TRUTH ABOUT STEROIDS PART 2

[richiec]

You have missed the point completely bud. I never said pot is life or death. I never said it ruins families. None of that is an issue I'm trying to push. Drugs, serious drugs are life and death, and I am not saying that every single piece of info you get in a drug rehab facility is 100% true, not at all. What i said was that you saying they teach drugs like the movie refer madness portrayed weed was an ignorant, dumb, dip shit of a thing to say, you silly, silly Ho. That's all.

And here you are again with this other people have had it harder shit. Once again you don't know me, you don't have a fucking clue about me, you don't know what you are talking about. You sir, are talking out of your ass, and if we were standing by each other you would be one silly remark from falling on a dick.

Me saying I have had the hardest road ever, harder than any other would be like saying you are the baddest, hardest mother fucker that ever walked the earth. We know god damn well that there is someone, somewhere that could whip my ass, your ass, and somebody else's ass with their eyes closed. So why the fuck would I ever remark in that manner? And that is why it is so absurd for you to make your remark about others having it rougher. That is such an open ended statement, it is ridiculous. Of course there has to be someone somewhere who has had it just a little more rough. I'll put my shriveled up, no test producing right fuckin testicles on it.

It's offensive that some little smart ass on a board would go and make the wild assumption that what I have been through is nothing. Even if I had been through hardly anything, which is not the fuckin case mind you, it wouldn't matter to which degree someone else has gone, what would matter is how it sits between that mother fuckers ears boy. How bad did it affect ME..... not well I got beat by three black dudes and raped by six arabs, your two black dudes and 4 Arabs ain't shit. That is why I'm cussing and bothered. Don't make silly ass assumptions based on what you fuckin think bud.

You make me just wanna shit on somebody. Just crouch down and fucking shit. Here, you can have that, you are welcome. like just cupped it to three fulk protein shakes a day shit too, not some normal ass chicken dinner type shit. Some big, long, over sized type shit.

That was my whole point billy bad ass. You put your situation as being the shittiest, I simply said that others have been down roads much rougher than some others have. You then threw a temper tantrem like a 5 yr old.

Sorry to hear about your situation tough guy, I guess the tough guy talk didn't sit to well with the people you did that to you huh, BOY. Why do you comtinue to talk like you are some kind of bad ass? "if we were standing by each other you would be one silly remark from falling on a dick" Are you kidding me??? Nothing better than an internet tough guy

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Quite a long post and not a new perspective on the topic. People here in this thread have already tried to explain that steroids are addictive in a completely different way than recreational drugs. For example, me like 10 pages ago:

It might be semantics but I feel it is worth noting that without the physical improvements from these substances, no one would use or abuse them. Without actual muscle tissue being added to your frame, no one cares about these oils and tablets.

Your post makes me a little angry as it completely inundates my entire point - which you missed. My point is simply that the only difference in regards to addiction is that most drugs' primary or immediate effect is to produce a reward in the way of some sensation while the addictive properties of steroids lie in the secondary effects (vs. immediate) of the drug. And steroids do meet the definition of a drug. And your "physical improvements" are not so much physical improvements as they are cosmetic improvements and these "oils and tablets" that nobody would care about have a lot of harmful side effects for a drug that produces no reward.

It should be noted, however, that steroids are LEGAL drugs. Let me say that again. Steroids are legal drugs. The caveat is only that they be obtained with a valid prescription from a licensed physician in order to "ensure" they are used as indicated - and not abused as is normally the case. I want to be clear about that: steroids CAN be used to improve quality of life in a safe and therapeutic manner when used in circumstances where steroids are indicated. Jabbing yourself with 2cc's of oil from a black market drug manufacturer in order to look better cosmetically or make better strength gains (when no cosmetic or strength disorder exists) does not count.

