Relationship Advice: a) Chemistry; b) Communication

[oldfella]

Doesn't our DNA guide us to seek specific physical traits in a mate? I won't bore y'all with the list but it's an innate desire to reproduce with one who possesses the best genes for our children. I'm too lazy to clarify my argument.

It's not shallow, it's Darwin.

I now direct you to the "Ass Thread", only because there aint no Booby Thread. This lame site is too PC for my tastes.

And what is politicly incorrect about Boobies?

I say bring it!

 

[reebokrunner456]

OTH / oldfella – you both have some really good points and the more I think about it, the more I'm wondering if it is indeed the clinginess factor that is turning me off… normally, when it comes to guys, it's typically very black and white for me in terms of an attraction developing, (and the only 'maybes'/shades of grey are usually due to getting to the bottom of some pretty big unknowns, like: Is the guy set on having kids? Is he the cheater/player type that I want to avoid? Is he clingy? etc.). The clinginess factor is HUGE for me… I run from it as fast as I run from a cheater!

The part that is interesting/strange with the current guy is that he shows almost no clinginess when we are together in person… yet when we're apart, he acts VERY clingy with the CONSTANT texts. I've also never dealt with this kind of thing before in that: ALL other guys I've ever met or dated that would call/text me as frequently as the current guy had VERY clingy/needy personalities that would often get WORSE if we were in person (so that made things easy… I would run from them like the plague, LOL). Perhaps the thing that caught me off-guard and has me so on the fence with the current guy is that when we are in person, the clinginess is almost non-existent (or perhaps hidden/overshadowed by his personality)…

OTH, this – "A guy like that may feel he's 'dating up' so he needs that constant reassurance. Which can only mean one thing - you're 'dating down'. In other words, dating beneath you." – did not even occur to me, but as soon as I read your comment, all kinds of light bulbs went off in my head; like some of the little things he says OVER AND OVER. In particular: constantly admiring how I really have an awesome job and really have my shit together so to speak… (but so does he, so I don't know what he keeps saying this to me like it's such an amazing quality)… and the wording/patterns of his texts… EVERY MORNING, ALWAYS starting with something to the effect of, "good morning pretty girl" or "good morning beautiful lady", etc.

oldfella, same goes for some of your comments: "The whole into me into you thing has had plenty of people confused and wondering just what it is about that person that has me so interested. I don't think you are being shallow, just acting on some of your basic instincts. Now this guy and his seemingly constant need for contact might indicate he is a little insecure or lacking some confidence in his ability to form a meaningful relationship. I am guessing. But he may sound a little needy if you know what I mean. Or it may simply be a case of he is so smitten by you that he can't get enough!"
It DEFINITELY sounds like a little bit of both! And it sure will be interesting how this all plays out…

One other potentially important detail is the way this guy really stretched out our first and second dates. I'm really curious for feedback as to whether it's me needing to let up and live a little or if what went down seems to be a part of the clingy factor… cuz if it does, it may be a case-closed kind of thing! So the first date went like this: despite needing to really get my rest on the weekend, I could tell he wanted to meet early (9 AM at his place, which is an hour away), so I accommodated. We'd planned to spend several hours together (outdoor adventure kind of deal). Now, as much as I was looking forward to our date, I still had chores and other things to take care of. When we got back from our adventure 3-4 hrs. later, it was almost like I couldn't break free… I mean, as far as I was concerned, it was a great first date (and hanging around for a little while for some water / conversation was fine/appropriate); but after that, I felt like I just couldn't break free and several more hours go by. At this point (around 5 PM), I kindly mentioned that it's been an awesome day but that I really needed to get going… but after I say that, the guy then asks me out to dinner and a movie. As fun as it was (and as much as I'm normally up for spontaneous things) I'd dropped enough hints that I really had things to do and the guy either did not pick up on it or choose to ignore them. He then offered for me to stay overnight at his place, which I kindly refused because I really did have shitloads to get done. So I felt like I woke up early (7 AM on a weekend) to accommodate him (not even knowing if we'd be a match) and it stretched out till almost 1 AM (the time I finally got back home)… it just seemed a bit much for a first date.

The next weekend was pretty much the SAME deal (except this time he came to my place and sort of invited himself over for the NIGHT!!!)… needless to say, I didn't get much done the second weekend and was feeling really run into the ground. I'm all for being spontaneous, but this kind of thing just seemed a bit much after meeting someone only 1-2x. What do you guys think: am I being too uptight or the fact that the dates turned into all day (and night) affairs so soon is clinginess (hence the reason I may have felt so flustered)?

