Palumbo Diet

[Steve123]

Usually I try to just observe on this particular board but I have a question to which I thought you guys might have insight.

I'm on a CKD diet with timed carbs but I was reading about Palumbo's cutting diet.

I know his diets vary and are customized but the basis seems to be 60/30/10 P/F/C.

Wouldn't this just cause Glucogenysis (sp? sorry)? In otherwords, would you ever hit Ketosis with P outweighin F so much? Sorry if this is a Dumbass Question but it seems to fly in the face of all things Keto that I've read.

I did search here and elsewhere but this specific question does not seem to be addressed in any detail. Insight would be valuable. Thanks

 

[Copenhagen]

From what i know about it when your body is in ketosis, it will preferentially burn the fats for energy and save the carbs for its absolute needs. I'm not sure where in there your finding that protein plays a role.

 

[doug1]

the amount of carbs is still so low that your ketogenic state should still be attained, the degree may not be as deep as the high fat diet as the body will strip away aminos from the protein and use as fuel, which many would consider a negative thing since the muscles are also comprised of aminos

 

[LEX]

you won't ever see ketosis with that much protien. can you still loose fat yes but you wont be in ketosis

 

[doug1]

this is the issue with a diet that is so high in protein, the body will use protein for energy which is a negative thing for a bodybuilder. usually a diet needs to consist of either high fat/low carb or high carb/low fat with protein being in moderation for both cases. some people respond better to one over the other, typically a bodybuilder is going to benefit best and function best from the high carb/low fat diet as the muscles need to have fuel for workouts and replenish the glycogen. guys who do the low carb thing typically complain of lack of pumps(low glycogen) and low energy levels as well as low natural testosterone levels if they are natural. many on this board prefer the low carb diet and do just fine. whatever someone chooses it must be sustainable for enough time to accomplish one's goals. I personally would rather fat loss take an additional amount of time if I can tolerate the process and not be miserable the whole time. So I love my carbs and having energy and feeling like a human being. I also have a pretty demanding job physically.

 

[b-boy]

this is the issue with a diet that is so high in protein, the body will use protein for energy which is a negative thing for a bodybuilder. usually a diet needs to consist of either high fat/low carb or high carb/low fat with protein being in moderation for both cases. some people respond better to one over the other, typically a bodybuilder is going to benefit best and function best from the high carb/low fat diet as the muscles need to have fuel for workouts and replenish the glycogen. guys who do the low carb thing typically complain of lack of pumps(low glycogen) and low energy levels as well as low natural testosterone levels if they are natural. many on this board prefer the low carb diet and do just fine. whatever someone chooses it must be sustainable for enough time to accomplish one's goals. I personally would rather fat loss take an additional amount of time if I can tolerate the process and not be miserable the whole time. So I love my carbs and having energy and feeling like a human being. I also have a pretty demanding job physically.

once in ketosis you actually feel better! and what do you call high protein? any athlete should shoot for at least 1 gram of protein per lb of BW and add with that .5 grams of fat (EFA's) per lb of BW and you will burn fat as your primary fuel source, too low a fat intake is where most fail at a ketogenic diet and type of fat used makes a huge difference also.

everyone's body is different and you must decide what works best for you, but when trying something at least do it the right way so you can decide what works and what doesn't, and thats where people give the palumbo diet a bad name cause they don't follow the diet to the T and thus don't get the results they should.

 

[doug1]

.what do you call high protein? any athlete should shoot for at least 1 gram of protein per lb of BW and add with that .5 grams of fat (EFA's) per lb of BW and you will burn fat as your primary fuel source, too low a fat intake is where most fail at a ketogenic diet and type of fat used makes a huge difference also.

.

I would say based on total caloric consumption, if protein constitutes the majority of the total calories then this could be a problem with the body stripping down protein for fuel

 

[Moen]

Di pasquale said to always keep fat at at least 40% of total calories, someone else can do the math on this format but it looks to be under that mark yes

 

[big nasty]

The Palumbo Diet starts at 50/40/10. From there he adjusts his clients as need be.

 

[RONJON]

I think the diet or at least alot of discussion used to be up at MD before Palumbo get booted out..maybe someone has a link to it? It would be interesting to look at for sure.

 

[phatkid77]

1. this isn't high protein, 1 gm per LB?
2. I've lost 25lbs in 4wks, my friend 19lbs IN 6 DAYS!!!!
3. Thread on MD is by belchman in no bull I believe

Phats

 

[Deus ex machina]

I think the diet or at least alot of discussion used to be up at MD before Palumbo get booted out..maybe someone has a link to it? It would be interesting to look at for sure.

The premise of the diet is high protein (about 1- 1 1/2 gram per pound), moderate fat (about 1/2 g per lb) and low low carbs (no direct sources of carbs). During this diet, the brain goes into ketosis (it uses ketone bodies for energy-- fats) and thus the energy requirements by the body can almost all be supplied by fats (which you'll be taking in plenty of). The only activity that uses carbs will be the weight workout which may use 40grams per workout. You will get these 40g indirectly through the foods you'll be eating. As a backup, the cheat meal you'll be having once per week will provide a storehouse of glycogen (glucose) in case of emergency. So, you see, very little gluconeogenesis in the liver will be occurring. If we keep cortisol low (by
restricting STIMULANTS) we'll ensure that muscle is spared!

