Life after kratom?

LK3 · Apr 4, 2017

just wanted to share a thought with you guys as if "I" have to use google when talking bout drugs you know you off into some funny shit. lol

look at the tital of this thread.
"life after kratom"

i watched this sup come out n everyone get all excited, never really understood why but thats not important. so here we are in a thread talking about how to fix the fuckery one thing has doen and it has only devolved into what new fangled thing can we replace it with. lol

now im all for experimentation. lol
but im sitting here reading scratchign my head a bit.

i really struggle with chemistry issues.
i dont think i have any excape form that. the answer seems to be drugs or drugs no matter how hard i fight it.

i understand the motivation to take shit to change the mental horror show.
totally get that.

but in our paninc and effort to find some new panacea we loose site of the bigger picture, that being to undo or do as little damage possible to what we are playing with.

i had to good tia to rememebr wtf we were talking about and this was of interest

As tianeptine was the only agent known to both reduce free serotonin in plasma and enhance uptake in platelets, they decided to use it to see if reducing free serotonin levels in plasma would help.[21] By November 2004, there had been two double-blind placebo-controlled crossover trials and a >25,000 person open-label study lasting over seven years, all showing effectiveness.

from wiki. just real quick

now further down it contradicts a little but....
these drugs are fucking with a LOT of chemistry in not so known ways.

you may do more damage with some unknown shit then with some known shit.

thats my only point. lol no tputting down anybodys product or anything like that, just think beofre you swallow.

does not apply to the ladies!

:welcome:

BIG1512 · Apr 4, 2017

All I know is if you have ever been an addict. The best thing you can do is stay away from anything that gives you that warm fuzzy feeling. Because I can almost guarantee an ex addict will abuse it.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Professional Muscle mobile app

jstrong20 · Apr 4, 2017

BIG1512 said:
All I know is if you have ever been an addict. The best thing you can do is stay away from anything that gives you that warm fuzzy feeling. Because I can almost guarantee an ex addict will abuse it.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Professional Muscle mobile app

Pretty much sums it up. I used it once or twice a week last summer with no problems. Once I felt how well it worked I knew not to go crazy. Lol

Mike Arnold · Apr 4, 2017

LK3 said:
just wanted to share a thought with you guys as if "I" have to use google when talking bout drugs you know you off into some funny shit. lol

look at the tital of this thread.
"life after kratom"

i watched this sup come out n everyone get all excited, never really understood why but thats not important. so here we are in a thread talking about how to fix the fuckery one thing has doen and it has only devolved into what new fangled thing can we replace it with. lol

now im all for experimentation. lol
but im sitting here reading scratchign my head a bit.

i really struggle with chemistry issues.
i dont think i have any excape form that. the answer seems to be drugs or drugs no matter how hard i fight it.

i understand the motivation to take shit to change the mental horror show.
totally get that.

but in our paninc and effort to find some new panacea we loose site of the bigger picture, that being to undo or do as little damage possible to what we are playing with.

i had to good tia to rememebr wtf we were talking about and this was of interest

As tianeptine was the only agent known to both reduce free serotonin in plasma and enhance uptake in platelets, they decided to use it to see if reducing free serotonin levels in plasma would help.[21] By November 2004, there had been two double-blind placebo-controlled crossover trials and a >25,000 person open-label study lasting over seven years, all showing effectiveness.

from wiki. just real quick

now further down it contradicts a little but....
these drugs are fucking with a LOT of chemistry in not so known ways.

you may do more damage with some unknown shit then with some known shit.

thats my only point. lol no tputting down anybodys product or anything like that, just think beofre you swallow.

does not apply to the ladies!
:welcome:

There will always be unknowns with drugs, but I think it is important to remember that tianeptine has been in clinical use for over 50 years with a very impressive track record in terms of safety. The drug has VERY few documented side effects, with none of them being considered serious.

It is considered to be far safer than all the other anti-depressants (tianeptine is clinically used for depression) we see being prescribed today. Certainly, anti-depressants have their own risks--some compounds more than others--but they aren't considered an exceptionally dangerous class of drugs. With tianeptine being considered one of the safest, if not the safest of these drugs (tianeptine is actually in a class of drugs all by itself), I would say it has proven itself to be well tolerated and relatively safe.

