Proof (unsubstantiated) of tren's negative effects on the kidneys

[Tyler Durden]

If you remember from past posts, after a life insurance exam found protein in my urine, I went for a biopsy and was diagnosed with FSGS (focal segmental glomerularsclerosis), a condition where there is scarring of the renal glomerus which allows protein to leak into the urine. Recently this condition has been tentatively linked to steroid use (see article below).

For treatment I have been prescribed an ACE inhibitor as I only have a mild form and I get regular screening to measure the amount of protein in the urine. 6 months ago, I was on a relatively high dose test and masteron cycle and my protein content was around 500mg. 2 months ago, I was off-cycle for several weeks and my protein content was 400mg. After that test, I started a test e/tren e cycle and a week ago, my test showed 1700mg of protein (over 400% increase). Based on my analysis of my lifestyle and supplementation, I can come to no other conclusion that that it is the tren which is responsible for the increase.




Development of Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis after Anabolic Steroid Abuse
Leal C. Herlitz*, Glen S. Markowitz*, Alton B. Farris, Joshua A. Schwimmer,, Michael B. Stokes*, Cheryl Kunis, Robert B. Colvin and Vivette D. D’Agati*
* Departments of Pathology and
Medicine, Columbia University, College of Physicians and Surgeons, New York, New York;
Department of Medicine, Lenox Hill Hospital, New York, New York; and
Department of Pathology, Massachusetts General Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts


Correspondence: Dr. Vivette D. D’Agati, Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, Department of Pathology, VC14-224, 630 West 168th Street, New York, NY 10032. Phone: 212-305-7460; Fax: 212-342-5380; E-mail: [email protected]

Received for publication April 28, 2009. Accepted for publication September 17, 2009.

Anabolic steroid abuse adversely affects the endocrine system, blood lipids, and the liver, but renal injury has not been described. We identified an association of focal segmental glomerulosclerosis (FSGS) and proteinuria in a cohort of 10 bodybuilders (six white and four Hispanic; mean body mass index 34.7) after long-term abuse of anabolic steroids. The clinical presentation included proteinuria (mean 10.1 g/d; range 1.3 to 26.3 g/d) and renal insufficiency (mean serum creatinine 3.0 mg/dl; range 1.3 to 7.8 mg/dl); three (30%) patients presented with nephrotic syndrome. Renal biopsy revealed FSGS in nine patients, four of whom also had glomerulomegaly, and glomerulomegaly alone in one patient. Three biopsies revealed collapsing lesions of FSGS, four had perihilar lesions, and seven showed 40% tubular atrophy and interstitial fibrosis. Among eight patients with mean follow-up of 2.2 yr, one progressed to ESRD, the other seven received renin-angiotensin system blockade, and one also received corticosteroids. All seven patients discontinued anabolic steroids, leading to weight loss, stabilization or improvement in serum creatinine, and a reduction in proteinuria. One patient resumed anabolic steroid abuse and suffered relapse of proteinuria and renal insufficiency. We hypothesize that secondary FSGS results from a combination of postadaptive glomerular changes driven by increased lean body mass and potential direct nephrotoxic effects of anabolic steroids. Because of the expected rise in serum creatinine as a result of increased muscle mass in bodybuilders, this complication is likely underrecognized.

 

[chris250]

When I talked to my HRT clinic doctor in Peoria and talked about AAS, he said he would never use tren because there isnt enough human studied about it...Plus he said its one of the hardest products you could use on your body...side effects/damages to the kidneys/liver/ect

 

[Johnny Smiles]

And some people run it "just for fun."
at most it should be run for competition only and for SHORT durations...
or if you will be going to slaughter in 30 days. lol.
-JS

 

[chris250]

And some people run it "just for fun."
at most it should be run for competition only and for SHORT durations...
or if you will be going to slaughter in 30 days. lol.
-JS

I didnt feel like crap until I ran a longer acting tren...Thats when I noticeds all my heart issue's, and B.P. going thru the roof...Im sure that wasnt the only thing that got me in the hospital but im sure it didnt help...

 

[Johnny Smiles]

agreed.

