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My Experience Stacking HGH and T4 *NOT What you would Think

shadow1

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Just wanted to let people know my short lived experience with T4. I was doing alot or research about this topic as I have been feeling a little groggy during the day. Im currently running 6iu Hgh per day / split doses and nothing else.

Tried T4 for a month starting my dose at 25mcs for the first 4 days, 50mcgs for 6 days, then 75mcgs.

After about 6 days, no groggy feeling during the day, and had that heat feeling that I actually like. So, I felt like hey... I might be able to knock of a couple % of body fat.

I noticed that I started getting a little heavy on the scale and in my cardio. Huh, started to gain a little weight... hmm Calories was about the same, same diet, protein... maybe b/c I ate those extra almonds that I love. Whatever.
Kept putting on more weight, gained another 4 pounds in a week... I dont feel water retention???

F*** Im putting on FAT!!! Looking for a pinch to pin my hgh and grabbed a bunch off my flank... WTF!!

Went to my computer and starting looking for anyone that has had similar experiences and I found alot of people that have gained fat from T4. Granted, the experiences I have read online were not from people taking HGH... but still... ITS A REPORTED SIDE EFFECT from many people.

Who would have thought this!

I did not get blood work to get my thyroid level's checked before I stacked the T4. I didn't really need it but used my grogginess as an excuse to try it.

So beware trying this stack, and remember.. with t4.. the half life is anywhere from 5 to 10 days.

I would be curious to hear if anyone has had this type of effect.
 

IronLion2

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Do we have any real evidence t4's needed WHEN NOT hypothroidial from aas/gh use? I always see that fucking anthony roberts article being parroted but thats about it
 

muscle96ss

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Just wanted to let people know my short lived experience with T4. I was doing alot or research about this topic as I have been feeling a little groggy during the day. Im currently running 6iu Hgh per day / split doses and nothing else.

Tried T4 for a month starting my dose at 25mcs for the first 4 days, 50mcgs for 6 days, then 75mcgs.

After about 6 days, no groggy feeling during the day, and had that heat feeling that I actually like. So, I felt like hey... I might be able to knock of a couple % of body fat.

I noticed that I started getting a little heavy on the scale and in my cardio. Huh, started to gain a little weight... hmm Calories was about the same, same diet, protein... maybe b/c I ate those extra almonds that I love. Whatever.
Kept putting on more weight, gained another 4 pounds in a week... I dont feel water retention???

F*** Im putting on FAT!!! Looking for a pinch to pin my hgh and grabbed a bunch off my flank... WTF!!

Went to my computer and starting looking for anyone that has had similar experiences and I found alot of people that have gained fat from T4. Granted, the experiences I have read online were not from people taking HGH... but still... ITS A REPORTED SIDE EFFECT from many people.

Who would have thought this!

I did not get blood work to get my thyroid level's checked before I stacked the T4. I didn't really need it but used my grogginess as an excuse to try it.

So beware trying this stack, and remember.. with t4.. the half life is anywhere from 5 to 10 days.

I would be curious to hear if anyone has had this type of effect.

What may possibly happening is this: Sometime the body under certain conditions(i.e. high stress) will convert to the right-handed version of T3. This is the mirror image of the normal left-handed version and the body only recognizes the left-handed version. So this right-handed T3 is inactive. What makes it even worse is that it will compete and bind to the receptors that the left-handed binds to and thus there are less sites for the active T3 to bind to.

This is just a shot in the dark, but could also very well be whats going on. On a blood panel you can check for reverse T3 and it will be high if that is in fact happening. If that is the case then you can just use T3 instead of T4 and you eliminate having to convert T4 to T3.
 

shadow1

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What may possibly happening is this: Sometime the body under certain conditions(i.e. high stress) will convert to the right-handed version of T3. This is the mirror image of the normal left-handed version and the body only recognizes the left-handed version. So this right-handed T3 is inactive. What makes it even worse is that it will compete and bind to the receptors that the left-handed binds to and thus there are less sites for the active T3 to bind to.