Also, after the second date (which was last weekend), the guy tells me that he'll be away on biz until this Saturday (I'm thinking to myself, phew… FINALLY a chance for a breather!)… only to have him want to get together the night he flies in! At this point, feeling flustered and run down and just needing some "ME" time, I asked for a rain-check (i.e. told him that I just needed to crash but how about something mid-week)... I felt the need to propose a different date (or else I'd risk hurting him… another sign of clinginess!). I totally forgot that I will be traveling on biz like right after that, and I can't have this guy run me ragged less than two days before… so I emailed him last night (very tactfully declining and explaining why), and I haven't heard back yet… shit, I think this is the first time in the 3 weeks since we've met where 24 hrs. (or even 12 hrs. for that matter) has gone by without hearing from him!

 

[oldfella]

HAHA well this is starting to get even my curiosity going. I sit here chuckling to myself at all of this. Reebok it is obvious you are either more than curious about this guy or more serious than you thought. He has managed to crawl into your head space no doubt. You need to determine how much head space you are willing to give this guy and do it quick. As you have mentioned, you are getting run ragged probably in more ways than one. You probably need to sit down with said guy and have a good long chat (communicate) with each other and see if you occupy the same amount of head space in his head as he does yours. I venture to guess the answer is yes. As for the clingy/needy personality thing, I'm with you......I would kick it to the curb and keep driving. It is interesting that you don't seem to notice this behaviour when you are actually in each others' company or it is masked by the chemistry going on between the two of you. I would imaging that while he has you within arms reach he may feel reasonably secure with the situation but when you are out of eyesight he gets less secure with the whole scene, hence the constant need to be in touch. Again just a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess). But it sounds like to me that you are not willing to kick his ass to the curb just yet. Just make sure he doesn't beat you to the punch! LOL. Try to meet up with him and talk it out, see where he is coming from. I have no idea your age but I can tell you that at my age being upfront and between the eyes works very well and saves a lot of time. If they can't handle that........................then there is always the curb!!:banghead: LOL. Keep this coming, it really is interesting reading. Good luck.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Doesn't our DNA guide us to seek specific physical traits in a mate? I won't bore y'all with the list but it's an innate desire to reproduce with one who possesses the best genes for our children. I'm too lazy to clarify my argument.

You're too a lot of things. Our DNA doesn't direct anything. However, there is ample evidence that certain traits seek out certain physical characteristics (blonde hair, blue eyes seeks dark hair, dark eyes, for example). This mechanism is in our behavior to prevent like faulty genes from pairing up and expression in children. Although this same mechanism may work in reverse if the parents have like gifts (two extremely talented musicians, for example).

That's not what she's describing at all. These are behavioral idiosyncrasies that are not genetic at all but rather a product of one's environment/background.

Why don't you take a break from the counseling forum for a while? Your attitude and overall demeanor sucks and I'm tired of the weak attempts at humor. I'm not singling you out but... well, just take a break from the counseling forum. You've become a somewhat annoying peanut gallery of sorts. Years past, you were nothing like that.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

OTH, this – "A guy like that may feel he's 'dating up' so he needs that constant reassurance. Which can only mean one thing - you're 'dating down'. In other words, dating beneath you." – did not even occur to me, but as soon as I read your comment, all kinds of light bulbs went off in my head; like some of the little things he says OVER AND OVER. In particular: constantly admiring how I really have an awesome job and really have my shit together so to speak… (but so does he, so I don't know what he keeps saying this to me like it's such an amazing quality)… and the wording/patterns of his texts… EVERY MORNING, ALWAYS starting with something to the effect of, "good morning pretty girl" or "good morning beautiful lady", etc.

If it's exactly as you describe here, yes, that is understandably a turn off. Courtship should be at least a little cat and mouse, I chase you, you chase me, blah, blah, blah. Sounds like he pretty much just has you on the run!! LOL

Two things:

1. Finding a girl that is easy on the eyes AND a decent earner is a good, if not somewhat rare, find. So, not knowing your appearance, I can only assume the dude finds you attractive as well and is feeling like he struck gold.
2. Why are you talking to us about all this? If he's a professional/career-oriented type, he should understand and not feel too overly hurt if you just talk to him about it. If he is hurt or acts like a bitch about it, well... than... LOL, maybe you might want to just consider moving on because then he has some issues of his own that you may/may not want to deal with.

 

[reebokrunner456]

OTH / oldfella – you guys have been super helpful and I really appreciate it!