HRT under a doctor's supervision (in my opinion) can improve your quality of life and extend enjoyment of life into later years. But we're not talking about legally obtaining 100mg of testosterone per week from your neighborhood pharmacist here (or a cream or a patch). That's not the point of this thread.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

19 pages?!?!?!

i am in shock
this has surpassed all of my hopes and expectations.
on to page 20!!!!!!!!!!!!!:headbang:
-JS

 

[tkav1980]

Your post makes me a little angry as it completely inundates my entire point - which you missed. My point is simply that the only difference in regards to addiction is that most drugs' primary or immediate effect is to produce a reward in the way of some sensation while the addictive properties of steroids lie in the secondary effects (vs. immediate) of the drug. And steroids do meet the definition of a drug. And your "physical improvements" are not so much physical improvements as they are cosmetic improvements and these "oils and tablets" that nobody would care about have a lot of harmful side effects for a drug that produces no reward.

It should be noted, however, that steroids are LEGAL drugs. Let me say that again. Steroids are legal drugs. The caveat is only that they be obtained with a valid prescription from a licensed physician in order to "ensure" they are used as indicated - and not abused as is normally the case. I want to be clear about that: steroids CAN be used to improve quality of life in a safe and therapeutic manner when used in circumstances where steroids are indicated. Jabbing yourself with 2cc's of oil from a black market drug manufacturer in order to look better cosmetically or make better strength gains (when no cosmetic or strength disorder exists) does not count.

HRT under a doctor's supervision (in my opinion) can improve your quality of life and extend enjoyment of life into later years. But we're not talking about legally obtaining 100mg of testosterone per week from your neighborhood pharmacist here (or a cream or a patch). That's not the point of this thread.

OK OTH, please if you would put that brain to work on this one.

As a few people know i was arrested in JAN this year for a failure to appear warrant. the long and short of it being i paid a ticket by mail that required an appearance then the letter to appear was sent to my former address. anyway when i was arrested my car was searched and a long forgotten bottle of test was found empty. i got put on PTI(pre trial intervention), took my drug tests(yes they tested for steroids) pass them all, and honestly its been quite some time since ive used any AAS. I continued to train, grow, get stronger etc. now being just 30 years old, i go to see my doctor. tell him of new aches and pains, tired more often, etc. Blood work is done, and test was a bit low, ok it was pretty low. so i got a script of 200 mg test c every 2 weeks refill as needed.

first thought i had with the script in my hand was, no reason i cant use 200 mg/week. so what im asking is not weather or not this is some manifestation of addiction, but would you assume that there is some inherent personality disorder associated with this type of thought process?

 

[OuchThatHurts]

So bottom line we know that steroids can be addictive to some people, while they are not to others? Using a clinical scale of addictive capability, I think steroids fall way short of oxycodone, cocaine, and heroin.

So addiction is a function of the person (their personality type) and the substance. And an additional factor for many addicts is the situational factors in their lives - who are their friends (peer pressure), how much stress are they under, etc.

In sum, this thread makes good points about the potential dangers of steroid overuse and the fact that their use can easily overwhelm the people who use them to the point that it winds up ruining their lives - and that probability is high of certain people.

Anyone who is on all the time or cycling with test injections when off needs to reassess their future in light of the comments Phil had made and the OTH has summarized so well.

This snippet is true. We can place substances in categories intended to describe their potential for abuse. That is the entire reason there are different classes of drugs - their potential for abuse. For example, oxycodone is a schedule II (very high potential for abuse) while steroids are class III (high-moderate potential for abuse) while others like Ambien are class IV (moderate-low potential for abuse). My high, moderates, lows may not be entirely correct, I didn't look them up but you get the idea.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

OK OTH, please if you would put that brain to work on this one.

As a few people know i was arrested in JAN this year for a failure to appear warrant. the long and short of it being i paid a ticket by mail that required an appearance then the letter to appear was sent to my former address. anyway when i was arrested my car was searched and a long forgotten bottle of test was found empty. i got put on PTI(pre trial intervention), took my drug tests(yes they tested for steroids) pass them all, and honestly its been quite some time since ive used any AAS. I continued to train, grow, get stronger etc. now being just 30 years old, i go to see my doctor. tell him of new aches and pains, tired more often, etc. Blood work is done, and test was a bit low, ok it was pretty low. so i got a script of 200 mg test c every 2 weeks refill as needed.

first thought i had with the script in my hand was, no reason i cant use 200 mg/week. so what im asking is not weather or not this is some manifestation of addiction, but would you assume that there is some inherent personality disorder associated with this type of thought process?

