LATS, and magoo

[noneck76]

man

if these people knew how sick u are they would never talk to u again. but I guess I agree with what u have done for me in the gym
boner

 

[stomper1]

What???

 

[Stroyer]

LATS Routine

I am currently doing a somewhat similar routine to what LATS listed above, with a few very small differences (in a nutshell larger bp see 2 ex 2 work sets ea small bp 1 ex 2 work sets each or in some cases for small bp 2 ex 1 work set ea basically NEVER more than 5 "working" sets per any bp BUT I divide my bp up over 4 days), and have been getting the best gains in size and strength in ages + in addition I feel much better both in and out of the gym, mentally and energy wise, sex drive and appetite is threw the roof from back after a long period of overtraining.

Maybe at this time it is just do to extreme overcompensation do to previous overtraining, only time will tell, but the way things have been going, I am more than satisfied with results thus far so I will ween it out as long as gains keep comin.

 

[LATS]

i am truly sick...but, noneck76 just happens to conveniently come by my house when my 4 year is running around buck naked...just bad timing??? i do not think so..you sick bastard..lol i think the nick name boner says it all.. is that why you wear baggy shorts on your visits..???

 

[DIEZEL666]

Ever tried this?

I used to use this to break strength barriers:

Pick a weight that you can do for 6-8 reps, then do it 3 times. Rest 30 seconds, add 5-10 lbs do another 3 reps, keep doing this until you can't complete three reps. For example

315 X 3 (30 sec)
325 X 3 (30 Sec)
335 X 2 (Done, didn't hit 3 reps)

Next time I would start at 320 or 325.

 

[MAXM]

Question for LATS or anyone ?

So do you guys switch up the 2 ex you do per bodypart each week or stay with the same ex for a while then switch up?

 

[LATS]

in the first routine i generally do.. in the second i like to stick with the same exercises for awhile, just to gauge how things are going..

 

[MAXM]

LATS

do you recommend this routine even if you are off? I am going to start that routine next week but plan on coming off by x-mas. Will this still be something to try while clean or should I change some things up? you may have touched on this earlier but I forgot half of what I read LOL!
thanks bro

 

[stomper1]

maxm,
here is what lats said about this training on and off. He was talking in reference to truly huge but it gives you an idea of how to modify it to your self while off

when we are not supplemented we have to adjust things..an example would be that when we are clear of the androgens, our cortisol levels are pretty high. very bad..we then drop the workouts to three days a week and do not train to failure but, stop about one rep short.. we try to use the same poundage as when supplemented just not as intense.. even if we lose a rep or two we still rty to use close to the same poundage.. having more rest days diffinitely helps.. the reasoning is this.. if truly huge gains 12 pounds when supplemented and training.. we now need to try and keep as much of that as possible.. so tyhe who recovery phase is strictly trying to keep poundage high and to just do enough to keep the gains of the supllemented phase.. we can not expect to gain more bodyweight while we are in tyhe recovery phase so, we are strictly doing damage control and trying to maintain the gains we made..and hold them until another supplement phase is started..

 

[LATS]

MAXM.. train hard when off supplements but, train within reason.. cortisol levels will be high for quite some time after you come off. if you come off properly (hcg, nolva ect) we should maintain most of our gains except for the loss of water.. when training, we try to keep the poundage in the same range so that gains can be kept until we do another cycle.. to train balls out is what will lead to overtraining and frying our nervous system.. i am not even really in favor of going to failure when on cycle.. i sytill feel that most people just fry their central nervous system when traing balls out.. we are brain washed that we need the ultimate in intensity or will will not gain.. we, somehow, feel that we must make the untimate in gains afetr each session.. we dont train for the long run we train for today.. which is very wrong.. we should be trainING with the thought of how we will gain in the next 6 months.. instead we try to shoot our wad in one session to make up for :lost time".. anyway..the whole idea when coming off is to maintain our training poundages and not to fry ourselves so that we may may maintain our gains.. quite simply, we will not gain a whole lot in the recovery phase.. it just will not happen minus the higher androgens of our cycle..ON CYCLE; GAIN.. OFF CYCLE : MAINTAIN..

