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water retention with different esters

Jack_79

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I have a quick question,

do you retain more water with cypionat/enth/sus (long acting stuff) then on prop (short acting)?
 

xcelbeyond

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Jack_79 said:
do you retain more water with cypionat/enth/sus (long acting stuff) then on prop (short acting)?
Definately.

xcel
 

Jack_79

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but how?
i mean, the ester determines how fast the test is released in the body, and once it's released it's test = test, isn't it?
So to my opinion it should matter if you use long or short acting stuff, but if you guys al say it does, does anyone have more info how it works, what it causes?

thnx for the answers anyway, i was discussing this yesterday in the gym, and they said the same like you guys.
 

crackerjack414

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i beleive it has something to due with the actuel length of the ester. i think there is a good articlle out there that talks about ester lengths
 

Winston

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I always thought aromatisation was ALSo to blame, and short acting esters like prop are worse..........

One needs to be familiar with a host of other compounds when using long-acting testosterone esters however. First of all, anti-estrogens. The rate of aromatization of testosterone is quite great, so water retention and fat gain are a fact and gyno is never far off. If problems occur one is best to start on 20 mg of Nolvadex per day and stay on that until problems subside. I wouldn't stay on it for a whole cycle, as it may reduce the gains. In terms of an aromatase blocker, testosterone is one of the few compounds where Proviron may actually be preferred over arimidex. The proviron will not only reduce estrogen and can be used for extended time on a testosterone cycle, it will also bind with great affinity to sex-hormone binding proteins in the blood and will allow for a higher level of free testosterone in the body, thus improving gains.
this is from bodybuilding.com

Isn't this why some pro-hormones say testosterone is increased, but no aromatisation, and thus water retention ?

Here is a herbal duerietic if you don't weant anything powerful --> http://www.n101.com/Static/Products/lean_for_less_water_regulator_0262021126.html

Winston
 
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xcelbeyond

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Here's an article on how ester affects the "actual" amount of gear 's mg/ml ratio: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1173

I don't know the explanation for water retention associated with longer-acting ester test. The short-acting like prop, or test base (no ester) DO NOT cause hardly any (if any at all) water retention. They do contain "more test" per mg/ml so it would make sense that estrogen aromatizion could be more of a problem. I'm very suseptible to e-related gyno - so I take a good anti-aromatase, letrozole and have no probs at 1g/week.

xcel
 

instynct999

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hmmm....
someone give me some research where an ester has anything to do with estrogenicity or water retention

Test is Test (for the 1000th time)

dosing schedule is the key--even levels is the goal
shooting a long ester, unless maybe undec, 1 or even 2x/week does not create the most uniform blood levels and therein may lie your problem
 

Tapout1

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way is there a concern about it now that we have liquidex and liquid fermera and aromasin. There should be no worry about water ret. with these always avilable and afforable
 

instynct999

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and that is quite true as well

hell, i know a guy quite well who sell those for very good prices, but of course for research purposes only ;)
 

mike man

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I agree with instinct

I don't believe the ester actually has that much to do with it. That only determines how long it stays in your system.
Whether it is dosing or some other factor, I still don't believe ester to be the isolated cause of water retention.
 

Ivan

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Sorry fellas

but I know FOR A FACT that esters do make a difference....here is my example.....

When I took Upjohn Test Cypionate, I got puffy and put on a lot of water weight...I was taking 400 mgs a week. That is all I was taking....A year later I took some test heptlyate, (2 pokes a week) 500mgs a week, nothing else with it, got VERY hard and muscular, gained a lot weight, and did not lose much when off. I was eating the same, training the same, sleeping the same. SO my next cycle was good ol test cyp at 600mgs, and YEP, puffy. Went back to heptylate, w/dbol even, and only had a little water retention. SO I was really impressed with the hep, but unfortunately it is no longer made. I found sustenon to be the closest to hep, if taken EOD. So I know that test is test, BUT there is something to be said about esters and the release etc...something is happening to cause these differences.
 

Winston

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instynct999 said:
hmmm....
someone give me some research where an ester has anything to do with estrogenicity or water retention

the ester doesn't
 

instynct999

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Re: Sorry fellas

Ivan said:
but I know FOR A FACT that esters do make a difference....here is my example.....

When I took Upjohn Test Cypionate, I got puffy and put on a lot of water weight...I was taking 400 mgs a week. That is all I was taking....A year later I took some test heptlyate, (2 pokes a week) 500mgs a week, nothing else with it, got VERY hard and muscular, gained a lot weight, and did not lose much when off. I was eating the same, training the same, sleeping the same. SO my next cycle was good ol test cyp at 600mgs, and YEP, puffy. Went back to heptylate, w/dbol even, and only had a little water retention. SO I was really impressed with the hep, but unfortunately it is no longer made. I found sustenon to be the closest to hep, if taken EOD. So I know that test is test, BUT there is something to be said about esters and the release etc...something is happening to cause these differences.
 

instynct999

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Re: Sorry fellas

Ivan said:
but I know FOR A FACT that esters do make a difference....here is my example.....

When I took Upjohn Test Cypionate, I got puffy and put on a lot of water weight...I was taking 400 mgs a week. That is all I was taking....A year later I took some test heptlyate, (2 pokes a week) 500mgs a week, nothing else with it, got VERY hard and muscular, gained a lot weight, and did not lose much when off. I was eating the same, training the same, sleeping the same. SO my next cycle was good ol test cyp at 600mgs, and YEP, puffy. Went back to heptylate, w/dbol even, and only had a little water retention. SO I was really impressed with the hep, but unfortunately it is no longer made. I found sustenon to be the closest to hep, if taken EOD. So I know that test is test, BUT there is something to be said about esters and the release etc...something is happening to cause these differences.
well if you poked Cyp 1x/week and hep 2x/week there is the diff

both have about the same length carbon chain if i am remebering correctly and therefore the sam erelease

everything should be poked IMO minimum EOD for most uniform rel;ease if with the longer esters like cyp and enan and hep--dec and undec perhaps one can go 2x/week
 

Ivan

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I dunno man

I am telling you I could really notice the difference. You know the watery feeling you get in the neck/trap area? On the cyp I got that within a week of using. Both had excellent strength gains, only on the hep I was looking real hard.
 
W

wyldeone

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well!

true the actual testosterone itself is testosterone but the esters do infact make a difference as Ivan stated above test. hep. causes you to hold little if any water as apposed to test enenthate or cyp. in most instances. now the question posed is that is it due to the half life and/or ester. The large majority is the ester itself as there is a noticable difference in bound and free-form testosteroneas the longer acting testotesterone's or time-released test.(sustanon or omnadren) is usually bound for a longer period of time due to the carbon-molecular chain and/or profile. so to answer the question yes there is a difference. Hope this helps wyldeone.
 

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