There's no debate.
Whole protein > isolated EAA > isolated BCAA which are shit
Studies have shown aminos to be inferior to whole proteins, and it makes perfect sense. Whey is a complete protein and the only protein supplement I spend my money on.Just wanted to post this FB post here in case someone is interested. I thought the ensuing discussion was interesting, it has highly regarded nutrition experts Alan Aragorn, Lyle McDonald (whom I love), Schoenfeld, Stuart Phillips etc agreeing that BCAAs are useless, possibly counterproductive (!). They see no situation where they would be warranted based on the current scientific evidence. Not in low cal diets, not preworkout, intraworkout, postworkout, between meals, never
Lyle summed it up like this:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156524627294992&id=727634991
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Studies have shown aminos to be inferior to whole proteins, and it makes perfect sense. Whey is a complete protein and the only protein supplement I spend my money on.
BCAA aren't shit, that's a ridiculous comment for that man to make. Unilateral ingestion of BCAA is shit. However, seldom do individuals consume 'just' BCAA. They are instead usually consumed in close proximity to a wholefood protein source. In this way, the BCAA serve to fortify the wholefood meal.
Take a look at the discussion in the FB thread if you didn't. Those guys in the thread are some of the most highly regarded nutrition experts when it comes to nutrition as it relates to athletes. Some are published scientists. They simply can't see the usefulness of BCAA supplements, whether "to fortify meals" or otherwise, based on all available research thus far.
Lyle, who made that comment, is extremely knowledgeable, even those who hate his personality always acknowledge it so whatever he says is very very rarely ridiculous. I have pretty much never seen him proven wrong, very highly regarded dude. Of course there is the argument that scientists don't know shit when it comes to athletes and athletes instinctively know "things" which science hasn't proven yet. Maybe, sometimes this has been the case, but that is something else. They are talking about scientific evidence thus far.
They certainly have considered that BCAAs or Leucine aren't taken in isolation.
The difference is, guys like Eric Helms, Schoenfeld, etc are or were bodybuilders. They have a vested interest in finding what causes the most muscle growth in individuals and want every advantage they can get. They're not just some guys in a lab doing a bullshit study. If they can get a benefit from a supplement they'll take it. So they have no reason besides the evidence to be against isolated aminos.
Everyone can have their own opinion, doesn't matter to me, I think people should try a lot of these things on their own anyway and see what they think. But at the end of the day a lot of these researchers are just like us when it comes to the gym.
Most of the studies showing positive results for BCAAs are in fasted people who are severely protein-deficient in their regular diet. If you haven't eaten protein in 24h, guess what BCAA will have a positive effect. That doesn't mean that eating a whole protein source instead won't yield superior results.
We can conclude from these two studies that BCAA infusion not only fails to increase the rate of muscle protein synthesis in human subjects, but actually reduces the rate of muscle protein synthesis and the rate of muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state was not reversed to an anabolic state in either study.
Dave Palumbo things taking in lots of bcaa's or even l-leucine throughout the day throws off the ratios. He believes in using aminos but mainly around training and in certain amounts.
Milos Sarvec believes in amino supplementation throughout the day.
Obviously many have strong opinions but those 2 guys I find most intriguing and they obviously contradict oneanother.
Personally, I 100% notice a difference when taking in either BCAA's or EAA's products (or a mix of the two) throughout the day. I build more muscle and simply look better.
I need to start doing it again consistently. I have Olimp EAA's and BCAA's so I will do a mix of the 2 (1 scoop bcaa's and 2 scoops eaa's). That way I will have a good balance but higher bcaa's (especially l-leucine) and drink them between meals.
I recommend guys try it especially if you are dieting. It's important to stay hydrated so this covers all bases especially for guys who get bored drinking plain water.
Just want to add there is no need to mega dose anything though. Have a good balance of aminos with approx 5g leucine at a time and you should be gtg. Drink 2 of those per day with your standard meals and hopefully you notice a difference.
I don't know about that
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0184-9
Certainly seems like the common idea of using bcaas before morning fasted cardio is a poor idea. EAA or complete protein would be better, if you believe in the idea of some type of fasted or semi-fasted cardio being superior for fat loss, which itself is suspect.
elvia I am conjuring you up through my magic circle for your current sentiments on bcaas vs eaa's. Bcaas are so cheap , similar to glutamine, that while I am on insulin, I think they are also worth taking in addition to EAAs? Interesting facts on milos and palumbo thank you. I also see guys like Luki who have mentioned microdosing slin through the day in case incorporation of huge meal.
can you please recommend your preferred BCAA and EAA choices, amazon has tons of bcaa but only a few EAA and they are weak in doses it appears.
Perhaps go old school and just buy bulk raw unflavored raws and mix with koolaid packet? or focus on l-leucine (not iso-leucine I Read) + bcaas.
ty elvia I appreciate your valued feedback.
I have to drink 90% of my caloric intake. I have a haunting ongoing case of GERD. I have to take a grip of digestive enzymes etc. I also just realized my diet is low in sodium. Any suggestions are welcome brother