My friend you were placed on a therapeutic dose of testosterone by your doctor to treat your testosterone deficiency. This is not a problem. I'm not sure I understand your thought process in regards to any type of personality disorder. I'm saying I have no ability to determine whether or not you possess any type of personality disorder on a message board. I can tell you though, that I have the exact same prescription/dosage. I do not possess an addictive personality. Although my "personality" is addictive to some people.

 

[tkav1980]

My friend you were placed on a therapeutic dose of testosterone by your doctor to treat your testosterone deficiency. This is not a problem. I'm not sure I understand your thought process in regards to any type of personality disorder. I'm saying I have no ability to determine whether or not you possess any type of personality disorder on a message board. I can tell you though, that I have the exact same prescription/dosage. I do not possess an addictive personality. Although my "personality" is addictive to some people.

Let me clarify a bit here. after re-reading my post i did not come across clear. A person, who would take a drug, any drug, knowing full well what the consequences COULD be, and rationalize that decision in one way or a nother must suffer some kind of disorder. At least i would think they would. Before any of this happened, i used what i would think are normal doses of AAS around here totaling in the 500-1000mg/week range, with bloodwork done regularly ETC. taking all the precautions. except that i would buy them online, get them mailed to my house and risk prison time to get them. its not that i never came off, i would always cycle off. but never did the thought of never being able to go back on enter my mind. until i was arrested. even after that, while on PTI, i contemplated returning to AAS use without doctor supervision. Think about that, the desire to be enhanced was so great that i considered ordering them even though if i got caught it would mean 5 yrs in jail. I understand it is impossible to make a diagnosis on an internet forum, my question is this type thought process generally indicative of other underlying issues or a result of the mentally addictive nature of the compound?

 

[OuchThatHurts]

When does one cross the line were using the juice is addictive and negative behavior"steroid junkie" and using it for HRT

People on HRT (200mg test week, 2iu Gh a day)are looking to feel good, maintain youthfulness and health. We can say HRT is actually benefiting the body and has positive health effects on body as well as stronger physique and improved appearance.

....or

is this a different addiction in itself to not accept aging and to maintain and hold onto youth and physical well being as long as possible

DF101, hey brother. Been meaning to get back to you. Have a few minutes this morning so I'm trying to get caught up D)

Before the "....or" you describe what appears to be a therapeutic dose to treat a known deficiency. The medical community had given the green light to such applications since the health risk is believed low enough and offset by the improvement in quality of life (at least that's the way the system is supposed to work). The desire to hold onto youth and physical well-being for as long as possible is probably the most common use and motivator of medicine in general. As long as you realize that it is a losing battle and don't get obsessed about it, I think the desire is probably pretty benign. Wanting to live a long and happy life is not a disease that I'm aware of.

 

[Cosmicdrifter]

Your post makes me a little angry as it completely inundates my entire point - which you missed. My point is simply that the only difference in regards to addiction is that most drugs' primary or immediate effect is to produce a reward in the way of some sensation while the addictive properties of steroids lie in the secondary effects (vs. immediate) of the drug. And steroids do meet the definition of a drug. And your "physical improvements" are not so much physical improvements as they are cosmetic improvements and these "oils and tablets" that nobody would care about have a lot of harmful side effects for a drug that produces no reward.

It should be noted, however, that steroids are LEGAL drugs. Let me say that again. Steroids are legal drugs. The caveat is only that they be obtained with a valid prescription from a licensed physician in order to "ensure" they are used as indicated - and not abused as is normally the case. I want to be clear about that: steroids CAN be used to improve quality of life in a safe and therapeutic manner when used in circumstances where steroids are indicated. Jabbing yourself with 2cc's of oil from a black market drug manufacturer in order to look better cosmetically or make better strength gains (when no cosmetic or strength disorder exists) does not count.