This is just a shot in the dark, but could also very well be whats going on. On a blood panel you can check for reverse T3 and it will be high if that is in fact happening. If that is the case then you can just use T3 instead of T4 and you eliminate having to convert T4 to T3.

You make a good point. Maybe in the future, ill try T3.
 

MyNameIsJeff

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That is a ridiculously low dose of T4 for someone your size, what did you expect would happen. My guess would be that you barely replaced some of your endogenous T4 with that dose and left total blood values unchanged.

In any case, if it's legit pharma T4, then the exogenous T4 is no more or less likely to be converted to reverse T3 than the endogenous T4. So that wouldn't be an explanation for your symptoms either.

T4 does not make you fat guys. It might fail to increase metabolism in a small number of people. But it will not make your metabolism worse.
 

prodaf

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people who took T4 with HGH didn t seen any benefice and stopped it
 

rmtt

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That is a ridiculously low dose of T4 for someone your size, what did you expect would happen. My guess would be that you barely replaced some of your endogenous T4 with that dose and left total blood values unchanged.

In any case, if it's legit pharma T4, then the exogenous T4 is no more or less likely to be converted to reverse T3 than the endogenous T4. So that wouldn't be an explanation for your symptoms either.

T4 does not make you fat guys. It might fail to increase metabolism in a small number of people. But it will not make your metabolism worse.

I agree. Without blood work you are just guessing. I'm just slight to barely moderate hypo and it takes 200mcg daily to keep my levels in line. Been at that dose for 20+ years and I get tested specifically for it at least twice a year.
 

bieberhole69

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FWIW, the STARTING dose for replacement therapy is 1.6mcg/kg (a 140lb individual would take 100mcg/daily, for instance). 50mcg is the starting dose for elderly patients. Bloodwork is then assessed every 4 weeks to titrate to needed dose.
 

OutToLunch

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FWIW, the STARTING dose for replacement therapy is 1.6mcg/kg (a 140lb individual would take 100mcg/daily, for instance). 50mcg is the starting dose for elderly patients. Bloodwork is then assessed every 4 weeks to titrate to needed dose.



What would be an effective dose for a 220-230lbs individual for fat loss?

My thyroid level was low-normal and my endo has no issues prescribing (synthroid) t4. But only 25mcg daily except weekends at 50mcg.

Would it be beneficial bumping daily dosage to 200mcg?
 

ChemJr.

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I started off at 125 with severe hypo with TSH value of 9 comma after a few months my TSH was down to 1.2 so the dosage was lowered to 100, two months later my TSH was almost zero so those have been lowered to 75 and I feel very good on it. All I need and as long as I don't eat like a pig I am not gaining weight like I was when I went hypo. This is Endocrinology after all, so everyone is extremely different and will have different reactions. Bottom line you need to be seen every month or every other month with blood work to know what's going on in my opinion. Or you can keep playing with dosages until you find out what works but when it comes to Fat Loss I think there are much better ways to deal with it. Better diet, acetyl-l-carnitine green tea extract hoodia and other compounds like that, and exercise. Just my two cents.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Professional Muscle mobile app
 

bieberhole69

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What would be an effective dose for a 220-230lbs individual for fat loss?

My thyroid level was low-normal and my endo has no issues prescribing (synthroid) t4. But only 25mcg daily except weekends at 50mcg.

Would it be beneficial bumping daily dosage to 200mcg?

PLEASE ANYONE READING EITHER OF MY POSTS PAY ATTENTION: I DO NOT MEAN IN ANY WAY THAT ANYBODY SHOULD START OUT AT THE RECOMMENDED DOSAGES USED FOR HYPOTHYROIDISM AS THE SIDE EFFECTS CAN GET YOU IN SERIOUS TROUBLE--If you are going to use this drug without physician assistance I can't recommend it, but please use the old adage START LOW AND GO SLOW when dosing.

I'm not sure, as the drug has no indications or dosing available for that. A hypothyroid 220lb individual you mentioned would usually be started on 150 OR 175mcg/daily (100kg*1.6=160mcg, but only 150 / 175 tablets exist--although I suppose a physician could prescribe 150 and 25 and order you to take 1/2 of the 25 daily). With a few exceptions, maximum dosages are usually 200mcg/daily.