It is certainly far safer than most of the substances bodybuilders put in their bodies on a daily basis, which includes STIMULANTS. Stimulants are far more injurious than tianeptine, particularly when it comes to the cardiovascular system. Yet guys use them all the time...and we rarely see anyone posting about how dangerous they are to PED using bodybuilders. There are s shit-ton of guys on this very board who pop Adderall like candy (barely anyone says anything about that either) and use high-dose stimulant-based pre-workout products on a near daily basis...both of which are far worse for a bodybuilder's health than tianeptine.

Tianeptine is not some new drug with an unknown side effect profile. It has been studied extensively for decades...and has never, at any time, shown itself to be dangerous from a health standpoint, nor has it even given any indication of such. There are many doctors and other in the medical field that want to see tianeptine prescribed in America for depression...due to its much greater safety profile (and effectiveness) compared to regular anti-depressants. Yet, they know it will never happen because it is no longer patentable.

In reality, we should be applying your "think before you swallow" mind-set (good advice, by the way) to nearly everything bodybuilders take...and if we did, we would find that tianeptine is benign in comparison. This is why many patients have been using it for decades without any issues...and research has even shown it provides some health benefits...some very important ones too.

So yes, learning is always a good thing, but tianeptine shouldn't be scrutinized anymore than ANYTHING else that is promoted on this board...because the truth is that tianeptine is significantly safer than the vast majority of drugs which make their way through here every day.

johnjuanb1 · Apr 4, 2017

Mike Arnold said:
There will always be unknowns with drugs, but I think it is important to remember that tianeptine has been in clinical use for over 50 years with a very impressive track record in terms of safety. The drug has VERY few documented side effects, with none of them being considered serious.

It is considered to be far safer than all the other anti-depressants (tianeptine is clinically used for depression) we see being prescribed today. Certainly, anti-depressants have their own risks--some compounds more than others--but they aren't considered an exceptionally dangerous class of drugs. With tianeptine being considered one of the safest, if not the safest of these drugs (tianeptine is actually in a class of drugs all by itself), I would say it has proven itself to be well tolerated and relatively safe.

It is certainly far safer than most of the substances bodybuilders put in their bodies on a daily basis, which includes STIMULANTS. Stimulants are far more injurious than tianeptine, particularly when it comes to the cardiovascular system. Yet guys use them all the time...and we rarely see anyone posting about how dangerous they are to PED using bodybuilders. There are s shit-ton of guys on this very board who pop Adderall like candy (barely anyone says anything about that either) and use high-dose stimulant-based pre-workout products on a near daily basis...both of which are far worse for a bodybuilder's health than tianeptine.

Tianeptine is not some new drug with an unknown side effect profile. It has been studied extensively for decades...and has never, at any time, shown itself to be dangerous from a health standpoint, nor has it even given any indication of such. There are many doctors and other in the medical field that want to see tianeptine prescribed in America for depression...due to its much greater safety profile (and effectiveness) compared to regular anti-depressants. Yet, they know it will never happen because it is no longer patentable.

In reality, we should be applying your "think before you swallow" mind-set (good advice, by the way) to nearly everything bodybuilders take...and if we did, we would find that tianeptine is benign in comparison. This is why many patients have been using it for decades without any issues...and research has even shown it provides some health benefits...some very important ones too.

So yes, learning is always a good thing, but tianeptine shouldn't be scrutinized anymore than ANYTHING else that is promoted on this board...because the truth is that tianeptine is significantly safer than the vast majority of drugs which make their way through here every day.

I read several studies on tianeptine yesterday. I learned exactly what you say in the bold above. Tianeptine is a better drug but there's no profit in it in the USA since the patent has run out and generics would be avaible. All this country cares about is making money, not health.

I read a study showing no withdrawal symptoms from tianeptine used everyday for 3 months at 3x/day dosing, 37.5mg/day. I read another study of extreme abuse of a mega dose of 4,000mg per day for an undetermined amount of time with mild withdrawal symptoms of feeling cold skin, nothing bad.

From personal experience I used tianeptine at 90mg/day 5 days a week for 6 weeks, then 8 days straight at the end. This is Day 3 without tianeptine and there are zero withdrawals.

On a side note, avoid research benzos!!! The withdrawals are long term and nasty!