HRT under a doctor's supervision (in my opinion) can improve your quality of life and extend enjoyment of life into later years. But we're not talking about legally obtaining 100mg of testosterone per week from your neighborhood pharmacist here (or a cream or a patch). That's not the point of this thread.

Your analysis of steroids is quite clear and more analytical than most. It's interesting to see that many people have an understanding of the points you are making but have articulated it in different words.

I've divided my position from the psychological and the physiological; obviously your classification of drugs into categories of primary and secondary effects are related to personality variables. The fact is that even given the classes, people still respond differently in terms of dependency.

Ultimately the effect of substances on one's quality of life - productivity, family, health - are the real barometers that we are trying to get at. That is Phil's point.

I worked in clinical settings for many years and saw lots of people go off and on alcohol, heroine, cocaine, methadone, oxycontin, etc. Some stayed off; some cycled off and on. Their personality as measured by neurosis, adjustment, maturity, psychosis, stress, etc. was a factor.

Some people were addicted to not eating - anorexics. The etiology is complex just as this topic is. My only point of possible disagreement relative to Phil's points is that the substance is not as important as the individual personality in terms of the tendency to become dependent.

I also think that the things you've had to say are much more convincing than anything I've said because they are less strident and contentious. Phil and I going back and forth was a mistake on my part.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Let me clarify a bit here. after re-reading my post i did not come across clear. A person, who would take a drug, any drug, knowing full well what the consequences COULD be, and rationalize that decision in one way or a nother must suffer some kind of disorder. At least i would think they would. Before any of this happened, i used what i would think are normal doses of AAS around here totaling in the 500-1000mg/week range, with bloodwork done regularly ETC. taking all the precautions. except that i would buy them online, get them mailed to my house and risk prison time to get them. its not that i never came off, i would always cycle off. but never did the thought of never being able to go back on enter my mind. until i was arrested. even after that, while on PTI, i contemplated returning to AAS use without doctor supervision. Think about that, the desire to be enhanced was so great that i considered ordering them even though if i got caught it would mean 5 yrs in jail. I understand it is impossible to make a diagnosis on an internet forum, my question is this type thought process generally indicative of other underlying issues or a result of the mentally addictive nature of the compound?

I wasn't aware of all that. In light of that, I'd be extremely cautious. You have abused steroids before and are admittedly willing (or at least were willing) to risk 5 years in jail and the destruction of everything you've built in your entire life to be "enhanced". Let me ask you: What do you think?

(because you already know what I'm going to say)

 

[bigboy05]

I was 160lbs and now 260. Wanted to do only one cycle and was told if i do one i will never get off. I dont drink or smoke, im not person who gets addictive... I was wrong.. once i got on i didnt get off. Why? Im scared ill be skinny, stuff does make me feel good and makes me feel confident and just beeing big makes me feel good.
Every day i look at myself in the mirror and say im damn small, i need more size and weight. Yes i have bigorexia. Its never enough.
I dont see what is gonna happen in the future, i just see present , i know i will suffer later , sometimes i ask myself why all this? But it is sickness and i cant stop.
I admit its addictive and its part of my life.

I'm on the same page as you. I grew up a skinny kid..couldn't find jeans slim enough to fit. Skinny through high school, college. Finally I found an outlet (weights) and discovered gear. Complete 180. More confidence and sad fact...more respect from others. Just like you said I still see that skinny kid in the mirror. Yes they are addictive.

 

[tkav1980]

I wasn't aware of all that. In light of that, I'd be extremely cautious. You have abused steroids before and are admittedly willing (or at least were willing) to risk 5 years in jail and the destruction of everything you've built in your entire life to be "enhanced". Let me ask you: What do you think?

