Liver damage - AAS usage vs alcohol

[ItalianStalion9]

here ya guys go

this study showed 150mg drol daily increased liver values 5 fold within the first 4 weeks on 23% of patients

it also happen to be the study that showed 100mg fo drol gave almost identical weight gains as 150mg of drol

admitingly this doesnt compare alcohol, but i dotn think youll be able to find a study on alcohol that increased peoples liver values 5 fold

Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled phase III trial... : AIDS

1: AIDS. 2003 Mar 28;17(5):699-710. Links

Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled phase III trial of oxymetholone for the treatment of HIV wasting.

Hengge UR, Stocks K, Wiehler H, Faulkner S, Esser S, Lorenz C, Jentzen W, Hengge D, Goos M, Dudley RE, Ringham G.
STD-Unit, Department of Dermatology and Venerology, University of Essen, Germany. [email protected]
BACKGROUND: Despite highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART), chronic involuntary weight loss still remains a serious problem in the care of HIV patients. Various alterations in energy metabolism and endocrine regulation have been found to cause loss of lean body mass (LBM) and body cell mass (BCM). Previous studies in HIV-positive men undergoing androgen replacement therapy or treatment with recombinant growth hormone (rGH) have shown partial restoration of LBM, but these treatments have largely been ineffective in eugonadal individuals. STUDY DESIGN: Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of 89 HIV-positive women and men with wasting assigned to the anabolic steroid oxymetholone [50 mg twice (BID) or three times daily (TID)] or placebo for 16 weeks followed by open-label treatment. STUDY ENDPOINTS: Body weight, bioimpedance measurements, quality of life parameters and appetite. RESULTS: Oxymetholone led to a significant weight gain of 3.0 +/- 0.5 and 3.5 +/- 0.7 kg in the TID and BID groups, respectively (P < 0.05 for each treatment versus placebo), whereas individuals in the placebo group gained an average of 1.0 +/- 0.7 kg. Body cell mass increased in the oxymetholone BID group (3.8 +/- 0.4 kg; P < 0.0001) and in the oxymetholone TID group (2.1 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.005), corresponding to 12.4 and 7.4% of baseline BCM, respectively. Significant improvements were noted in appetite and food intake, increased well-being and reduced weakness by self-examination. The most important adverse event was liver-associated toxicity. Overall, 35% of patients in the TID, 27% of patients in the BID oxymetholone group and no patients in the placebo group had a greater than five times baseline increase for alanine aminotransferase during the double-blind phase of the study. CONCLUSIONS: Oxymetholone can be considered an effective anabolic steroid in eugonadal male and female patients with AIDS-associated wasting. The BID (100 mg/day) regimen appeared to be equally effective as the TID (150 mg/day) regimen in terms of weight gain, LBM and BCM and was associated with less, but still significant liver toxicity.

I only read the study you posted and not much from the link but wasn't this 5 fold increase after 16 weeks and not 4 weeks? I mean 5 times baseline is never good but 16 weeks is 2-4 times longer than most people would run drol.

 

[MantusJohn]

but 16 weeks is 2-4 times longer than most people would run drol.

No actually it's shorter than most people would run it .. in that case

It's longer than most BBers would run it, but this is a study on
HIV patients which is irrelevant here

 

[ItalianStalion9]

No actually it's shorter than most people would run it .. in that case

It's longer than most BBers would run it, but this is a study on
HIV patients which is irrelevant here

yeeah yeah that's what I mean, longer than most bodybuilders would use it. I know HIV or Anemia patients would use it much much longer.

I was just thinking that if only about a quarter of HIV patients using 100mg/day faced 5 fold liver value increases after 16 weeks, then people with healthy immune system, proper diets, and workout regimes are only using 50-100mg/day for only 4-6 weeks with breaks in-between then it really can't be THAT bad for your liver. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere, maybe here, that liver damage is compounding too.

Not that I'd ever try it, but given this info, theoretically would it even be THAT insane to run 50mg/day for 4 weeks on and then 4-6 weeks off year-round? (in respect to liver health only??)

 

[thatbloke]

This is a study on HIV patients not healthy BBers.

I don't think that is what he is asking for

hes asking for a comparisent of alcohol vs oral steroids on healthy bodybuilders

its very unlikely to find a study on that

u can look at the study on the HIV patients liver values as an indicator for evidence on oral AAS toxity on the liver

 

[thatbloke]

I only read the study you posted and not much from the link but wasn't this 5 fold increase after 16 weeks and not 4 weeks? I mean 5 times baseline is never good but 16 weeks is 2-4 times longer than most people would run drol.

4 weeks showed 23% patients had a 5 fold increase for the guys who ran 150mg drol daily,

but yes the entire study was over 16 weeks in total

 

[thebrick]

Very sorry to hear about your good friend M. I hope his last days are at least comfortable.

Moderation in all things pays off in the end.

 

[SIR-LOIN]

Thanks Mickey. I'm sure it had little impact at this point, but I found out he started back drinking a couple months ago. Just bad stuff, hopefully others will learn from it.

 

[Steve123]

I wonder if there's any documented comparisons of the impact on the liver from AAS vs. alcohol? I have a good friend who has been a heavy drinker for prob 25 years (he's 43) at home now dying from cirrhosis, prob 1 - 2 weeks to live. Made me wonder if moderate to heavy chronic aas usage is worse.... Say blasting at least half the year with more than a gram a week, cruising at say 200mg / week? I know there are other factors such as orals or not, diet etc. But generally speaking, which is worse? I'm thinking alcohol is worse, dont hear much about bbers checking out due to liver probs.

Well, I can tell you this. I'm a heavy hitter. When I have periods of drinking, I drink like a Cowboy! My typical night, not even a big one, would be about 8-12 beers and 4-5 shots of 101 proof Burbon. So...I did this fairly religiously from about September last year until just after Christmas. I got my blood work done in January...Liver was A.O.K. However, back a few years ago, I ran Superdrol without a Liver aid, and my liver was pretty hot! Nothing that the Doc got in a twist about at the time but noteworthy and he wanted to keep tabs on it. The only reason he didn't take further measures was because I came clean on the gear use and he figured we would wait it out a bit.

Now, caveat, I don't drink like this all year. I'll go a few months being a wreck and then stop for a few completely.

Just anecdotal but my experience is that Oral AAS is far worse than Alcohol. I will not use Orals anymore. I figure I'm already taking a risk with booze and it's not killing me yet. Don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth.