Never drink a whey iso shake alone?

[iron lifter]

I remember Justin Harris talking about drinking whey isolate alone on Fouads Podcast. He said its better to eat real food, or make sure the
whey isolate has either fats or carbs or both in it. Drinking it alone will turn into glucose and can be verified by giving someone
who is going hypo a whey isolate to pull them out of it.

I now only drink whey in a blend of oats or peanut butter to delay gastric emptying. Just wondering what your guys thoughts on this. I know i
use to and lotta guys slam a shake in between meals or before bed, not sure if that's a bad thing now?

i guess post workout or before training fasted might be one exception?

 

[Gunsmith]

I highly doubt that whey alone will turn to glucose , I know it does definitely illicit a significant insulin response but I be that's more to the higher rate of digestion.

if his theory is true then drinking amino's would be pointless as well , you could just drink Gatorade right ??

before bed I'd prefer something like casein but that's because it digest so much slower , it keeps protein flowing longer , not because it doesn't turn to glucose.

 

[KillerStack]

There might be somewhat of a point to what he's saying but even a quick protein like whey is only digested at like less than 10 grams per hour. Even without slowing it down it does all the good stuff wrt protein synthesis etc. Probably not worth it to concern yourself with anything else than hitting your macros each day. Then again some believe micellar casein is way superior to whey in almost every respect.

 

[heavyhitter]

It’s not that the whey turns to glucose per se. It’s that whey iso on its own digests so quickly tbat your body can’t use all the protein that quicky so instead turns to gluconeogenisis which converts the protein to glucose. Taking fat or carbs slows down the digestion of the protein to the point that your body can utilize more of it without having to store it

 

[heavyhitter]

I highly doubt that whey alone will turn to glucose , I know it does definitely illicit a significant insulin response but I be that's more to the higher rate of digestion.

if his theory is true then drinking amino's would be pointless as well , you could just drink Gatorade right ??

before bed I'd prefer something like casein but that's because it digest so much slower , it keeps protein flowing longer , not because it doesn't turn to glucose.

Aminos are a smaller dose and are supposed to be used around training when your body can soak them up. You can utilize 10 grams of eaas, but not so much 50 grams of iso as quickly as they digest

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Any protein can turn into glucose if your body needs it.

 

[Rudygreg]

It’s not that the whey turns to glucose per se. It’s that whey iso on its own digests so quickly tbat your body can’t use all the protein that quicky so instead turns to gluconeogenisis which converts the protein to glucose. Taking fat or carbs slows down the digestion of the protein to the point that your body can utilize more of it without having to store it

Correct your body has the capability to turn fats, proteins, carbs into glucose via glycolysis. It's the quickest way to utilize as energy converts two pyruvate molecules into ATP.

 

[qbkilla]

If I just have a shake as a meal I usually eat some fruit with it to get carbs. Usually lunch is a metrx bar and apple. No idea if what Harris said is true but could make some sense, doubt it's wasted or treated like carbs. Isolate digests faster than concentrate, but I don't think it's that overly fast, or is it???

 

[juggy38]

Gluconeogensis is demand driven, not supply driven. If your not severely glycogen depleted, you body isn’t going to just turn whey into glucose for shits and giggles.

And yes, if your depleted and drink whey, there will be gluconeogenisis. But not anymore so than eating a hunk of chicken, it will just be more rapid as whey is digested faster, but even then there is a rate limiter of how fast your body can do that process. It is very energy inefficient and your body will only do the bare minimum because it is so wasteful

 

[Gunsmith]

Gluconeogensis is demand driven, not supply driven. If your not severely glycogen depleted, you body isn’t going to just turn whey into glucose for shits and giggles.

And yes, if your depleted and drink whey, there will be gluconeogenisis. But not anymore so than eating a hunk of chicken, it will just be more rapid as whey is digested faster, but even then there is a rate limiter of how fast your body can do that process. It is very energy inefficient and your body will only do the bare minimum because it is so wasteful

i thought that gluconeogensis was a very inefficient process that's was only taking place when the body was in need of glucose and I've read that it really only does it enough to replace glycogen stores that drive liver and brain function.
i think Scott Stevenson talked about this a few times as well as Milos Sarcev

 

[heavyhitter]

Gluconeogensis is demand driven, not supply driven. If your not severely glycogen depleted, you body isn’t going to just turn whey into glucose for shits and giggles.

