Training to Failure Best for Muscle Building?

[desibaba]

Since i was 16 i read Mike Mentzer's HIT book and always felt training to failure was the way to go. Made sense because your muscles would grow when overloaded, the go hard or go home mentality sounded so fucking badass and anything less seemed i wasnt hardcore enough.

Last few months i have been reading on CNS overload and how leaving a rep or two in the tank might be beneficial. I increased my sets and tried stopping every set with a lil bit left. All of a sudden i feel way better. The gains are coming again. Yes you can argue that my body liked the change or MAYBE i was overtraining before but do any of you feel that training to failure sabotages our gains???

 

[Pitbullmike007]

i personally think changing things up from time to time is the key,, our bodies are something of a wonder,, its very capable and very adabtable.. once things start to get stale and slow down,, change up the training.. theres so many diff ways to train, and all seem to work on someone,, find what works for ya, and when it doesnt anymore switch to something diff for a bit..

 

[Tom]

Training to failure will ultimately..... lead to failure!

 

[aminoman74]

I do high volume most of the time to overload the muscle.But once in a while I'll do high intensity to the mix to change it up.

 

[stanio115]

it is , not for strength though, there was a good article on the forum , about 1x a week per muscle group, till failure, and 3 times a week per muscle - the guy said teh same , what i ve experience, with once a weak - biggest size i ve been , but not stronger, with 2 tomes a week - much stronger , but smaller

 

[tkav1980]

simple answer - yep!

Complicated answer - it depends.

Training to failure I consider an intensity technique. However intensity isnt the only part of the equation. Theres also volume and frequency. I trained with John meadows a while back and he had me doing far more volume that I was used to. On arms he had me doing tri sets and supersets....It was an insanely intense workout but he was specific on when I should and should not train an exercise ot failure. I also wasnt trainign a muscle every 3 days either, so I never hit burnout from the volume. The higher the volume the longer the recovery period required.

IMO to answer your origional question, a high intensity training session training to failure every set for just a few sets then being done is the fastest way to grow. you can retrain that muscle again in just a few days. However, with those big weights to failure comes the increased risk of injury and possibility of CNS burnout if the program isnt constructed perfectly to avoid that burnout. Hell DC has cruises built into his program so you can take a break when you burnout. I love training with that low volume and high frequency approach. It's simply put- the most fun for me and in all honesty it really isnt the program itself that gets the results. It's the consistancy over a long time that gets them.

 

[stanio115]

thing is that some people realy dont know the exact meaning of "failure" - they quit loong b4 they d fail, 3-4 reps b4 a real fail, and they really believe that they cant do anymore...

 

[flexdurden]

I think the success of going until failure versus leaving a rep or two lies in other training variables such a frequency, volume, recovery, nutrition and supplementation.

You also have to look at the periodization and progression of the program. One of manly examples is DC. You are going to be pushing each muscle until failure for a given period, but there comes a time when you need to let up and give your body a reset. I have never training under John Meadows, but from what I understand, he also uses lower intensity periods in his programs to give the body a rest before cranking up the volume and intensity again.

IMO, training until failure or not really can't be looked at in isolation, is has to be looked at with respect to the entire program design and recovery factors.

 

[kyleb]

There are so many different ways of working out that are supposed to be 'best'. It's all crap.

Truth is,choose what you like most, have fun doing it, push yourself everyday,keep the intensity high and you'll grow provided you eat right.

 

[TNH]

To me ultimate failure is when you miss a rep.
I also think that once form breaks, you have reached failure.

Based on those definitions, I train to just a rep or two under failure. I do as many reps with proper form as I can, if I were to do one last one it would be with bad form or I would miss it... so I don't do that rep.

 

[Bad Fox]

What so many lifters fail to recognise in terms of length of recovery time when training to failure or volume is the type of muscle fibers that one has a majority of.

The fast twitch fibers are more prone to explosive short duration movements and power. They tend to respond well to a low volume routine but with high intensity. The slow twitch are more suited for lots of sets. They respond to volume... form... and also heavy loads. Emphasis being on volume.

We all have a mix of these fibers in our bodies. Certain muscle groups in the same body may contain fast twitch and yet others be slow twitch. They catagorise them as red and white. You can effectively recruit a certain amount of these in either direction by training in that according manner.

However....What the good lord gave you a majority of will still be dominant. I have a majority of fast twitch. When I train compound muscle groups... lets say bench press. I fatigue very quickly and my power falls off after a lower # of sets. I train for 1 set to failure with the preceeding sets being merely a warm up.

That particular work load looks like this for me on heavy bench day.

2 sets warm and stretch with bar.
1 set 95lbs 25 reps still stretching and slow
1 set 135 slow and stretch 10 reps
1 set 135.... bringing the bar down slowly

to chest and firing off as explosively as I can.(This trains the nuerons and gathers more for fast twitch recruitment) 20 reps

1 set 135 speed throughout the movement 20 reps
1 set 185 for 10 reps slow down and explosive off
1 set 225 same way 10 reps

TARGET SET....... What do I want today? 15 ... 10... 8..6...3...1?

