Protein + carbs vs. protein + fats, low fat, keto, insulin, etc, THREAD

[mexbeast]

Of course

That's not what the study said. Metabolic tracers would follow the carbs through the process of de novo lipogenesis.

Yes absolutely keto can make you fat. The quickest I ever gained fat in my life was on keto, I was smoking weed and ate a family sized jar of peanut butter like three nights in a row. Pure immediate fat gain. There's nothing your body can do with excess fat other than store it as fat.

Of course You would get fat on that much peanut butter, a small can of it contains 98g of carbs, on top of all the fat

 

[whacked]

I vacillate between low carb and keto.

I have issues as these have never made a dent in my appetite lol

For me, higher amounts of protein is what satiates me, but also constipates me lol. Can’t win.

Regardless, I still feel great on keto or low carb vs a higher carb regimen - and will never go back.

 

[Tomgrass]

I vacillate between low carb and keto.

I have issues as these have never made a dent in my appetite lol

For me, higher amounts of protein is what satiates me, but also constipates me lol. Can’t win.

Regardless, I still feel great on keto or low carb vs a higher carb regimen - and will never go back.

The moment when you are adapted fullness start to increase. Mine is at the early stages- hope that few more months and I will be full as on 500 gram of carbs.

 

[qbkilla]

This is the correct statement, if you eat zero fat you won't gain any, but if you eat both together then you most likely store the fat, eating fat in absence of carbs will not result in fat storage. Eating both high fat and high carbs is the problem, think pepperoni pizza, ice cream, French fries and so on

Have there been studies that support this or is it more theory and anecdotal?

Hypothetically...I'm 185 I eat 3k my weight maintains

On paper if I bump to 3500 I should gain 1lb a week. In reality it will be more because I gain weight easily, specifically fat not muscle. But assume at this above maintenance intake I would normally gain 1lb a week.

Say I make this bump to 3500 all protein and fat, no carbs

1. Will I not gain weight since I won't store fat? I'm guessing no
2. Will I gain weight just less, because my body is less likely to store fat
3. Will I gain the same weight I would at 3500 just it will be all muscle because I won't store fat?
4. Will I gain less weight than expected, and it is more likely to be muscle and not far?
5. Another scenario?

I find this very interesting. Being someone who gains weight very easily by small bumps in calories, but gains fat much more quicker than muscle (despite trying every clean diet, nutrient timing, and abusing AAS at times) maybe it's people like me that would benefit most from an extreme approach (0 fat or 0 carbs).

If course it won't turn me into Ronnie Coleman but any benefit I'll take . Anyone fell free to chime in very good thread

 

[JITB]

This is the correct statement, if you eat zero fat you won't gain any, but if you eat both together then you most likely store the fat, eating fat in absence of carbs will not result in fat storage. Eating both high fat and high carbs is the problem, think pepperoni pizza, ice cream, French fries and so on

Susanne Sommers (Krissy from 3s company for all you youngsters) made a fortune trying to bring this to the masses.

I love Susanne. Thigh Master and an open love for Porn Movies.

 

[qbkilla]

The guys that do low carb I assume you use insulin or believe in it's benefits. Do you still use on carb up days? Or do you for the most part think the benefits of low carbs outweighs the benefits of using insulin? Or do you use carbs and slin when pushing for size and simply use keto when dieting or maintaining? Was thinking about this today.

 

[hevi-head]

This is the correct statement, if you eat zero fat you won't gain any, but if you eat both together then you most likely store the fat, eating fat in absence of carbs will not result in fat storage. Eating both high fat and high carbs is the problem, think pepperoni pizza, ice cream, French fries and so on

So are you saying if your maintenance calories are 2500 and you eat 4500 calories with extremely low fat you won’t add fat to your body?

 

[Bobik]

So are you saying if your maintenance calories are 2500 and you eat 4500 calories with extremely low fat you won’t add fat to your body?

yes crap. it's all about calories in / out. the composition of macros is individual.

 

[hevi-head]

yes crap. it's all about calories in / out. the composition of macros is individual.

I’m in the same thoughts with the calories in/calories out but The “yes crap” with quoting my post question is throwing me off lol.

 

[Bobik]

I’m in the same thoughts with the calories in/calories out but The “yes crap” with quoting my post question is throwing me off lol.

sorry lol. I understood where did you go with the thought

 

[qbkilla]

sorry lol. I understood where did you go with the thought

If someone can eat above maintenance and not gain fat by eating no fat then I'd that would be a game changer for people that never attempted. But I haven't seen anyone say you won't gain fat

 

[Cerberus777]

Eating above maintenance is needed to gain muscle. My issue is minimizing fat gain. I find carbs at workout only to be the best at this. I lead a very active lifestyle and my metabolism is still pretty slow. I stay leaner on keto. But once fat adapted I can use small amounts of carbs pre/during workouts or rides and I switch right back to fat burning when the carbs get burned.