I didnt feel like crap until I ran a longer acting tren...Thats when I noticeds all my heart issue's, and B.P. going thru the roof...Im sure that wasnt the only thing that got me in the hospital but im sure it didnt help...

tren e was a NIGHTMARE for me. even at what i consider a baby dose gave me sides out of this world. Tren a was not as bad but still had some hefty sides but i could run it at a FAR higher dose than tren e and not wanna crawl outta my skin
-JS

 

[Cosmicdrifter]

I'm trying to put all this together into something fact-based. Tren is reported to be the second most popular AAS behind Test. So that means hundreds of thousands of people (not everyone is a "bodybuilder," probably most are just trying to look as good as they can) have been using this substance since 1967.

I wonder what percentage of all people who have used Tren have developed FSGS. There are a couple of key phrases used in this document that are not clearly defined: "Steroid abuse" and "long-term abuse." We don't know the ages, medical histories, number of cycles, doses or any other information on these "bodybuilders."

Nor is there any language that discusses how these specific people were selected. To make the study reliable, you have to control for all these factors as well as have a control group of some kind. In the world of science, one study has little meaning;dozens of studies must yield similar results to validate an hypothesis.

If you look at all the data, chance would predict that among the hundreds of thousands of users of AAS that X% would get FSGS - and that group (unless contradicted by a sufficient number of studies) could be related to genetic, developmental, or environmental factors - exposure to chemicals at work, living in Nitro, WV, ect.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I'm trying to put all this together into something fact-based. Tren is reported to be the second most popular AAS behind Test. So that means hundreds of thousands of people (not everyone is a "bodybuilder," probably most are just trying to look as good as they can) have been using this substance since 1967.

I wonder what percentage of all people who have used Tren have developed FSGS. There are a couple of key phrases used in this document that are not clearly defined: "Steroid abuse" and "long-term abuse." We don't know the ages, medical histories, number of cycles, doses or any other information on these "bodybuilders."

Nor is there any language that discusses how these specific people were selected. To make the study reliable, you have to control for all these factors as well as have a control group of some kind. In the world of science, one study has little meaning;dozens of studies must yield similar results to validate an hypothesis.

If you look at all the data, chance would predict that among the hundreds of thousands of users of AAS that X% would get FSGS - and that group (unless contradicted by a sufficient number of studies) could be related to genetic, developmental, or environmental factors - exposure to chemicals at work, living in Nitro, WV, ect.

Agreed, the study found no concrete relationship, only a correlation, and I discussed this with my nephrologist. The development of FSGS could be just as well related to high protein diet, a large proportion of lean body mass, or other drugs in the bb's repetoir (gh, anti-e's, diuretics, etc.).

However, I think if there is a relationship between AAS and FSGS it is very possible many people have the condition and are unaware of it. Until your protein reaches the 10g mark, you are not in serious danger of kidney issues, and the only side one would notice is foam in their urine. And, if aas are cycled responsibly and blood pressure is kept in check, I think the disease would not progress even without medication. As noted in the study, once aas use was discontinued the levels of protein dropped.

What should also be noted is that protein will increase with dehydration and increased blood pressure, both of which are sides of tren. So while the chemical itself may not in and of itself be toxic to the kidneys, the sides caused by the chemical will certainly aggravate the condition.

 

[machola]

That doesn't prove tren directly caused the increased proteinuria. It could be due to increase in BP caused by tren. And many things could cause increase in BP which could then cause an increase in proteinuria. My 2 cents

 

[Cosmicdrifter]

I think your reasoning is sound even if it turns out to be incorrect or marginally correct. That is the thing about good thinkers - they extrapolate from observations. You are doing a good cause-effect diagnosis and using disparate pieces of information to create a picture of causation. You would make a good scientist.

I've had foam in my urine since 1966; never knew what caused it until a couple of years ago. I did not do my first cycle until 2004. I was a skinny little shit in 1966 and the fact that my body did not convert protein to muscle (cast it off) was a factor. Good luck with managing your symptoms.

 

[e6er]

I pissed blood and ejaculated blood when I took it. Fun times....