HAVE YOUR CHEAT MEAL ON THE SAME DAY EVERY WEEK, last meal of the
day so you dont cheat again.

Fiber helps burn fat! Everyone should take fiber 2x per day. Fiber actually helps increase the absorption of calcium.
When following my diet plan (which includes getting your brain into ketosis), there can be NO starchy carbs eaten!



For a 200lb man:

MEAL #1
5 whole eggs (make sure to buy OMEGA-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good OMEGA-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the Omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6
SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

For a 250lb+ man:
Meal 1 6 whole Omega-3 eggs
Meal 2 8oz chicken with 1/2 cup raw almonds
Meal 3 50g whey with 2 tablespoons all natural peanutbutter
Meal 4 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil
Meal 5 50 g whey with 2 tablespoon PB
Meal 6 6 whole eggs

Remember, it takes 3-4 days to get into a strong ketosis where your brain is using ketone bodies (fats), instead of carbs, for energy. Be patient.

Many times I'll switch to an alternatiing diet where one day it will be protein/fat......then another protein/vegetables (very little fat). The great thing about the body and fat is that ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS can be stored in the muscle for several days, up to 2 weeks......therefore, once an adequate storehouse of Essential Fats are built up, the body can be "tortured" a little and it still won't give up muscle (that's assuming you're still taking in adequate protein. Protein can't be stored).

1oz almonds equals 6g carbs (2 of those grams are fiber) and 2oz equals 12g of carbs.

With the beef meal (any fatty protein meal), you should have the green salad with 1 tablespoon of Olive or Mac oil INSTEAD of the nuts. Only eat the nuts with the LEAN PROTEIN MEAL (chicken, turkey, lean fish)

The best fat sources come from the essential fatty acids-- Omega-6 and Omega-3's. Most of us get plenty of Omega-6s from cooking oils, ect..........however the Omega-3's are harder to get. I recommend WHOLE OMEGA-3 EGGS, FaTTY FISHS like SALMON and SWORDFISH and TUNA and MACKEREL, ALMONDS and WALNUTS have some OMEGA-3's (as well as OMEGA-6s). ANother great fat source is MONOUNSATURATES such as EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL and MACADAMIA NUT OIL.....they aren't essential but they are great for the metabolism (great source of energy) and they are extremely good for your heart.

You're not getting any indirect sources of carbs (just from the 1 spoonful of PB.... you may want to have at least one 1/3cup nuts meal. Remember, Olive or Macadamia nut oil is predominantly a MONOUNSATURATED FAT (good for the heart, but not essential)........ the nuts, and fish oil have the essential fats in them. Also, with regard to FLAX SEED OIL, the OMEGA-3 Fatty Acids found in them (alpha-linolenic acid) has a very poor conversion to DHA and EPA (Essential Omega-3 intermediates) in the HUMAN........therefore, you're much better off taking in FISH OILS (that already contain DHA/EPA) than FLAX SEED OIL.

Once fat loss slows, I always increase cardio first, then I increase the amount of fat burners (clen, cytomel, lipolyze).........After those other methods are exhausted, only then, do I play with the diet.

Always eat BEFORE lifting........never BETWEEN lifting and cardio.
Artificial Sweetners:
The artificial sweetener itself (eg. aspartame, sucralose) wont cause a problem. It's what some companies complex it with. For example, EQUAL and SPLENDA combine their aspartame and sucrolose with 1g of maltodextrin........whereas, in diet drinks, they don't do that. So, diet drinks are okay, SPLENDA and EQUAL must be used in moderation (STEVIA BALANCE is fine though since they use inulin fiber instead of maltodextrin

Forget using:
-MCT's are a waste when you're dieting. If you're gonna use FATS for an energy source, they might as well serve a function in the body. MCTs are useless. They can only serve as a source of energy!
-Arginine is not going to do anything. It will DO something; just not dramatic.

Cardio:
CARDIO should be performed at a low intensity (under 120bpm heartrate). This will ensure that you use FAT as a fuelsource since as your heartrate increase, carbohydrates begin to become the preferred fuel of choice for the body. When on a low carb diet, you're body will break down muscle and turn that into carbs. Remember, Fat CANNOT be changed into carbs. Therefore, for bodybuilding, the rule of cardio should be LONG DURATION, LOW INTENSITY

never do less than 20 min per session

The BOTTOM LINE is that low intensity cardio (while you might need more of it) ensures that fat is utilized and muscle is spared (especially while on my high protein/moderate fat/low carb diety).