 

[MAXM]

Thanks bros helps a ton!

LOL I read that and it didnt click when Lats wrote it the first time!

 

[xcelbeyond]

bump

for magoo

 

[Mr_Magoo]

thanx for the bump xcel, i had no idea this post existed, just shows u how busy ive been lately, ill go back into the posts, and respond to what i can, i wont post an all out routine bc that is part of my living but ill give some rough ideas

 

[Mr_Magoo]

thanks for the compliment.. first off you are right that failure is not needed every time you hit the gym..many people, regardless of the volume, can not got to failure because of nervous system drain ect..it truly is a persoanlly thing and each individual is different. the one thing that , in my mind, is the most important factors is OVERLOAD AND FREQUENCY..simply put, the heavier you can go with out draining your nervous and only going as intense as you can with the idea of hitting that bodypart again as soon as possible..we know from your post that failure seems to drain you.. that in turn makes it next to impossible to hit that bodypart again with any frequency.. the muscle may very well be recovered but, your nervous system is fried..trying to workout again with the nervous sytem drain will be a feeble attempt to say the least..baldnazi brings up the westside methods.. i think louie's methods speak for themselves considering he has more powerlifying champs in his gym than any other ...does louie belive in high intensity (hit) training?? no. he very rarely belives in training to failure..so, we need to stimulate growth and just enough so that we can hit that bodypart again as soon as possible..hit does not allow that..i also suffer from going to failure and feeling drained all the time.. i basically could not hit that bodypart again for a week or a little more.so i was taking two steps forward and one step back..so lets say we are going to hit chest delts and tris.. (this is just an example) i would start off with two chest movements that you prefer..do not get stuck in the belief that one is better than the other.. if you hate to bench and do not feel it in your pecs than do not do them ..period. i would keep isolation exercises to a minimum..so lets say dumbell bench and hammer incline press..i would recommend two sets of the dumbell press and two sets of the hammer press..pick a weight that allows you to "fail" at about 7-8 reps.. now, stop short about one rep short of that .. take as much time as you need between sets to be able to handle the most weight you can..now move on to the delts..pick a press movement..two sets.. the same way you did the chest presses..stop one rep short of failure.. now side laterals.. two sets. the same as above.. now tris..i like dips but, if you feel too drained to do them properly then pick a movement that you like.. does not matter.. two sets the same way.. now GO HOME AND EAT.. hit back the same way.. pick two movements and follow that with biceps for two sets.. stopping again short of failure.. end with rear delts two sets.. now, the day after back take that day off.. after that day off train legs.. pick two quad movements two sets, hamstrings two movements, calves two movements..now the next day..TAKE IT OFF.. WHEN YOU COME BACK, TRAIN pecs delts, tris again.. keep a log of your weights.. try to add a rep each time..again stopping short of failure. when you can hit that magic 8 reps... add 10 pounds and start over.. keep on the same movements for 6-8 weeks to be able to monitor your progress..again, this will enable youto hit that bodypart more frquentely and not have the nervous system drain..in regards to the reps.. do not do the negative too slow.. 2-3 seconds is enough.. just good and controlled.. make sure to keep the dsame rep pace each repregardless ofhow tired you are getting.. this is the only way to keep a accurate gauge of your progress..i will post more tomorrow and give a example of other routines.. right now, i must go to bed..i can barely type lol hopefully magoo will see this and post.. we basically have the same dna when it comes to training but, we, like you , are constantly experimenting..