But again, these are hypothyroid dosages--for weight loss I really have no idea how one would go about doing this in fact, the black box warning for the drug is explicitly not to use the drug for weight loss because of larger doses having serious or even life-threatening toxicity--so I suppose the best way to do it for this method would have to be trial and error, sadly. Maybe bump the dose every few weeks until you get sides and symptoms of too much, then reduce the dose one step (12.5 or 25mcg is usually the step increment, depending on how much you're already using) and stay there as long as sides aren't there?

S/S for those not aware = tachycardia, palpitations, anxiety, headache, heat intolerance, hyperactivity, insomnia, irritability, tremors, difficulty breathing...and these are just the minor ones. I really can't recommend doing this--there are better ways to lose weight than subject yourself to possible complications from high-dose thyroid use--but for the sake of the discussion I'm putting this out there.

OutToLunch if it were ME--since you're already on it with endo oversight, I'd PERSONALLY talk to him and tell him you're having trouble losing weight and see if he'll bump you up to 50 daily for a few weeks to see if it helps. Then still yet again see if he'll bump dose if you're still having trouble, and so on and so forth. Be prepared for him to try and educate you on diet--you should go in knowing exactly what you're taking in and how you've been methodically decreasing intake / increasing expenditure with no results. I'm sure he'd be willing to work with you to get you where you want to be, and this would be the absolute safest route to go IMO. I absolutely would NOT recommend going straight to 200mcg/daily for your dose. That would likely be disastrous.

Sorry for the long and somewhat preachy post, but I wanted to make sure my first post wasn't taken as "start your dose here because 25 or 50mcg daily is for wimps" and instead meant to say that the doses being that low are rarely used for hypothyroidism outside of a certain patient population and that there should be plenty of headroom to safely and slowly increase the dose.
 
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rmtt

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I was started out at 100mcg....but this was when I was 16 years old. Over the years as I gained weight and got serious with lifting, my dose was titrated up by 25mcg at a time.

It eventually settled in at 175mcg. I checked this morning when I took it. I was on 200mcg for probably close to 20 years and thought that was were I was at still, but it was dropped back to 175mcg about two years ago.

But like I said, I have testing done twice a year specifically for this.
 

rmtt

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What are your usual tsh numbers on that dose?
Once I get back to my pc on Monday, I will check and update. I keep all my blood work files saved there.


Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
 

Massive G

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Don't know if this applies but had a total thyroidectomy about 10 years ago.
Had a huge enlarged thyroid nodules and goiter - told me it was follicular isolated cancer - had surgery to remove it and they told me it was benign and scanned me and negative each year.
I ended up tearing my patella from slipping on a stair a few months later - when in the hospital the doc checked my TSH and it was 50! Funny thing was I felt normal, endocrinologist had me on 175 mcg T4 which was obviously wasn't working. I went through hell the next 6 months of recovery till they got me adjusted to my current dose of 500 mcg. Most endos refuse to use T3 and T4 together.
I was on crutches for 16 weeks and very inactive and my weight dropped 40 lbs hair falling out dry skin, definitely hypo, when they got me to hyper I gained 50 lbs back-exact opposite of what the doc told me.
 

swim15

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Didn't really read responses but I think a few people pointed out the obvious that your dose is too low. T4 concerts as necessary although that doesn't take all factors into account. I've always errored on the high end of 200-300mcg a day to make sure there is more available for conversion rather than less
 

rmtt

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What are your usual tsh numbers on that dose?

My last labs showed a TSH value of .468. The scale for the test was .450-4.50 UIU/ML.

That was on 175mcg.
 

shadow1

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Well, I wanted to start slow to see how I would react to it. T4 wont make you fat?? Do a google search and you will read other people blogging about it. Many people had the same effect I had.

I do cardio every day.. just about and my diet didnt change. Maybe I could have kept increasing the dose, but I was worried the fat would pack on.. ya know.
 

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