What did using more then a gram do ?

[DefibBacc23]

My biggest gains were on 1300mg of test a week.

 

[mexbeast]

I have seen a few. I don't save anything though. I recall all of them having 200-300mg winny. I thought 200mg proviron as well but I may be off with that. Yes loads of other orals including loads of AI's. I recall 700mg orals per week in one.

Hany doesn't write anything down but I have seen some and they had 200-300mg proviron in but they weren't anything crazy it was just certain orals dosed high at the end. AJ's are much higher but again the injectables were nothing crazy from what I recall. A lot of protocols are nothign OTT until the final 4 weeks.

I would go crazy with sex drive, 25 to 50mgs proviron is enough for me, can't imagine what it would be like at those doses

 

[Undi123]

High doses are needed to get big, this is what even Big A was saying.

But is there any reason not to try to take smaller dosages but run them for much longer? Like 500 mg total AAS for 30+ weeks with great diet, training. Side effects will be lower, plus, you can only accrue so much tissue at any given time

 

[luki7788]

High doses are needed to get big, this is what even Big A was saying.

But is there any reason not to try to take smaller dosages but run them for much longer? Like 500 mg total AAS for 30+ weeks with great diet, training. Side effects will be lower, plus, you can only accrue so much tissue at any given time

lol bro don't live in a fairy tale - you need high doses over a long period of time to get big - and I'm talking years not weeks

 

[Mufasa123]

High doses are needed to get big, this is what even Big A was saying.

But is there any reason not to try to take smaller dosages but run them for much longer? Like 500 mg total AAS for 30+ weeks with great diet, training. Side effects will be lower, plus, you can only accrue so much tissue at any given time

I think the issue here is higher/lower and your current state of physical development, potential state, and response to drugs.

If 500mg can maximize or come close to maximizing YOUR potential gains, then sure - why run excess or trade higher sides/potentially worse health for little payoff. Eventually though, 500mg won't be enough, nor will 750mg etc.... Take someone Luki's development, pretty sure that 500mg over 30 weeks will not result in any new muscle accrual so zero progress and likely backslide. He can speak for himself obviously but

So yes there's merit in it and even optimality but dose needs to fit and if you want to get truly big, you will need to run big doses.

 

[Sully1234]

Haha thankfully not, still together but she is a Latina and I was IN for it when I got home. She was waiting for me in the driveway arms crossed

We should have our Latinas fight so at least one of us can be free.

On a serious note, I really can't take tren if I know I'm going to be around certain people. After a few weeks it makes me really irritable.

 

[Spiro]

Personally, I think you take for example

1250 mg test
1250mg EQ

vs

750 mg test
500mg EQ
500mg deca
350mg tren
50mg anadrol daily

in both cycles you have the same weekly amount = 2500mg

on the second stack you will probably look better in terms of fullness and quality and you will probably be a little stronger but on the first one your overall health will be better as well as well-being which can translate into better training sleep etc

anyway, what is it striving for - when it comes to pure muscle tissue growth, the most important factor here is the general dose of androgens, not their type - these are the conclusions I have after over 15 years of using steroids and I also talked to many advanced bodybuilders or experienced PM users and they all have very similar sentence

Of course, when it comes to preparing for the competition, then the type of drug compounds is of great importance because some give us a unique type of appearance, but you can build muscles on anything

So would you say masteron is good choice for offseason if only the dose matter?
Lets say
Test 750, eq 600 and npp 350 vs
Test 750, eq 600 and 400 masteron
You would grow pretty similar?

 

[luki7788]

So would you say masteron is good choice for offseason if only the dose matter?
Lets say
Test 750, eq 600 and npp 350 vs
Test 750, eq 600 and 400 masteron
You would grow pretty similar?

in general, it is obvious that some compounds will be better suited for cutting and others for the growth phase, but in general, in the end, the amount of muscle mass gained will not differ in any significant way - personally I do not like dht in the offseason because their effect on cholesterol is significant for most people

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I haven't had the chance to discuss

- personally I do not like dht in the offseason because their effect on cholesterol is significant for most people

I think it's dose dependent. 200 mgs masteron may be about the same risk cholesterol effects, as a standard testosterone replacement dose. Other possible effect I may notice is prostate enlargement. More time on the toilet. Not totally sure if related to dht base steroid like masteron.

The fact masteron increases free testosterone.