LATS summed it up pretty well, overload and frequency are two of the biggest factors besides recuperation, but that takes place outside of the gym most of the time, exceptions are very light days where the goal is nothing more then to aid blood flow to the muscle, blood flow is the best way to recover

 

[Mr_Magoo]

LATS,
thank for taking the time to write out so much. I agree that heavy is the way to achieve size and certainly strength. and it is nice to hear someone with such an extensive background in training and bodybuilding in general advocate that failure simply is not essentail to gains and that it is still very possible to lift heavy (and intense) without taking the set to the point of failure. I think alot of guys feel that if they are not training to failure than their workout are somehow no longer very intense, but that is simply just not true. I really like what you said about frequency, it only makes sence. the more times you can stimulate growth, the more growth you'll experience assuming rest and recovery are in place.
I liked the routine you outlined and I would very much like to see more whenever you find the time.
and again.....BUMP for lats and magoo.
(these guys can't say enough in my opinion)

failure is absolutely not necessary to stimulate growth as LATS pointed out, the only time i advocate HIT type training is if they are doing a DC type routine, be he advocates frequency which is very important

the other thing is i train with performance in mind.
If you are a football player, how often does one play kill you (injuries aside) u bust ass on every single play, and u give all that is needed but you must also be able to go again shorlty thereafter, in other words you training should reflect this and be emphasized around routines like 5 x 5 and 10 x 3 , sets v reps.
this also allows for a greater overload on the muscle then a 3 sets of ten program, lets say you can and plan to aim for 3 sets of 225 on the bench for ten reps ( only adding weight when you are able to do all 3 sets of ten) you have done 30 reps at 225 pounds

now if u are to go to a ten sets of three program, ull be able to do more weight, lets say all ten sets with 265 pounds, and u have done the same amount of total reps x 40 extra pounds, 1200 more pounds lifted and loaded on your chest muscles

 

[Mr_Magoo]

Re: REVOLUTIONARY

You do realize that everything you wrote Lats goes against everything I believe in? Haha,I know of only one way to train and that is total destruction.I want to leave the gym knowing I WORKED and people respect my partner and me cause we do just that.

I go to failure pretty much every set,and add forced reps when I can.My negatives are super slow on most compound movements.It just feels like the right way to train. I find it impossible to train chest THEN delts,or back and bi's for example.I like to give each bodypart its own focus.So after my experiment of 3 days a week training Im back to 4 a week.

What you are saying makes so much sense though.And there is a little voice in my head saying to try it,along with the other voices,but thats a nother story . So is this the way to train on cycle or off?I always up the intensity/insanity when Im ON.

The next 6 months I want to pack on ALOT of size.I want to go from 260 to as far up as possible,280 is a good number,290 is better.I respect your opinions alot,and thank you for taking the time to answer stompers post.........

ive broken so much more ground from the type of workouts u describe with myself and other people by putting them on a three days a week full body workout where the sets and reps are derivatives or are 10 x 3, or 5 x 5

 

[Mr_Magoo]

Lats,
I know everyone is different when it comes to what training will work for them.
.

this is one of my biggest problems, while true to an extent , go ack and read some of my posts, i think its called "everyone's different, i dont think so"

basically we forget how much alike we are all the time, and too many people think there is some secret routine for growth that is identical to their dna or some shit like that

im not saying u are implying that, but one of my biggest things is stress is we ar every much alike

 

[Mr_Magoo]

a good place to learn more about my methods are from ironman , i think its a great mag, and am a big c. s sloan, bill starr follower, they give great advice on how to lift

 

[Mr_Magoo]

i also use a lot of exercises few bb's do and i think they miss out alot. stuff life cleans, and snatches are some the best back builders anyone can possibly do, im a big free weight advocate

 

[Mr_Magoo]

the other reason i favor low reps, high weight , lots of sets is because u get real muscle growth, the thick, and dense look of people like Johnnie Jackson or my fellow Pollack, WSM Mariusz Pudzianowski

there is science behind it as well, t-mag has a pretty good article called ripped, rugged, and dense in the early 200's that explains this

chad waterbury is also a good writer who knows his shit well

and what LATS said about the arms is so true, u dont need all this crap for them, ill lift them occasionally but mine have not lost one inch when i was rushed for time, so i stopped workin them entirely except for what i got from my rows, pull ups, and presses