OTH (Re: your #2) – Isn't this obvious to you? You guys have been super helpful in helping me find answers.
When you're caught in the middle of something (like me with this guy), it's easy to overlook things/write off certain things as 'little'/non-important, (which is exactly what happened to me). Just by posting the details of my situation, reading your responses, and really having to think about answers to some of the questions you posed back to me has been extremely helpful and quickly allowed me to get to the heart of the matter (i.e. that it's not some kind of intangible quality, (as I'd originally thought) that's preventing me from feeling attracted to this guy; rather, there is a real clingy component/quality to him).

As for your #1, I hate describing myself (and would consider myself somewhat better than average) but almost every guy I've meet says that much better than average (or flat out hot) would be more like it… money too (I'm sure there are women who make much better (i.e. 6 figures or above); while I'm not there yet, I'm still a good way above the halfway mark). I didn't realize this is somewhat rare… wow. But that would definitely explain why this guy acts like he's struck gold with me (a VERY good description, btw, for how he's acted). And that –

If it's exactly as you describe here, yes, that is understandably a turn off. Courtship should be at least a little cat and mouse, I chase you, you chase me, blah, blah, blah. Sounds like he pretty much just has you on the run!! LOL

Could not be further from the truth.

Well, time to talk to him about it… OTH, (as I mentioned above, up until talking with you guys on here, I hadn't been able to pinpoint exactly what was bothering me); now that I know, a chat (or email since he's so into that) is definitely in order.

He actually emailed me this morning (about 36 hrs… a RECORD time w/o contact, LOL), saying no worries about my cancelling plans this week; that he is run down from his travels and will actually have to travel twice this upcoming week (including the day we were supposed to me). At first I'm thinking BS (or that he's suddenly trying to play it cool); but based on the line of work he does, last minute travel like this is not uncommon; also, he continues to chat in his usual way about other stuff…

Errr, any advice for talking to him? I've never gotten this "far" in a relationship with any guy that is remotely clingy… so with that being said (if you guys have experience in this regard): can the type of clinginess I've described typically be "turned off" if I talk to the guy and tell him how I'm feeling? If so, any suggestions for how I should approach the topic? I'm guessing even mentioning the word 'clingy' would cause immediate resistance, LOL. If there is typically no hope for removing the clingy factor, then any suggestions for breaking things off smoothly? I really am the kind of gal that HATES hurting people… even the SUPER clingy types of guys I'm trying to turn down that I haven't even gone out with!

 

[oldfella]

Hey reebok,
no thanks needed. Obviously OTH is far better qualified to give advice than myself, but I like to help when I can. As for talking to Gary (I will call him this for the purpose of discussion as he does not sound like a John lol) Anyway, maybe make it reasonably casual, a cafe, upmarket bakery type of shop something like that. Make sure it is not too intimate of a setting as this will send the wrong signals (unless you want to make it so). Coffee, tea or whatever your pleasure. Just be yourself, be open and upfront. Make sure you put your cards o the table but just keep the trump card up your sleeve for insurance. Do not string him along and just get to the nuts and bolts of what you are looking for/expecting in a relationship. It does not need to be super heavy deep and meaningful. Just sort of light and breezy.It is obvious that you are interested in seeing where Gary is coming from so just ask him. If he is a straight up good guy he will not hesitate to give you the answers. If he skirts the issue then I would seriously reconsider the whole game with him. I agree with OTH on the dating courtship thing, most of the time the fun is in the chase. This is a case of Get to know each other to find out just how compatible you both are. You sound like a good woman and my guess is pretty damn attractive as well. No good person like to hurt others mentally or physically. Just be honest, get to know each other and don't over think/overcomplicate things. Take your time and do not get burnt out or burnt in the process. Gary sounds like a decent guy from what you have described and as the old saying goes......"if the shoe fits..........." well I think you know the rest.
Cheers girl and let us know how you get on! (he just sounds like a Gary to me hahaha)
Shit almost forgot, about the last part of your post...........Yes clinginess can be modified to a stage unless it is really inherent to the individual. Then it is ingrained into their personality. Tough nut to crack but not impossible. Once again just bring it up casually not as an affront or anything. Could be Gary has been jilted a few times and feels the need to be clingy. Some reassurance and trust go along way to breaking through that one. Hey look at the end of the day if it is not right/meant to be then it has to be stopped before real damage can occur in the form of a train wreck of feelings being crushed by the train. Just get on with it and be truthful. In my own life experience I have found that yes the truth hurts but a lie or false feelings are devastating. I have maintained friendships with past partners because we were honest with each other. It all works out in the end. Go and have some fun and stop being some serious LMAO. See ya!

 

[OuchThatHurts]

When you're caught in the middle...it's easy to overlook things/write off certain things as 'little'/non-important... Just by posting the details of my situation, reading your responses, and really having to think about answers to some of the questions you posed back to me has been extremely helpful and quickly allowed me to get to the heart of the matter.