(because you already know what I'm going to say)

Like i said, i considered it, didnt actually do it but considered it. does that speak more to the addictiveness of the compound, or more to the personality type. It seems to me that certain personality types are attracted to high risk behavior like police, firefighters, military, criminal activity etc.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Your analysis of steroids is quite clear and more analytical than most. It's interesting to see that many people have an understanding of the points you are making but have articulated it in different words.

I've divided my position from the psychological and the physiological; obviously your classification of drugs into categories of primary and secondary effects are related to personality variables. The fact is that even given the classes, people still respond differently in terms of dependency.

Ultimately the effect of substances on one's quality of life - productivity, family, health - are the real barometers that we are trying to get at. That is Phil's point.

I worked in clinical settings for many years and saw lots of people go off and on alcohol, heroine, cocaine, methadone, oxycontin, etc. Some stayed off; some cycled off and on. Their personality as measured by neurosis, adjustment, maturity, psychosis, stress, etc. was a factor.

Some people were addicted to not eating - anorexics. The etiology is complex just as this topic is. My only point of possible disagreement relative to Phil's points is that the substance is not as important as the individual personality in terms of the tendency to become dependent.

I also think that the things you've had to say are much more convincing than anything I've said because they are less strident and contentious. Phil and I going back and forth was a mistake on my part.

Much of this is fluff and I'm not sure your point but in regards to some of the things you said: Okay, you do realize that a comment like, "Your physique is amazing!" is as much an opiate to some people as a shot of heroin is to others right? My use of the words primary and secondary were only in respect to timing. The primary effect of a shot of heroin is an immediate impact while a shot of testosterone immediately has no effect - rather, it's the longer term impact that people crave and will risk life and limb to receive (I referred to these as secondary). Maybe that terminology is incorrect. There is no question that personality plays a large role in the nature of an addiction (or no addiction as the case may be). I generally assume that all people possess the characteristics (i.e. the potential) to become addicted to something (in one form or another). As far as separating psychological from physiological under these circumstances, well - that's just too big a topic for this venue.

"Ultimately the effect of substances on one's quality of life - productivity, family, health - are the real barometers that we are trying to get at. That is Phil's point."

And just what are the effects of supra-physiological doses of steroids on productivity, family, health? Why do you feel the need to clarify Phil's point to me? Did you have a counterpoint?

Let's try to gravitate away the from smack, blow, weed, and your resume and focus more on the specific characteristics of steroids. Addiction, usage, therapeutic value, etc. It's a rather unique and unusual category that rarely gets any form of cogent dialogue.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Like i said, i considered it, didnt actually do it but considered it. does that speak more to the addictiveness of the compound, or more to the personality type. It seems to me that certain personality types are attracted to high risk behavior like police, firefighters, military, criminal activity etc.

I think it speaks to a lot of thinks don't you? The potency of the compound, the addictiveness itself, your history, your personality, your father's expectations, your penis size. LOL, seriously my friend, excuse my levity but I think you're okay. It's perfectly natural in this world today to want to be admired, whether physically, mentally, even spiritually. I think you're ahead of the curve and you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I have little doubt that you'll recognize when you've spun out of control. Be careful though, because it's not always easy to see until something in your life gets broken.

I remember one time at my docs office, after refilling my test Rx before my physical, I burst out laughing. He asked what I was laughing at. I told him, "You just gave me a prescription for the chemical that's been the cause of 95% of my life's problems." (he knew I meant women) and we both shared a laugh as he played with my balls.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

i didn't know how to quote LUVMUHROIDS previous response to my post but my response is in bold.

I have do differ

sorry i just re-edited this because i disagree with more than one opinion/quote in this.

it is easy to convince yourself steroids aren't addictive and aren't going to damage your life. being on a message board where we all help each other and discuss our favorite drugs and what they do for us etc etc. can't exaclty have a professionalcocaine.com message board and talk about all the great things about getting high but its kinda the equivalent.NO THEY ARE NOT i mean its all illegal NO THEY ARE NOT... STEROIDS IN THE U.S. ARE ILLEGAL TO POSSESS WITH OUT A SCRIPT BUT NOT ILLEGAL. COCAINE IS COMPLETELY ILLEGAL PERIOD AND A HALLUCINATE ADDICTIVE DRUG. DOCTORS DONT PRESCRIBE COCAINE.

but the way its talked about and how easy it is to get makes you forget how serious of an endeavor one is embarking on when plunging that first needle into their glute. this is the main reason i don't like young guys even thinking about steroids. they are too young to fully comprehend the damage they can do.