And yes, if your depleted and drink whey, there will be gluconeogenisis. But not anymore so than eating a hunk of chicken, it will just be more rapid as whey is digested faster, but even then there is a rate limiter of how fast your body can do that process. It is very energy inefficient and your body will only do the bare minimum because it is so wasteful

Your body has no storage mechanism for protein, so if it’s not utilized, it has to be converted to glucose and stored, or shit out

 

[heavyhitter]

i thought that gluconeogensis was a very inefficient process that's was only taking place when the body was in need of glucose and I've read that it really only does it enough to replace glycogen stores that drive liver and brain function.
i think Scott Stevenson talked about this a few times as well as Milos Sarcev

The liver utilizes fructose as it’s primary file source

 

[iron lifter]

I highly doubt that whey alone will turn to glucose , I know it does definitely illicit a significant insulin response but I be that's more to the higher rate of digestion.

if his theory is true then drinking amino's would be pointless as well , you could just drink Gatorade right ??

before bed I'd prefer something like casein but that's because it digest so much slower , it keeps protein flowing longer , not because it doesn't turn to glucose.

aminos should really be drank intra workout. so that wouldn't be a problem. i drink a multi stage release whey now if i do drink it alone.

 

[iron lifter]

Gluconeogensis is demand driven, not supply driven. If your not severely glycogen depleted, you body isn’t going to just turn whey into glucose for shits and giggles.

And yes, if your depleted and drink whey, there will be gluconeogenisis. But not anymore so than eating a hunk of chicken, it will just be more rapid as whey is digested faster, but even then there is a rate limiter of how fast your body can do that process. It is very energy inefficient and your body will only do the bare minimum because it is so wasteful

this makes sense so in a calorie surplus it can be okay to have whey iso by itself or on a high day? but on a low carb day or deep deficit maybe avoid it alone?

 

[MR. BMJ]

Uhhhh......

Glucose-lowering effect of whey protein depends upon clinical characteristics of patients with type 2 diabetes

Whey protein (WP) intake has been shown to reduce postprandial glycemia. Majority of WP research in type 2 diabetes (T2DM) involved acute challenge or weight loss studies. It is not known if WP supplementation can provide sustained glucose lowering. Our ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Juggy mentioned it above, gluconeogenesis is demand driven. The more carbs you are eating throughout the day, the less demand for GNG to occur. Lower carb intake throughout the day, then there will be a higher demand for GNG. Whey is highly insulinogenic, and as shown in the study above, amongst other factors (increasing GLP-1), can actually lower BG levels.

 

[Kaladryn]

Any time you are in a negative nitrogen balance any protein you have digesting IS getting converted to glucose very quickly.

However, if you are in a negative nitrogen balance, and you don't have protein or carbs digesting, you are going to be converting protein from your muscles and organs into glucose, also very quickly. So eating protein and having it convert into glucose instead isn't as bad as the alternative.

This is why you don't eat protein alone, carbs are protein sparing.

Anytime you are not eating for a while or hungry you are probably going to be in a negative nitrogen balance.

 

[Kaladryn]

i thought that gluconeogensis was a very inefficient process that's was only taking place when the body was in need of glucose and I've read that it really only does it enough to replace glycogen stores that drive liver and brain function.
i think Scott Stevenson talked about this a few times as well as Milos Sarcev

With very few exceptions everyone is going through a stage of gluconeogenesis between meals and at night, during training also.

Note that excessive cortisol production (as happens during training) will force some gluconeogenesis to occur even with a calorie surplus.

Our bodies are VERY happy and efficient at performing gluconeogenesis and it is a totally natural energy mechanism.

Also, look at this way, protein that is not converted to glucose doesn't even have calories in it. 4 calories per gram only apply to protein that goes through gluconeogenesis.

 

[heavyhitter]

With very few exceptions everyone is going through a stage of gluconeogenesis between meals and at night, during training also.

Note that excessive cortisol production (as happens during training) will force some gluconeogenesis to occur even with a calorie surplus.

Our bodies are VERY happy and efficient at performing gluconeogenesis and it is a totally natural energy mechanism.

Also, look at this way, protein that is not converted to glucose doesn't even have calories in it. 4 calories per gram only apply to protein that goes through gluconeogenesis.

Exactly. If your body could utilize even 20 grams of the protein you eat every day to turn it into muscle, you’d gain 17 pounds of muscle every year. Clearly this is not happening so the rest is being burned off I’m the metabolic process, or stored as glucose

 

[heavyhitter]

Another reason I don’t drink whey on its own is it causes much more digestive distress this way. If I add some Greek yogurt, or a bit of olive oil, or some cream of rice this doesn’t happen as much

 

[Dugbet]

Your body has no storage mechanism for protein, so if it’s not utilized, it has to be converted to glucose and stored, or shit out

But the body uses a lot of protein for normal maintenance processes, and for us, for muscle building and regeneration ... so it's hard for you to store or shit up if your calorie intake is adjusted.

Normally, the fear of neoglycogenesis comes when someone is on a severe diet consuming a lot of protein and little fat and carbohydrates. It's no problem, your fat loss should not be hampered.