaccine is between 90 and 95% effective, but I dont think we really know how long immunity will last. I heard that it could be 1 year.

One thing that is great is that the vaccine produces a greater immune reaction than actually getting sick with the virus. People that have been sick with it only seem to have around 3 months immunity.

 

[MethodAir]

I'm 50 now. Don't know how much longer I have with my heart. I think at least another decade, maybe longer. Ive made it 12 years and it's not a whole lot worse. My ejection fraction is the same, but my rhythm has more trouble now.

Two things about heart transplants im worried are the anti-rejection meds required and then how the heart rate is controlled. When they remove your heart they have to sever the nerves running to the SA node. Wondering if those heal onto the new heart and can control it, im thinking no.

The heart has an intrinsic rate of 100 bpm, would the heart just beat at that rate mostly? Other things like blood gasses and hormones control heart rate too, but how about the vagus nerve innervation ? When that input is severed when they remove your heart, does it work with the new heart? Im rusty on the physiology and anatomy because I haven't studied it since 1992.

Recently, our audio technician suddenly became short of breath, and ended up in hospital. Turns out it was CHF, and he just had a heart transplant. He's in his 60s and overweight, but he's doing well overall, all things considered.

 

[maldorf]

Recently, our audio technician suddenly became short of breath, and ended up in hospital. Turns out it was CHF, and he just had a heart transplant. He's in his 60s and overweight, but he's doing well overall, all things considered.

Wow, and prior he didn't know anything was wrong? Weird. I think when people don't exercise, that it can sneak up on you like that. His must have been a lot worse than mine

What's even more surprising is how fast he got a heart. How long did he have to wait? What country is this in?