No, i don't think anyone ever looks in the mirror and say,"wow, i did it. i look perfect. this is exaclty what i wanted." PLEASE DONT SPEAK FOR ME OR THE ENTIRE BOARD. YES I DO LOOK IN THE MIRROR AFTER ALL MY HARD WORK AND DIETING AND BEFORE I STEP ON A STAGE AND AM HAPPY SAYING THAT'S EXACTLY HOW I WANTED TO LOOK.i said i DONT THINK ANYONE is totally satisfied cuz if you took a poll a VERY small amount of people (if anyone besides you) would admit to being satisfied. if you are easily satisfied with how you look pick another sport. cuz with that outlook you would get smoked on stage. but hey we can't all be over achievers seriously tho, most guys aren't satisfied and thats what makes some of them great and some of them dead
it will always be,"man, i coulda been a little bit leaner, a little bit bigger..."OF COURSE IT'S POSITIVE CRITIQUE SO YOU ADVANCE TO THE NEXT LEVEL OF COMPETITION so you say you are satisfied but yet you admit to thinking "a little bit leaner a little bit bigger" is good for advancement? well, kinda sounds contradictaroy to what you wrote above^ that you are satisfied with how you look... just saying...

it ended for me in the hospital for a check up and i had a ridiculous blood pressure reading and failed a kidney function test. I KEEP SEEING YOU CHIMING IN JS BUT CLAIMING DRUG ABUSE AND STEROIDS USAGE. WAS THIS FROM USING STEROIDS OR OTHER DRUGS? MAYBE YOU ALREADY HAD BAD KIDNEYS? RUNNING ORALS LONGER THAN YOURE SUPPOSED TOO? MAYBE FROM USING BOTH DRUGS AND STEROIDS THROUGH OUT YOUR LIFE? WHAT DO YOU THINK CAUSED YOUR BP AND KIDNEY DISFUNCTION?i have never used an oral and never will, nice guess tho. and its pretty much common knowledge steroids can cause high blood pressure while on and its also common knowledge high blood pressure can cause kidney problems. i cant definitively say it was juice that did it but i am 99.99% sure that it was and my doctor (who MIGHT know a bit more about me than you) thinks it was the high dose of test as well and being in contest prep. i have been a dedicated bodybuilder for longer over 10 years now so i HIGHLY doubt any other factor hurt my health as i maintain a very healthy lifestyle except for what i have done to excel in this sport.

AND being a father. all i could think about was my daughter not having me in her life all because i took up some selfish stupid behaviour that was completely self serving. SHE is more important to me than muscle or trophies or fame. i don't give a rats ass about that stuff compared to her. and i know she doesn't care if daddy is big or not famous or not winning or not. she just likes to sit on my lap and play with my whiskers while she is falling asleep. THAT is when it all stopped for me.

i don't really hav3e anything else to say cuz i don't care what anyone thinks. i simply shared my experience in this post in the hopes it might help someone. not to start a debate about anything. these were just my opinions. feel free to share yours but no need to direct them at me.
carry on to page 20!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so funny how much of a waste of time almost all of this thread is. fun tho.
-JS

 

[Cosmicdrifter]

And just what are the effects of supra-physiological doses of steroids on productivity, family, health? Why do you feel the need to clarify Phil's point to me? Did you have a counterpoint?

Let's try to gravitate away the from smack, blow, weed, and your resume and focus more on the specific characteristics of steroids. Addiction, usage, therapeutic value, etc. It's a rather unique and unusual category that rarely gets any form of cogent dialogue.

And, let's try to stay away from the parental recommendations. What the fuck if I don't have a counterpoint or if I do? Maybe you talking about your balls is your resume, but I trying to figure out where the authority of your argument comes from.

