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Tren Cycles and the use of pramipexole..thoughts/opinions?

leanedout303

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I have been doing a lot of reading up on the usage of pramipexole to reduce and prevent the onset of Prolactin...I have once used a low dosage (.25) of prami along with my last tren cycle and I wasn't sure if I saw any benefits from it...I'm getting ready to start up on my next cycle of tren and i was wondering what everyones thoughts were on if it's worth while to run along side..I'll be running 100mg of tren ace EOD, 175mg of prop EOD and then 50mg of anavar ED...
 

hawkmoon

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Tren still give me problems with even 1mg of prami.
Ty it yourself and tune your dosage of prami. I think it is an individual thing.
 

Jello

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The only side I still had after starting Prami was shortness of breath. You can find out yourself how you'll do by trying it.
 

wukillabee

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prami makes me feel worse than the tren does

next time, ill order caber
x2! Felt worse on .5mg of prami then i do on 75mg of anadrol! But some people it works, u have to try and adjust dosages .25mg each 5-7 days and see what happens. For me, ive found bromo works much better! Its pharm grade and easily found for cheap, can take a full 2.5mg tab ed with zero noticable bad sides, gives good libido and keeps 19-nor sides away for me! What more can i ask for? lol. Never tried caber, too high of a price tag for me to run for a full cycle. Since bromo works so good, no reason for me to try another drug thats suppose to do the same thing. Its all trial and error in finding what works for u.
For prami though from what ive read on numorous boards is to start at .25mg ed an hr or so before bed since in many peeps it makes u sleepy. If it keeps u up then obviously take it some time during the day (see the trial and error kicking in?). Then after 5-7 days if u tolerate it well u can up the dose to .5mg ed if needed but never saw anyone needing to go past the 1mg mark on this stuff. If u gotta go higher then that then i say u need something stronger like bromo/caber or even letro!
 

strako44

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Suppression of Lactation:

When the mother chooses not to breast feed or the baby is lost, suppression of lactation may be required. Initially the breasts get engorged, however in the absence of suckling further milk production stops on its own. Firm support to the breasts is helpful in reducing the discomfort. Manual expression is not very helpful as it promotes further milk secretion. Estrogens in high doses can suppress lactation, however there are side effects and the risk of venous thrombosis, hence these are not recommended. Bromocryptine, a dopamine agonist, given 2.5 mg twice a day for 14 days can suppress lactation by producing a fall in prolactin levels. This therapy is expensive, has side effects and there may be rebound lactation once the drug is stopped. FDA no longer approves it. Pyridoxine – Vitamin B6, given 200 mg three times a day for 5-7 days is quite effective in suppressing lactation and the drug has no side effects.
================================================
Got Wood? note : adding Bromo to your cycle only adds to the potential anabolic cascade, and potentially negative drug interactions. In medicine B6 is supposed to be as effective as Bromo. Plus vitamin B6 has few side effects.
Here are a few of many studies supporting the use of Vitamin B6 in reducing prolactin:
======================================
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1976 Mar;42(3):603-6


Effect of pyridoxine on human hypophyseal trophic hormone release: a possible stimulation of hypothalamic dopaminergic pathway.

Delitala G, Masala A, Alagna S, Devilla L.

A single dose of pyridoxine (300 mg iv) produced significant rises in peak levels of immunoreactive growth hormone GH and significant decrease of plasma prolactin PRL in 8 hospitalized healthy subjects. Serum glucose, luteinizing hormone LH, follicle stimulating hormone FSH and thyrotropin TSH were not altered significantly. In addition, in 5 acromegalic patients who were studied with both L-dopa and pyridoxine, inhibition of GH secretion followed either agent in a similar pattern. These data suggest a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect of pyridoxine.

===============================
N Engl J Med 1982 Aug 12;307(7):444-5

Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise.

Moretti C, Fabbri A, Gnessi L, Bonifacio V, Fraioli F, Isidori A.

=====================================
Boll Soc Ital Biol Sper 1984 Feb 28;60(2):273-8

[Influence of administration of pyridoxine on circadian rhythm of plasma ACTH, cortisol prolactin and somatotropin in normal subjects]

[Article in Italian]

Barletta C, Sellini M, Bartoli A, Bigi C, Buzzetti R, Giovannini C.

The influence of vitamin B6 in a dosage of 300 mg X 2 in 24 hrs, on circadian rhythm of plasmatic ACTH, cortisol, prolactin and somatotropin have been studied in 10 normal women. After vitamin B6 24 hrs pattern of ACTH and cortisol is unchanged; prolactin levels are slightly lower, in a statistically unsignificant proportion the night peak of growth hormone is higher in a statistically significant proportion (p. 0.05). The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to me mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level as previous studies by other Authors appear to prove.
 

jay_dub

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Last time I ran tren I was running 400mg (it was way too much, 200mg is plenty for me) and worked my way up to 1mg of prami. I felt damn good, but wow my libido was so high it was almost too much hahaha. Simply walking down the street and seeing a hottie or being touched on the shoulder by a female and I'd be needing to do a quick tuck up underneath the belt type of deal if ya know what I mean.