 

[Tyler Durden]

That doesn't prove tren directly caused the increased proteinuria. It could be due to increase in BP caused by tren. And many things could cause increase in BP which could then cause an increase in proteinuria. My 2 cents

Agreed. However, between the ACE inhibitor and the beta blocker scripts I have, my bp rarely exceeds 125/80.

On the other hand, since being on this tren e (which I must say is much more powerful that the homebrew I made years ago), I have definitiely noticed a far more pronounced diuretic effect. Despite drinking upwards of 2 gallons of liquid daily, I look dry as shit and I am getting dehydration cramps. Now dehydration by itself can cause proteinuria, and I suspect this, moreso than BP, may have contributed to the increased protein.

 

[Yohimbe33]

I pissed blood and ejaculated blood when I took it. Fun times....

Jesus, what were you using and what doses?

 

[e6er]

Jesus, what were you using and what doses?

I forgot what the dose was, not much. I ran Tren-E by itself (dumbass) and ran bromocriptine for prolactin suppression. Ended up with a nasty kidney and prostate infection

 

[cpesloco]

Agreed. However, between the ACE inhibitor and the beta blocker scripts I have, my bp rarely exceeds 125/80.

On the other hand, since being on this tren e (which I must say is much more powerful that the homebrew I made years ago), I have definitiely noticed a far more pronounced diuretic effect. Despite drinking upwards of 2 gallons of liquid daily, I look dry as shit and I am getting dehydration cramps. Now dehydration by itself can cause proteinuria, and I suspect this, moreso than BP, may have contributed to the increased protein.

Pm me the brand please, I am currently running E and its far from as good as the A HB I have had in the past.

regarding the original post, the info is good but incomplete, so many other factors and questions remain unanswered as other people have stated, but it's something to keep in mind.

 

[BIG EVIL42]

I pissed blood and ejaculated blood when I took it. Fun times....

Well, I can say with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that if any supp or drug EVER makes me "nut" blood......... That would be the end of it's use for me forever. You just don't mess with a man's "nut".

 

[Yohimbe33]

You guys are scaring me-just started my first tren ace cycle

 

[RESTLESS1]

i can say this.......in over 20 years of aas use ive ran most compounds out there at one time or another.......no drug has affected my bloodwork the way tren has......tren so far has not caused me any blood pressure problems......my blood pressure usually only elevates slightly at beginning of cycle.......tren and me have one of them love hate relationships......tren is the only drug ive ran and had noticable side effects......in moderate doses i experience everything from hairline issues,anxiety,cramps and mood swings......its hard even with these sides to stay away from it though......i make very quick gains with tren......strenghth is incredible.......it is the most potent compound ive ran......i have alot of respect for tren and only run it at about 400mg/week

 

[Tyler Durden]

You guys are scaring me-just started my first tren ace cycle

This wasn't the intention. Its just been internet legend since before my time that tren was harmful to the kidneys. Mostly this was speculation based on how urine gets darker when on tren (though this could easily be explained as simply a metabolite of the drug - b-complex vitamins cause the same issue).

For me, who has a pre-existing kidney issue and who gets tested regularly, I feel as though I have evidence that tren is hard on the kidneys. For someone with normal kidney function, tren's effects may never manifest into anything more than darker urine.

Also, the point of this was not to speculate that those who use tren or aas will inevitably develop FSGS, obviously that is not the case or there would be countless cases. Based on the study posted, the 10 bber's who were examined were initially presenting with proteinurea, it wasn't a random selection of aas users.

 

[booey]

There's a few trusted bros on another board that attribute their tren usage to their current heart problems. That was enough for me to completely ditch it forever. And I've used it a bunch of times and loved every minute of it.

 

[Yohimbe33]

I had blood tests done before this cycle and everything came back clean except the cholesterol was a bit on the high side-hdl was good and had improved a lot, but the ldl had gone up quite a bit (i had been clean for about 2 1/2 months)., Blood pressure is also good-115/75
So I will get some more tests done after and see were I'm sitting. I'm not going overboard-350mg tren ace per week for 6 weeks, test prop 800mg per week 6 weeks and 50mg/day dbol last 4 weeks.