Do you feel the treadmill is better for cardio, or is the bike(stationary or recumbent) just as good? As long as the intensity is LOW, it doesn't matter which piece of equipment you use

Q&A:
Q: Is gluconeogenesis inevitable in your diet?
Dave Palumbo: NO

Q: If so do I need to consume more than 1.5 grams of protein per lb of LBM so as not to lose muscle?
Dave Palumbo: The fat spares the protein....when the brain is in ketosis, the carbohydrate requirements are very very low.

Q: How much (percentage) of my protein intake would be turned into glucose (gluconeogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: Very little (maybe 10%)

Q: What do you think of submersion in cold water as a means of burning bodyfat (thermogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: HOCUS POKUS!

Q: How about drinking lots of cold water (I think this was even suggested by Elligton Darden) to help lose bodyfat?
Dave Palumbo: RIDICULOUS

Q: Do you think drinking lots of Green Tea is beneficial to fat loss?
Dave Palumbo: Somewhat helpful.

Q: How much is the ideal dosage of Omega 3 for a 220 lb. individual ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to take in about 9g per day

Q: How many Tbs of peanut butter could I have instead of 1/2 cup of cashewnuts?
Dave Palumbo: 2 tablespoons, two tablespoons of Peanut Butter contains 190 calories and 16 grams of fat (so 1.5 tablespoon equals about 12 grams fat) ...whereas......... 2oz (1/3 cup) almonds (about 40 almonds) = 12g fat

Q: I want to add that if I cant find the omega eggs here locally. Can I use international egg whites and just take an omega supplement?
Dave Palumbo: You can get away with 5 whole eggs (regular ones) once a day........not a big deal. You'll be burning up all that fat anyway.

Q: Whats the max cups # of coffee ( no sugar ) can consume on Dave's diet ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to limit to 2 cups per day.......I realize that towards the end of the diet you may need more to help you get through the day.

Q: If you cook tilapia in macadamon nut oil?do you coun't the oil as your fat for that meal! Depends how much you use.
Dave Palumbo: If you just grease the pan with it, no!

Q: what is the protein,carb and fat ratio for offseason
Dave Palumbo: 50% Protein, 25% fat, 25% carbs

Q: and the ratio for contest prep.
Dave Palumbo:60% protein, 30% fat, 10% carbs

Here ^.

 

[muscledoc1]

This is the correct formula:

0.25P(protein)xLBM+0.085F(fats)xLBM eaten every 2.5-3 hours.

 

[Designbuilt]

1. this isn't high protein, 1 gm per LB?
2. I've lost 25lbs in 4wks, my friend 19lbs IN 6 DAYS!!!!
3. Thread on MD is by belchman in no bull I believe

Phats

Well, that's very good Phatkid, but in your friend's case it is very likely water being loss from the low carb diet.

Keep in mind that carbs maintain water in the muscles as well. How does the weight loss look in the mirror?

Definately keep us posted tough.

 

[RONJON]

Here ^.

Thanks bro

 

[PoptartPsycho]

1. this isn't high protein, 1 gm per LB?
2. I've lost 25lbs in 4wks, my friend 19lbs IN 6 DAYS!!!!
3. Thread on MD is by belchman in no bull I believe

Phats

That is interesting. However, I would suspect 25lbs would be mostly body weight and not just a majority of fat. I could be wrong though.

 

[thundergod]

For the first 2 weeks on a Keto type diet, the majority of the weight lost will be water.(depending on your diet and how much water you retain.) After the first 2 weeks, things should slow to 1-2 pounds per week.

 

[hellraiser27]

this is the issue with a diet that is so high in protein, the body will use protein for energy which is a negative thing for a bodybuilder. usually a diet needs to consist of either high fat/low carb or high carb/low fat with protein being in moderation for both cases. some people respond better to one over the other, typically a bodybuilder is going to benefit best and function best from the high carb/low fat diet as the muscles need to have fuel for workouts and replenish the glycogen. guys who do the low carb thing typically complain of lack of pumps(low glycogen) and low energy levels as well as low natural testosterone levels if they are natural. many on this board prefer the low carb diet and do just fine. whatever someone chooses it must be sustainable for enough time to accomplish one's goals. I personally would rather fat loss take an additional amount of time if I can tolerate the process and not be miserable the whole time. So I love my carbs and having energy and feeling like a human being. I also have a pretty demanding job physically.

I am not a keyto expert. But I feel the exact same way.
I personally don't think I would actually need a keyto diet.
But cellular respiration uses glucose. The quickest way to glucose is simple carbs. The body uses simple carbs first for energy. Its an accepted fact in the process of cellular respiration. Its a chemical fact that it takes more ATP(cellular energy) to break down fats and protein to glucose than carbs.
I have never been on a keyto diet but this just seems like common sense.

 

[phatkid77]

correct, i wish it was all fat, but alas it is not...but i will take the weight eitherway....much easier for hockey..lol, and i will keep updated

phats

 

[NPCS FINEST]

my friend 19lbs IN 6 DAYS!!!!
Phats

Wow...now thats way to fast to lose 19 lbs inless that ALOT of water