I'll admit I dont know if I'd ever run prami again though, starting out it makes me feel like complete shit. I've ran it twice and both times its been almost unbearable for the first few days but I managed to stick it out. It makes me feel like I've got the flu. I'd love to try caber since the sides are far less I hear.
 

nickman1978

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interesting...

Suppression of Lactation:

When the mother chooses not to breast feed or the baby is lost, suppression of lactation may be required. Initially the breasts get engorged, however in the absence of suckling further milk production stops on its own. Firm support to the breasts is helpful in reducing the discomfort. Manual expression is not very helpful as it promotes further milk secretion. Estrogens in high doses can suppress lactation, however there are side effects and the risk of venous thrombosis, hence these are not recommended. Bromocryptine, a dopamine agonist, given 2.5 mg twice a day for 14 days can suppress lactation by producing a fall in prolactin levels. This therapy is expensive, has side effects and there may be rebound lactation once the drug is stopped. FDA no longer approves it. Pyridoxine – Vitamin B6, given 200 mg three times a day for 5-7 days is quite effective in suppressing lactation and the drug has no side effects.
================================================
Got Wood? note : adding Bromo to your cycle only adds to the potential anabolic cascade, and potentially negative drug interactions. In medicine B6 is supposed to be as effective as Bromo. Plus vitamin B6 has few side effects.
Here are a few of many studies supporting the use of Vitamin B6 in reducing prolactin:
======================================
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1976 Mar;42(3):603-6


Effect of pyridoxine on human hypophyseal trophic hormone release: a possible stimulation of hypothalamic dopaminergic pathway.

Delitala G, Masala A, Alagna S, Devilla L.

A single dose of pyridoxine (300 mg iv) produced significant rises in peak levels of immunoreactive growth hormone GH and significant decrease of plasma prolactin PRL in 8 hospitalized healthy subjects. Serum glucose, luteinizing hormone LH, follicle stimulating hormone FSH and thyrotropin TSH were not altered significantly. In addition, in 5 acromegalic patients who were studied with both L-dopa and pyridoxine, inhibition of GH secretion followed either agent in a similar pattern. These data suggest a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect of pyridoxine.

===============================
N Engl J Med 1982 Aug 12;307(7):444-5

Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise.

Moretti C, Fabbri A, Gnessi L, Bonifacio V, Fraioli F, Isidori A.

=====================================
Boll Soc Ital Biol Sper 1984 Feb 28;60(2):273-8

[Influence of administration of pyridoxine on circadian rhythm of plasma ACTH, cortisol prolactin and somatotropin in normal subjects]

[Article in Italian]

Barletta C, Sellini M, Bartoli A, Bigi C, Buzzetti R, Giovannini C.

The influence of vitamin B6 in a dosage of 300 mg X 2 in 24 hrs, on circadian rhythm of plasmatic ACTH, cortisol, prolactin and somatotropin have been studied in 10 normal women. After vitamin B6 24 hrs pattern of ACTH and cortisol is unchanged; prolactin levels are slightly lower, in a statistically unsignificant proportion the night peak of growth hormone is higher in a statistically significant proportion (p. 0.05). The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to me mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level as previous studies by other Authors appear to prove.
This is a pretty interesting studies... I've always known about the B6 at 600mgs a day but i never knew that it also is supposed to help a rise in GH at night...

I;ve used Prami twice at .25 a night...1st time with Tren ace and this time with Deca...
To be honest, I really cant tell the difference if i'm on it or not... The only difference that i feel is the major rise in my libido...Like the last guy said, I'd try to F.ck anything looking half decent...I'm constently wanting to have sex with my girl...She cant keep up with me...I start to get on her nerves i want to F.ck so much on that stuff...

I've never tried caber or bromo...
Maybe next time i will try just using the B6 at 600 mgs a day...(dosed 2 seperate times at 300mgs each)...
 

IronCore

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Suppression of Lactation:

When the mother chooses not to breast feed or the baby is lost, suppression of lactation may be required. Initially the breasts get engorged, however in the absence of suckling further milk production stops on its own. Firm support to the breasts is helpful in reducing the discomfort. Manual expression is not very helpful as it promotes further milk secretion. Estrogens in high doses can suppress lactation, however there are side effects and the risk of venous thrombosis, hence these are not recommended. Bromocryptine, a dopamine agonist, given 2.5 mg twice a day for 14 days can suppress lactation by producing a fall in prolactin levels. This therapy is expensive, has side effects and there may be rebound lactation once the drug is stopped. FDA no longer approves it. Pyridoxine – Vitamin B6, given 200 mg three times a day for 5-7 days is quite effective in suppressing lactation and the drug has no side effects.
================================================
Got Wood? note : adding Bromo to your cycle only adds to the potential anabolic cascade, and potentially negative drug interactions. In medicine B6 is supposed to be as effective as Bromo. Plus vitamin B6 has few side effects.
Here are a few of many studies supporting the use of Vitamin B6 in reducing prolactin:
======================================
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1976 Mar;42(3):603-6


Effect of pyridoxine on human hypophyseal trophic hormone release: a possible stimulation of hypothalamic dopaminergic pathway.