 

[omoplata]

.... it is obvious that some compounds will be better suited for cutting and others for the growth phase....

I know this sounds dumb but why are some compounds more suited to cutting?

Its not like some steroids really burn much more fat than others. Yes tren may burn just a touch more fat than others, but surely it won't make much difference.
Then the question becomes, "are some steroids really that much better than others for retaining muscle" and again, I do not think so. Will tren really do so much better than others for retaining mass during a cut? I don't think so -not trying to be a dick... just my 2 cents

Finally the whole estrogen thing. I absolutely do not believe that having high estrogen levels will cause the accumulation of fat or prevent you from losing fat. Yes very high estrogen will absolutely cause sides, but can anyone here actually say that they lost less fat during a cycle because their estrogen levels were too high????

Yes some compounds will harden you and some will make you hold water. But isn't it enough to worry about that during the last 4-5 weeks?

Is there a sense in worrying about holding water and hardening with 16 weeks to go to the show?

I absolutely mean no disrespect to guys like you who are in the trenches. I never competed myself and am here to learn from you guys.

 

[luki7788]

I know this sounds dumb but why are some compounds more suited to cutting?

Its not like some steroids really burn much more fat than others. Yes tren may burn just a touch more fat than others, but surely it won't make much difference.
Then the question becomes, "are some steroids really that much better than others for retaining muscle" and again, I do not think so. Will tren really do so much better than others for retaining mass during a cut? I don't think so -not trying to be a dick... just my 2 cents

Finally the whole estrogen thing. I absolutely do not believe that having high estrogen levels will cause the accumulation of fat or prevent you from losing fat. Yes very high estrogen will absolutely cause sides, but can anyone here actually say that they lost less fat during a cycle because their estrogen levels were too high????

Yes some compounds will harden you and some will make you hold water. But isn't it enough to worry about that during the last 4-5 weeks?

Is there a sense in worrying about holding water and hardening with 16 weeks to go to the show?

I absolutely mean no disrespect to guys like you who are in the trenches. I never competed myself and am here to learn from you guys.

If you think that tren does not protect the muscles better than other steroids, then make a cut with and without tren - you will see what the difference is

The second complete stupidity "estrogen will not hinder fat burning or accelerate its accumulation" - then why do women have such a huge problem peeling glutes and hamstrings...?

anyway, the same with bodybuilders who like mega high test and often lead it to the very end of preparation - they are never peeled to the bone

 

[NEMSZ]

If you think that tren does not protect the muscles better than other steroids, then make a cut with and without tren - you will see what the difference is

The second complete stupidity "estrogen will not hinder fat burning or accelerate its accumulation" - then why do women have such a huge problem peeling glutes and hamstrings...?

anyway, the same with bodybuilders who like mega high test and often lead it to the very end of preparation - they are never peeled to the bone

@luki7788 I’ve read 2 different things for the most part when it comes to Estro and getting/staying lean;

#1 is to keep Estro on the lower end because it causes water retention, bloat, puffiness and harder to lose fat..

#2 is that it needs to be a certain ratio, not necessarily a set number.. That estrogen is needed for muscle building and fat loss etc just in the right ratio to Testosterone, that it’s when the ratio is off that it causes problems??

For example let’s just say it’s a 1:20 ratio for easy numbers, if you have a Test level of 800 and an Estro level of 40 then you’re ok, but if you increase your Test level to 2000 then Estro needs to be around 100 for the correct ratio and muscle building/fat loss etc…

Is there any accuracy to that in your experience? Or do you (and for your athletes) just try to keep estrogen on the lower end always??

 

[omoplata]

If you think that tren does not protect the muscles better than other steroids, then make a cut with and without tren - you will see what the difference is

The second complete stupidity "estrogen will not hinder fat burning or accelerate its accumulation" - then why do women have such a huge problem peeling glutes and hamstrings...?

anyway, the same with bodybuilders who like mega high test and often lead it to the very end of preparation - they are never peeled to the bone

I respect your experience
Though this is not a fair point

then why do women have such a huge problem peeling glutes and hamstrings...?

we cannot reach conclusions based on this because women have so much about them that is different. Most importantly, they grow up in a high estrogen / low test environment and their entire genetic makeup
is different. A women given a man's trt dose of testosterone will not begin to look or function like a male. She will become more masculine, yes. But a women who has as much test as a regular guy is a very very different person compared to a male because she did not have high test during her developmental period.