In regards to Kratom, I thought it was the perfect supplement for a year. I abused it heavily! After that I noticed I kept getting injured in the gym. I still didn't make the connection for another 6 months. When I quit Kratom after 1.5 years of abuse I suffered my ass off for several months. I honestly had no idea that would happen. I always posted to use it 3 times a week preworkout only and there would be no issues. I still believe this to be true. When you take 50 grams a day spread over 3 times a day abuse like I did, you will live to regret it.

aphextwin · Apr 4, 2017

I have a ton of experience with it and I had someone experience major withdrawals from T. So, yes, I have a lot of experience using it.

aphextwin · Apr 4, 2017

By the way, this is not an attack toward Mr. Arnold's product line. If used properly……well done

johnjuanb1 · Apr 4, 2017

aphextwin said:
I have a ton of experience with it and I had someone experience major withdrawals from T. So, yes, I have a lot of experience using it.

Do you know how often they were dosing it and what the dose was?
I'm trying to find the limits without experiencing withdrawals. So far I haven't had any issues. I'd like to keep it that way.

Mike Arnold · Apr 4, 2017

aphextwin said:
I have a ton of experience with it and I had someone experience major withdrawals from T. So, yes, I have a lot of experience using it.

There is no debate as to whether or not it can potentially cause withdrawal symptoms. That was established from day one.

However, how likely one is to experience it, as well as it severity, is all dependent on dosage and duration of use. There have now been many, many people who have said they used it anywhere from 5-7 days per week from anywhere from one week to 8 weeks...with no withdrawal symptoms.

Certainly, if the dose is high enough, daily use will cause withdrawal symptoms, but as JohnJaun pointed out, even clinical studies show a complete lack of withdrawal symptoms when used at 37.5 mg/day for long period of time.

The message here is clear. If people follow my recommendations, which are listed right on the bottle, they stand virtually no chance of experiencing withdrawal symptoms. If they use too much for too long, they will.

Mike Arnold · Apr 4, 2017

aphextwin said:
By the way, this is not an attack toward Mr. Arnold's product line. If used properly……well done

I know, buddy.

The thing is, all the facts have already been laid out...and I have readily acknowledged its ability to cause dependence and withdrawals when abused. Heck, I was the first one to tell everyone that way back when I first released it.

But a few guys here are painting the drug in an untrue light.

bigNsmall · Apr 5, 2017

Isnt Kratom like a super immune system booster?

Isnt that in itself worth taking..at least sometimes(not abused obviously)?

Ive been sick once in 2 years or so since Using Kratom and im constantly on the go...working like crazy.

johnjuanb1 · Apr 5, 2017

bigNsmall said:
Isnt Kratom like a super immune system booster?

Isnt that in itself worth taking..at least sometimes(not abused obviously)?

Ive been sick once in 2 years or so since Using Kratom and im constantly on the go...working like crazy.

I didn't get sick for over a year. Just use it a few times a week and it's a great supplement. People with addictive personalities like myself need to be cautious!

bigNsmall · Apr 5, 2017

johnjuanb1 said:
I didn't get sick for over a year. Just use it a few times a week and it's a great supplement. People with addictive personalities like myself need to be cautious!

Yes i agree. Reading this read woke me up and made me realize im starting to go overboard with it. Will back it down and try and use when REALLY needed.

LK3 · Apr 5, 2017

Mike Arnold said:
There will always be unknowns with drugs, but I think it is important to remember that tianeptine has been in clinical use for over 50 years with a very impressive track record in terms of safety. The drug has VERY few documented side effects, with none of them being considered serious.

It is considered to be far safer than all the other anti-depressants (tianeptine is clinically used for depression) we see being prescribed today. Certainly, anti-depressants have their own risks--some compounds more than others--but they aren't considered an exceptionally dangerous class of drugs. With tianeptine being considered one of the safest, if not the safest of these drugs (tianeptine is actually in a class of drugs all by itself), I would say it has proven itself to be well tolerated and relatively safe.

It is certainly far safer than most of the substances bodybuilders put in their bodies on a daily basis, which includes STIMULANTS. Stimulants are far more injurious than tianeptine, particularly when it comes to the cardiovascular system. Yet guys use them all the time...and we rarely see anyone posting about how dangerous they are to PED using bodybuilders. There are s shit-ton of guys on this very board who pop Adderall like candy (barely anyone says anything about that either) and use high-dose stimulant-based pre-workout products on a near daily basis...both of which are far worse for a bodybuilder's health than tianeptine.