Delitala G, Masala A, Alagna S, Devilla L.

A single dose of pyridoxine (300 mg iv) produced significant rises in peak levels of immunoreactive growth hormone GH and significant decrease of plasma prolactin PRL in 8 hospitalized healthy subjects. Serum glucose, luteinizing hormone LH, follicle stimulating hormone FSH and thyrotropin TSH were not altered significantly. In addition, in 5 acromegalic patients who were studied with both L-dopa and pyridoxine, inhibition of GH secretion followed either agent in a similar pattern. These data suggest a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect of pyridoxine.

===============================
N Engl J Med 1982 Aug 12;307(7):444-5

Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise.

Moretti C, Fabbri A, Gnessi L, Bonifacio V, Fraioli F, Isidori A.

=====================================
Boll Soc Ital Biol Sper 1984 Feb 28;60(2):273-8

[Influence of administration of pyridoxine on circadian rhythm of plasma ACTH, cortisol prolactin and somatotropin in normal subjects]

[Article in Italian]

Barletta C, Sellini M, Bartoli A, Bigi C, Buzzetti R, Giovannini C.

The influence of vitamin B6 in a dosage of 300 mg X 2 in 24 hrs, on circadian rhythm of plasmatic ACTH, cortisol, prolactin and somatotropin have been studied in 10 normal women. After vitamin B6 24 hrs pattern of ACTH and cortisol is unchanged; prolactin levels are slightly lower, in a statistically unsignificant proportion the night peak of growth hormone is higher in a statistically significant proportion (p. 0.05). The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to me mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level as previous studies by other Authors appear to prove.
This is a very interesting study... However, look at the prami dosage... 300mg I.V... how will that correlate with a significant reduction in dosage? Like .5 mg orally?
 

Kaladryn

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This is a very interesting study... However, look at the prami dosage... 300mg I.V... how will that correlate with a significant reduction in dosage? Like .5 mg orally?
That's 300mg of B6, not prami.
 

Macro

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b6 does not generally work... studies in women aside...

high doses will suppress steroid (AR,ER,PgR) receptor expression, androgen receptor expression (slightly more so than estrogen receptor expression.. have not seen studies on PgR)

bromocriptine is NOT as strong as pramipexole. cabergoline is a viable option, though as an ergot derivative it does have its caveats with respect to heart health... at least if you plan on using it a while or at higher doses. cabergoline does not have the GH benefits that prami does. but it is generally a lot easier to dose... so its really about what you want and individual response... still a stronger supporter of pramipexole as the best currently widely available option. and generally least expensive.
 

PsyT

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high doses will suppress steroid (AR,ER,PgR) receptor expression, androgen receptor expression (slightly more so than estrogen receptor expression.. have not seen studies on PgR)
What does this even mean? "suppress steroid receptor expression" Where are you even talking about?
 

J_Diggs

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b6 does not generally work... studies in women aside...

high doses will suppress steroid (AR,ER,PgR) receptor expression, androgen receptor expression (slightly more so than estrogen receptor expression.. have not seen studies on PgR)

bromocriptine is NOT as strong as pramipexole. cabergoline is a viable option, though as an ergot derivative it does have its caveats with respect to heart health... at least if you plan on using it a while or at higher doses. cabergoline does not have the GH benefits that prami does. but it is generally a lot easier to dose... so its really about what you want and individual response... still a stronger supporter of pramipexole as the best currently widely available option. and generally least expensive.
Prami does seem like the best option for most right now, but again, everyone reacts a bit differently.
 

Gutz4glory

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I run adex ands 400mg of b6 never had an issue. Prami sucks ass worse sides than tren
 

wukillabee

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Prami does seem like the best option for most right now, but again, everyone reacts a bit differently.
Too bad we react sooooo differently with prami from person to person. Across the boards i see people love it or hate it, zero middle ground! It has its benefits on paper and cheaper then bromo/caber so for a first timer with a 19-nor prami is best to try first and see how one reacts. If not good, then time to try other avenues, thats what i had to do and found a 2.5mg tab of bromo to be totally effective for me personally with no ill effects that i noticed. Gave me the same great effect people rave about prami/caber, increased libido, no prolact issues. If prami didnt make me sick as hell, kill my appetite, even at just .25mg ed then i would and im sure everyone would use it! Problem is we all react differently to the same drug. This obviously goes along with any drug we put in our bodies but seems prami has no middle ground, love it or hate it. Will try the b6 next time though. Seems same thing, works for some at 400-800mg/day and some it doesnt but another cost effecient route before spending more for bromo/caber even though HG bromo tabs are relitively cheap. Caber, always pricey in tabs no matter where u go and cannot be suspended in liquid so no choice with caber but to pay up! Reason why its usually a last resort for many.
 

Researchstop

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People using Prami usually make the mistake of taking too much too fast. If you follow the protocols found in research and use .1mg for a week and then double it you will build a better tolerance to it. Also, some people do better using it when they get up in the morning so it's cleared and doesn't interfere with sleep. But like some people wrote here, you may do better with adding a night time dose. I can't do that. But it works for others.
The libido thing is off the chain. It really wipes out the libido killing effects of Tren for me.
 

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