 

[headtrainer]

Even protein consumed in excess causes a person to gain body fat. It’s mostly about overall caloric intake when determining how much body fat you’ll gain or lose. However, genetics plays a role as well. I believe in general that ectomorohs produce less insulin in response to eating carbs and endomorphs produce more insulin (a fat storage hormone) in response to eating carbs. Thus the reason some endomorphs find it easier to lose weight consuming less carbohydrates. That said, endomorphs can also gain fat consuming too many dietary fats even though their carb intake is low. That’s why I believe it’s mostly calories in vs. calories out.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Eating above maintenance is needed to gain muscle. My issue is minimizing fat gain. I find carbs at workout only to be the best at this. I lead a very active lifestyle and my metabolism is still pretty slow. I stay leaner on keto. But once fat adapted I can use small amounts of carbs pre/during workouts or rides and I switch right back to fat burning when the carbs get burned.

This is similar to what I do. I will eat carbs heavy around training (4 days a week). The idea is up the carbs huge through workouts1 hour pre, 1 hour intra, 2-3 hours post, 4-5 hours total. I'm not going to train flat and depleted. But once muscle is fed with a few units of R and 1000mg of metformin, bring my glucose down from 120+ to 60-80. Then carry on with proteins and fats, nuts, vegetables, fruits per usual. This has the effect of keeping my insulin sensitivity high, have powerful workouts, stay fat adapted, never go hypo.

But I'm very active. I just read where someone said they were too tired to get up to piss. Been there, done that. That's exactly what your body does at first until you adapt. It kills your metabolism. Your body knows, "No sugar? Let's put the brakes on this guy." When I start to feel like that now, which is rarely, I instinctively get on the stair climber to force my body to keep spending adipose tissue. Force your body to burn fat all day everyday. Lift heavy and keep yourself moving/active all day.

...oh, and the tren and GH helps too.

 

[Cerberus777]

This is similar to what I do. I will eat carbs heavy around training (4 days a week). The idea is up the carbs huge through workouts1 hour pre, 1 hour intra, 2-3 hours post, 4-5 hours total. I'm not going to train flat and depleted. But once muscle is fed with a few units of R and 1000mg of metformin, bring my glucose down from 120+ to 60-80. Then carry on with proteins and fats, nuts, vegetables, fruits per usual. This has the effect of keeping my insulin sensitivity high, have powerful workouts, stay fat adapted, never go hypo.

But I'm very active. I just read where someone said they were too tired to get up to piss. Been there, done that. That's exactly what your body does at first until you adapt. It kills your metabolism. Your body knows, "No sugar? Let's put the brakes on this guy." When I start to feel like that now, which is rarely, I instinctively get on the stair climber to force my body to keep spending adipose tissue. Force your body to burn fat all day everyday. Lift heavy and keep yourself moving/active all day.

...oh, and the tren and GH helps too.

Yeah, you can get body to adapt to just about anything. Insulin, GH and AAS definitely helps

 

[Sixfoottwo]

This is similar to what I do. I will eat carbs heavy around training (4 days a week). The idea is up the carbs huge through workouts1 hour pre, 1 hour intra, 2-3 hours post, 4-5 hours total. I'm not going to train flat and depleted. But once muscle is fed with a few units of R and 1000mg of metformin, bring my glucose down from 120+ to 60-80. Then carry on with proteins and fats, nuts, vegetables, fruits per usual. This has the effect of keeping my insulin sensitivity high, have powerful workouts, stay fat adapted, never go hypo.

But I'm very active. I just read where someone said they were too tired to get up to piss. Been there, done that. That's exactly what your body does at first until you adapt. It kills your metabolism. Your body knows, "No sugar? Let's put the brakes on this guy." When I start to feel like that now, which is rarely, I instinctively get on the stair climber to force my body to keep spending adipose tissue. Force your body to burn fat all day everyday. Lift heavy and keep yourself moving/active all day.

...oh, and the tren and GH helps too.

This does sound interesting. Do you have a day of eating on rest/training days written somewhere so I can look?

When wanting to gain muscle I do way better on high carb and very low fat but when cutting it doesn't do shit for me and I need to go low carb almost immediately.

 

[whacked]

Eating above maintenance is needed to gain muscle. My issue is minimizing fat gain. I find carbs at workout only to be the best at this. I lead a very active lifestyle and my metabolism is still pretty slow. I stay leaner on keto. But once fat adapted I can use small amounts of carbs pre/during workouts or rides and I switch right back to fat burning when the carbs get burned.

x2
Exact same here

 

[luki7788]

x2
Exact same here

you are very wrong - it does not work like that, to burn fat you have to be calorie deficit and no matter what you produce it (cut carbs ot fat or cardio / neat increase) to burn fat you must consume less kcal than you need

 

[whacked]

Sup Luki

Mehh not for n=1

& the millions out there including forward-thinking Functional Medicine metabolic disease MD’s and “legit” health Guru’s who espouse the same.

I understand (and of course concur) with the Law of Thermodynamics principles; but the body is much more sophisticated than that.

Diet impacts all sorts of hormones (not just insulin), so it’s much more complex than “calories in ~ calories out “ when downstream pathways are considered.

Even something as simple as protein being one macro that has a profound thermic effect is merely one example of many.

3,000 calories of fat free oyster crackers (carbs) will not produce the same weight loss or gain as 3,000 calories of a fat free Egg whites (protein) ~ not just based on the calories, but rather all of the other variables related to the macros’ impact in the body as it gets metabolized and assimilated.

I’m not much a debater. I shared “my” views and will leave it there.

Thanks

 

[Baphomet36]

Milk is the only food in nature that has carbs and fats together. In nature fat and carbs are not together in a food source..LOL

What? That’s not true. Nuts and avacado.