Whatever I feel is beneficial at my point of progress I will target 1 set for that and make it 100%

Last monday was 295 for 10. I actually went to 10 and had more left in the tank and hit 12. I always make sure that my last rep slows down quite a bit to be sure of maximum load. However.... I instruct my spotter that if the bar stops for any length of time... to please just grab it off. If the bar stops and lingers for even 2 seconds you are past optimal training and in the injury zone.

This work load will for those with a majority of fast twitch muscle fibers require at least 3 days recovery. When getting into 90% or above weights especially more so. Can you grow training like this? Abso frieken lutely.

Coming into your next workout is the measuring device. Am I recovered? You will know...... Not by your zeal to lift. But if the lighter warm up weights feel heavy and you have pains. (Dont do it)

For the slow twitch guys. I feel sorry for you. You are the hard gainers. No matter what you do you dont get sore or feel that you are doing enough. Well.... there is light at the end of the tunnel. You can recruit more fast twitch fiber. What is needed is a strong connection of awareness and focus. You can train your brain...... yes your brain to change your bodies behaviour and make up to a large degree.

Its simple. As many people bench press( I just use that as an example) they just move the bar up and down and complete their set with whatever weight they are used to doing in their workouts. By narrowing your mind to the movement and forcing yourself to be explosive.... especially at the bottom. You recruit more nuerons to fire....... thus recruiting the fast twitch fibers.... and thus causing change.(Those groupings will increase) Which will yield you greater reaction to the load placed upon the muscle. (Presuming a 100 % effort)

Work loads will vary according to individual during this process.... However if done correctly noticeable improvements should be made. And then those folks can more follow what work loads that lead them to growth tailored to each themselves and start seeing notable progress.( Recovery still being the key)

Not trying to preach. I have no credentials. Only know what others have taught me. Bottom line........ KNOW THY SELF........and dont worry what others are doing because they are probobly lost!

 

[desibaba]

The problem for me is that im so used to taking every set to failure and its hard to force myself to stop when i have a rep or two left in me.

 

[Goody]

thing is that some people realy dont know the exact meaning of "failure" - they quit loong b4 they d fail, 3-4 reps b4 a real fail, and they really believe that they cant do anymore...

Exactly...the mind will want to quit way before the muscle actually will.

 

[Tough Old Man]

The problem for me is that im so used to taking every set to failure and its hard to force myself to stop when i have a rep or two left in me.

I'll answer your question by bringing up a popular trainer. Dante of Doggcrapp training.

What do you thank his answer to your question would be..


Enough said

 

[buck]

training to failure has worked great for me in the past as long as i din't do to many sets to often. so it takes a while to figure out how is too much.

 

[djbcrdi]

1-2 reps shy of failure is just as effective as going to failure IMO

 

[PitbullTank]

i stop when my positive motion in tha lift fails for my normal rom...i think TRUE failure tho is when u cant even do a 3" mini rep after normal rom stops......

 

[brutus69]

all hit programs have a week or 2 of recovery every 6-8 weeks or so.
dc, max-ot, blood and guts...it's almost like periodiization, and as far as cns burnout.....highly doubtful.
and volume isnt overload. it's tiring out the muscle. there's a difference.

 

[anarchocapitalist]

many years ago i consulted with mentzer for a while. i gave it a good shot for a year. i found myself getting stronger every workout but i wasn't getting bigger. over time i started looking flat. also a single set left me very deconditioned. a single set of deadlifts would leave me laying on the floor. i always rationalized that i was training harder than the volume guys but i eventually learned that i was just out of shape. frustrated i started training with a volume guy in my gym who was training for canadian nationals. i noticed that he had way more muscular endurance than i did. i was strong for the first couple or three sets but after that i had nothing left.

i think i was getting stronger but looking flat on a single set because i was causing enough stress to trigger an alarm reaction but not enough stress to grow. your body would rather economize motion (improve motor skills) than grow (metabolically expensive). the reason a trains engine is larger than a hondas engine is because it has to pull more weight ... yes ... but it has to pull a heavier weight further and longer than a honda. the worlds strongest man isn't 200lbs.

right now i believe that its important to train to failure. i mean holding back a rep or two can only work for so long. eventually you will have to push to that point of momentary voluntary muscular failure. does training to failure guarantee growth? no there are other factors like volume etc of course.

i think with volume you get caught up in routines without giving each set a quality effort. right now i pick about 3 exercises per body part and i give each exercise two really fucking hard attempts. its definitely not volume but something in between. i think that works better than just getting through a volume leg workout of 4 exercises x 4 sets x 10 reps type of thing. in the back of my mind i know all i have to do is pick it up 6 times so i give each set 100% of my mental and physical focus.

 

[sazo75]

Training to failure makes it so much easier to track with a logbook! When I dont go to failure its a bit harder and not as accurate writing down "well maybe I could have done 1 or 2 more " . I truely do believe its those last reps that help BUILD muscle, and STRENGTHEN them as well as STRENGTHEN the CNS and let it adapt! After a while a deload will most likely be needed though.