This statement here is exactly what my original vision for this forum was all about: by writing it out and getting suggestions, you can often see much more clearly what is really going on in any given crux.

I wish you the best of luck and now you can go out into the scene armed with knowledge about what YOU NEED from a relationship instead of leaving it all up to feelings - feelings which are all too often misleading.

Maybe you salvage this guy, maybe you don't, but all you have to do is tell the dude you need some elbow room for crying out loud. He doesn't need to reinforce your knowledge of his attraction to you with every single contact either. Just tell him how you feel straight up like oldfella was saying. He'll dig it or he won't. If he doesn't, get out. It's a big ocean.

(who wouldn't get sick of hearing "Hi sexy", "What are you doing tonight, gorgeous?", "Is everything okay, beautiful?")

 

[oldfella]

(who wouldn't get sick of hearing "Hi sexy", "What are you doing tonight, gorgeous?", "Is everything okay, beautiful?")

Hey Hey there, maybe if you said that to me once in a while things would be different!! I would not get tired of hearing that from you big boy! LMAO. And BTW how long has it been since you contacted me????? HUMMMMMMMMM??? LOL. I know I'm not the clingy type but shit, this is ridiculous.

 

[reebokrunner456]

^ LMFAO!!!

You guys are awesome! I really appreciate all of the advice and will definitely let you know how things turn out.

Gary vs. John, LOL… I can tell you're dying to know! His name is actually Mike. I don't know many guys at all with the first name of Gary, but I could see him as a Gary. As for John… I've know so many by that name (everything from smokin' hot, to butt-ass fugly to creepy stalker types, fat, rail thin, you name it!) that anyone can be a John in my mind. Although I have to admit, is my first association with John (= Johnny Rzeznik ).

It's good to hear that clinginess can be modified cuz when we're together (except for stretching out the dates into all day/all evening affairs, LOL) he doesn't act/throw the slightest clingy vibe; so I definitely think there's hope. Speaking of clinginess, it is crazy and has always puzzled me how I've change… in my high school days (and younger) I was the SUPER CLINGY type; the kind of gal who wanted/needed/treasured the constant daily communication. The crazy thing is, I never made any kind of conscious effort to change myself… it was almost like I went off to college, and poof, I become the TOTAL opposite (not only at the extreme end of the non-clingy spectrum, but some much so that clinginess has driven me crazy ever since). I'd imagine SOMETHING caused me to change, but I never cold pinpoint it. On the other hand, there are certain things (like cheating tendencies… or lack of them) that have stayed exactly the same: I've never in my life cheated and can honestly say I've never even considered it or felt tempted to cheat in any relationship.

 

[oldfella]

Mike, Gary, Barry, Larry, Oh whateva!!! LOL. Good to see you do have a sense of humor there reebok. In the relationship stakes you need it. Injecting humor into a situation is not only good for both but is a terrific lead in to more serious conversation like whether or not Mike is a clingon or not! Shit I hope he is not a Star Trek fan or he's gonna be pissed.

Look things change with time, personalities modify and adapt with time, flaws can be corrected over time. If handled carefully! Clingy behaviour can be altered with time, trust and understanding. Past experience can change a person from being a rock into an octopus that clings to everything it touches. Sounds like Mike, if dealt with early on could be a good catch. Only you can be the judge of that. I think you have enough ammunition in your arsenal now to go and tackle this one. You do need to let us know how this turns out please.

Damn, I still have not heard from OTH and its' been ....................forever. ARGHHHH this is so frustrating. Was it something I said???? LMAO

 

[reebokrunner456]

^^^LMFAO!!! …maybe even you are too clingy for OTH!

You guys are really awesome, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help (and the laughs… you can really keep pace with the sense of humor as well!). I'll definitely be sure to let you know how it turns out… it's getting very interesting to say the least…

…since there is no time for us to meet up in person this week (AND cuz I don't think I could have taken another day of the clingy texting), I hinted kindly (and VERY indirectly, mind you!) that I didn't care for the texts. I basically answered his email/BS'd with him as normally would have and then wrote the following P.S.) –

Definitely don't feel like you have to email/text me every day… I know more than anyone what it's like when things get crazy!

After sending the email, I was almost kicking myself for being too passive (but the reason is that this guy has a knack for reading women… almost like how women can read each other!); and he obviously got the hint because there were no usual 'good morning texts' (or anything other texts/calls/emails etc.. for that matter). The interesting part will be how he reacts.