Same with a fully developed man who has high estrogen for a period of 20 weeks. HE will not at all function in any manner similar to a female

 

[KingOfSushi]

I respect your experience
Though this is not a fair point

we cannot reach conclusions based on this because women have so much about them that is different. Most importantly, they grow up in a high estrogen / low test environment and their entire genetic makeup
is different. A women given a man's trt dose of testosterone will not begin to look or function like a male. She will become more masculine, yes. But a women who has as much test as a regular guy is a very very different person compared to a male because she did not have high test during her developmental period.

Same with a fully developed man who has high estrogen for a period of 20 weeks. HE will not at all function in any manner similar to a female

Estrogen is know to increase body fat, this isn’t bro science.

 

[luki7788]

@luki7788 I’ve read 2 different things for the most part when it comes to Estro and getting/staying lean;

#1 is to keep Estro on the lower end because it causes water retention, bloat, puffiness and harder to lose fat..

#2 is that it needs to be a certain ratio, not necessarily a set number.. That estrogen is needed for muscle building and fat loss etc just in the right ratio to Testosterone, that it’s when the ratio is off that it causes problems??

For example let’s just say it’s a 1:20 ratio for easy numbers, if you have a Test level of 800 and an Estro level of 40 then you’re ok, but if you increase your Test level to 2000 then Estro needs to be around 100 for the correct ratio and muscle building/fat loss etc…

Is there any accuracy to that in your experience? Or do you (and for your athletes) just try to keep estrogen on the lower end always??

in most people, e2 at the level of 100 and more will cause side effects and gynecomastia, regardless of how high the testosterone level is - from observation and experience after years, I conclude that e2 around 50-60 is the most optimal for the offseason, counting profits and losses

 

[NEMSZ]

in most people, e2 at the level of 100 and more will cause side effects and gynecomastia, regardless of how high the testosterone level is - from observation and experience after years, I conclude that e2 around 50-60 is the most optimal for the offseason, counting profits and losses

Thanks for the free game you always give on here Luki..

Perfect, my Test levels currently are 1500-1600 on 200mg per week and Estro is 45 with no AI or anything…

Thinking about slowly making my way up to 500mg (I know, it’s baby doses to you ) but I’d like for everything to be on point so was wondering what Estro levels I should be looking at..

I haven’t been on anything above TRT since 2017.. So this will be nice for me…

 

[goback2013]

Thanks for the free game you always give on here Luki..

Perfect, my Test levels currently are 1500-1600 on 200mg per week and Estro is 45 with no AI or anything…

Thinking about slowly making my way up to 500mg (I know, it’s baby doses to you ) but I’d like for everything to be on point so was wondering what Estro levels I should be looking at..

I haven’t been on anything above TRT since 2017.. So this will be nice for me…

Do you expect that 500mg may throw off or reduce libido ?
Seems more isn't better in terms of libido when test dose is increased.
But then again some will sacrifice libido for increased muscle. Just curious to hear your perspective and/or others.

 

[NEMSZ]

Do you expect that 500mg may throw off or reduce libido ?
Seems more isn't better in terms of libido when test dose is increased.
But then again some will sacrifice libido for increased muscle. Just curious to hear your perspective and/or others.

Not at all.. I’m more concerned with possible water retention/bloat than decreased libido at that dose.. Albeit not a large dose by anyone’s standards…

I’ve taken higher doses in the past and never had libido issues with the exception of experimentation with doses, compounds and no AI etc when I was younger, but couldn’t tell you the details as it was 10+ years ago..

I do know that when I’m in a certain range my libido is insatiable, like I can go 3-5x a day and have no problem, it’s almost annoying.. But that’s with my Test levels in the 800-900 range..

Below or above that my libido is still pretty strong but not annoying to the point I can’t stop thinking about it all day.. lol

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Do you expect that 500mg may throw off or reduce libido ?
Seems more isn't better in terms of libido when test dose is increased.
But then again some will sacrifice libido for increased muscle. Just curious to hear your perspective and/or others.

I can’t tell if you’re serious here

 

[Sacario]

We should have our Latinas fight so at least one of us can be free.

On a serious note, I really can't take tren if I know I'm going to be around certain people. After a few weeks it makes me really irritable.

Mine watches a lot of murder mysteries