Are you a drug counselor? An academic who has reviewed studies. An experienced bodybuilder with a bright opinion. My comment may have been repetitive, but it was not directed at you personally.

All I know is that I have had addictions and I have worked with addicts. We never had a bodybuilder in any psychiatric hospital I worked in; but, I recognize that you can compromise your life with it. There probably is no point worth knowing beyond that.

 

[1Rhino1]

That was my whole point billy bad ass. You put your situation as being the shittiest, I simply said that others have been down roads much rougher than some others have. You then threw a temper tantrem like a 5 yr old.

Sorry to hear about your situation tough guy, I guess the tough guy talk didn't sit to well with the people you did that to you huh, BOY. Why do you comtinue to talk like you are some kind of bad ass? "if we were standing by each other you would be one silly remark from falling on a dick" Are you kidding me??? Nothing better than an internet tough guy

It's just the way you said it pal, its the way you come off player. It is just enough to bug me. its pompous and dickish. It is not your place to tell me that someone could or could not have been through anything at all. You just hopped online and dogged on someone over your silly, pointless, nothing opinion. that's why I am acting the way I am bud.

And I'll tell you what, the last thing a man can accuse me of is being a window warrior bud. I promise you, I stand on my two and face what's comin at me.

Believe that.

 

[lakers10]

I agree that they are addictive. I know me and my partners when getting close to the end of a cycle, we all kind of panic if we don't have the next cycle on hand. We all start betting the bushes trying to find the next cycle, calling each other dam near every day wanting to know if dvd arrived, if not when do they get here, whats the hold up. This is all signs of addiction. Just like people who run out of rec drugs, same behaviors.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

And, let's try to stay away from the parental recommendations. What the fuck if I don't have a counterpoint or if I do? Maybe you talking about your balls is your resume, but I trying to figure out where the authority of your argument comes from.

Are you a drug counselor? An academic who has reviewed studies. An experienced bodybuilder with a bright opinion. My comment may have been repetitive, but it was not directed at you personally.

All I know is that I have had addictions and I have worked with addicts. We never had a bodybuilder in any psychiatric hospital I worked in; but, I recognize that you can compromise your life with it. There probably is no point worth knowing beyond that.

I don't think you have a counterpoint. I don't think you have a point at all. In fact, I'm wondering what you are even doing in this thread. Many of your points are contradictory as pointed out earlier and you seem to just want to be part of an intelligent conversation and you have little to offer. When I find myself in those circumstances, I find it best to listen and talk less. Of course I've counseled people - even right here on this very board. I've been a moderator for 5 years. I'm also an academic. I've also done time. I've reviewed and conducted studies. Some of my work is still referenced to this day. I'm an experienced bodybuilder which is to say I've had enough years of experience in the gym and at shows and in here to know at least a little bit.

You won't find many bodybuilders in psychiatric hospitals because they don't put them there. They put them in jail. Rehabilitation and therapy for the disorders that lead some bber's into trouble are scarce and get zero sympathy. Maybe people and the law think that big bully down the block just deserves what he gets. Who knows.

But all that aside, I appreciate your contributions. I will tell you this, though. If you curse at me one more time, you're going out on your cosmic ass okay? I've put in too much time here and my days are too short to waste the time on foul-mouthed punks that simply like to listen to themselves speak.

This is a warning, okay? I don't mind speaking with you but I do demand some respect after the work I've done here over the years.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Wow this thread is nuts

but i have to agree with a couple people on here and reiterate a point

PSYCHOLOGICALLY ADDICTIVE = YESSS!!!

PHYSICALLY ADDICTIVE = NOOOO!!!


there is no way someone can compare them to meth, heroine, cocaine use, etc.

i am sure in some crazy circumstances, SOMEONE in there life has become both psychologically and physically addicted to them but to 99% of the population of steroid users...when they come off....there is nooo burning desire that will make them steal money and rob banks and do just about anything to get a fix of TEST E