As for me, I almost felt like an evil bitch when I woke up this morning, found no texts/messages, and uncontrollably smiled from ear to ear. It's also amazing how my stress level dropped to zero and that squelching/suffocating feeling has eased up remarkably. Jeez, I didn't realize I was so incredibly turned off by clinginess, LOL. It sure is crazy to think there was a time in my life when I actually wanted/needed a guy who would call/text/contact me daily!

 

[oldfella]

^^^LMFAO!!! …maybe even you are too clingy for OTH!

You guys are really awesome, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help (and the laughs… you can really keep pace with the sense of humor as well!). I'll definitely be sure to let you know how it turns out… it's getting very interesting to say the least…

…since there is no time for us to meet up in person this week (AND cuz I don't think I could have taken another day of the clingy texting), I hinted kindly (and VERY indirectly, mind you!) that I didn't care for the texts. I basically answered his email/BS'd with him as normally would have and then wrote the following P.S.) –

Definitely don't feel like you have to email/text me every day… I know more than anyone what it's like when things get crazy!

After sending the email, I was almost kicking myself for being too passive (but the reason is that this guy has a knack for reading women… almost like how women can read each other!); and he obviously got the hint because there were no usual 'good morning texts' (or anything other texts/calls/emails etc.. for that matter). The interesting part will be how he reacts.

As for me, I almost felt like an evil bitch when I woke up this morning, found no texts/messages, and uncontrollably smiled from ear to ear. It's also amazing how my stress level dropped to zero and that squelching/suffocating feeling has eased up remarkably. Jeez, I didn't realize I was so incredibly turned off by clinginess, LOL. It sure is crazy to think there was a time in my life when I actually wanted/needed a guy who would call/text/contact me daily!

I am literally LOL. You evil bitch you! He is probably sitting in a corner of his hotel room curled up in the foetal position sucking his thumb and crying his little eyes out. Hell I bet he is contemplating a name change right this very minute! HAHAHAHA in all seriousness good for you. I think the subtle hit with a sledgehammer worked a treat. No really, I think he has taken it on board and will give you some air space. If he is as sharp as I think he is he'll let you get on with business and he will also. Once hectic week is over he will contact you or maybe even you contact him so things are on a level playing field. He will feel pretty good about this and I think you will too.

I bet he changes his name to Henry!! LOL. Good luck.

 

[oldfella]

AS for OTH if I don't hear from him soon I am going to kick his ass to the curb!!!

HAHA You know I love ya baby!

 

[OuchThatHurts]

AS for OTH if I don't hear from him soon I am going to kick his ass to the curb!!!

HAHA You know I love ya baby!

It's alright. I'm still here. I don't have anything else to offer RBR here. Sounds like she's on the right track. Either the guy responds favorably or he acts like a c**t. Either way, I think RBR is now more aware of herself and her needs. No matter what the case, she'll hopefully make smarter CHOICES from now on. She doesn't have to leave as much up to some nebulous feeling out there somewhere as to who she dates. I hate referring to the OP in the third person so this is usually where I bow out and let life happen. It always does.

p.s. I'm rubbing one out right now just thinking about you and I on some remote Australian clothing-optional beach. Then again, whom am I addressing?!? LMAO!

 

[oldfella]

It's alright. I'm still here. I don't have anything else to offer RBR here. Sounds like she's on the right track. Either the guy responds favorably or he acts like a c**t. Either way, I think RBR is now more aware of herself and her needs. No matter what the case, she'll hopefully make smarter CHOICES from now on. She doesn't have to leave as much up to some nebulous feeling out there somewhere as to who she dates. I hate referring to the OP in the third person so this is usually where I bow out and let life happen. It always does.

p.s. I'm rubbing one out right now just thinking about you and I on some remote Australian clothing-optional beach. Then again, whom am I addressing?!? LMAO!

edit: whoops, I meant whom

AHHHH I feel soooo much better now. I'm really not the clingy type and if you would just give me the chance I can prove that to you. I managed to leave you alone for over two years didn't I????? LMFAO. Besides, you have such a way with words. Oh and the clothing optional beach thing........I had no idea you were such a romantic!! LOL. Yea and to whom indeed??

All is good big guy and as always, good to share some light hearted banter with you. Yes I would say RBR is well on her way to separating the chaff from the wheat on this one.

 

[reebokrunner456]

You guys are killing me!

Yea and to whom indeed??

I was wondering the same thing, haha! ME? You? Maybe a little bit of both!

It's alright. I'm still here. I don't have anything else to offer RBR here. Sounds like she's on the right track. Either the guy responds favorably or he acts like a c**t.

So, true; that's pretty much how it goes. Still no word (and I'm still lovin' my freedom!).