Tianeptine is not some new drug with an unknown side effect profile. It has been studied extensively for decades...and has never, at any time, shown itself to be dangerous from a health standpoint, nor has it even given any indication of such. There are many doctors and other in the medical field that want to see tianeptine prescribed in America for depression...due to its much greater safety profile (and effectiveness) compared to regular anti-depressants. Yet, they know it will never happen because it is no longer patentable.

In reality, we should be applying your "think before you swallow" mind-set (good advice, by the way) to nearly everything bodybuilders take...and if we did, we would find that tianeptine is benign in comparison. This is why many patients have been using it for decades without any issues...and research has even shown it provides some health benefits...some very important ones too.

So yes, learning is always a good thing, but tianeptine shouldn't be scrutinized anymore than ANYTHING else that is promoted on this board...because the truth is that tianeptine is significantly safer than the vast majority of drugs which make their way through here every day.

i am not necesarily saying tia is dangerous in its own right.

it does play with some serious chemistry. that part can be an issue.

lol

usually it IS the issue and the reason why someone takes tia, or whatever. lol

pretty sure you get the overall point.

in terms of comparison, as usual what you say IS true, im not saying it isnt and im sure you have read my posts or have some idea on my thinking of htose other medications.

i just see guys plyaing/struggling/idk whatever you wana call it and in many ways all the drug play makes it worse. not a critical statement. just experience. lol

things that play with dopamine and oppiate receptor to me deserve some thought and resect. just what i have learned.

i like your posts n not being critical just trying to be a lil helpful.

really its bad when i sound all motherly n shit. lol

LK3 · Apr 5, 2017

bigNsmall said:
Isnt Kratom like a super immune system booster?

Isnt that in itself worth taking..at least sometimes(not abused obviously)?

Ive been sick once in 2 years or so since Using Kratom and im constantly on the go...working like crazy.

this is a good example of the thinking im talking about.

it is also personal justification just to do drugs or alter your head.
key is beign rela with yourself abou that.

if the goal is to be healthy and strengthen the immune system, while kratom may help, it is also doing a lot of other things.

those other things may lead to problems like the title of this thread.

if one is eating oppiates ed for 2 years stopping one day for shits n giggles might make you realize it bit you in the ass.

again not critical statemens as this happens all the tiem with docs n pain patience. just learn what s going on before doing. much easier said then done. lol

Mike Arnold · Apr 6, 2017

LK3 said:
i am not necesarily saying tia is dangerous in its own right.

it does play with some serious chemistry. that part can be an issue.

lol

usually it IS the issue and the reason why someone takes tia, or whatever. lol

pretty sure you get the overall point.

in terms of comparison, as usual what you say IS true, im not saying it isnt and im sure you have read my posts or have some idea on my thinking of htose other medications.

i just see guys plyaing/struggling/idk whatever you wana call it and in many ways all the drug play makes it worse. not a critical statement. just experience. lol

things that play with dopamine and oppiate receptor to me deserve some thought and resect. just what i have learned.

i like your posts n not being critical just trying to be a lil helpful.

really its bad when i sound all motherly n shit. lol

Yeah, I hear ya. This is why I put on the label that those with psychological disorders (e.g. addiction, depression) should not use the product. I also provided explicit usage limitations.

Big-Dawg · Apr 6, 2017

Mike Arnold said:
Yeah, I hear ya. This is why I put on the label that those with psychological disorders (e.g. addiction, depression) should not use the product. I also provided explicit usage limitations.

Hey brother have to ask,don't you get annoyed answering that exact question, for the at least 200th time on ProMuscle...That's why I'll never own a business, I'd run everyone off lol...

Omni Labs SPONSORED ATHLETE©[email protected]®THE REAPER

LK3 · Apr 6, 2017

Mike Arnold said:
Yeah, I hear ya. This is why I put on the label that those with psychological disorders (e.g. addiction, depression) should not use the product. I also provided explicit usage limitations.

at first i had no knowledge that you had anything to do with any of these. my statements were totally general.

good label! lol
i wish you the best bro!

honeslty id buy a btl to try if i could! lol

Mike Arnold · Apr 7, 2017

Big-Dawg said:
Hey brother have to ask,don't you get annoyed answering that exact question, for the at least 200th time on ProMuscle...That's why I'll never own a business, I'd run everyone off lol...

Omni Labs SPONSORED ATHLETE©[email protected]®THE REAPER

LOL...sometimes, yes, but it's part of the business.