I am going to use this thread as a segue if possible to educate and also so i dont have to write separate emails to multiple people.
About 4-5 times over the last 4 months i get emails or pms from people on this board about making products for them
let me explain to everyone why I either dont reply or im kind of short in my email back (its alot to explain)
Lets say this was a few years back and Knight9 came to me and said "Dante i want to make my own protein company and supplement company...i want to start with proteins"
My reply would have been
"ok man lets do it...what do you want?"
Knight9: "id like to start with 20 chocolate 20 vanilla 20 strawberry 2 pounders and 5 pounders and the mix is 20% micellar 20% egg white and 60% whey isolate"
Me: Ok knight9 here is the quote and we can start making them and getting them over to you anytime you want!
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Nowadays: whole new ballgame....everyone complained that the FDA should regulate the supplement industry and they listened. They came in and put the brass tacks down. You saw supplement companies fold up and die off...you saw 35 buck 5 pound containors of protein powder turn into 64 dollar 5 pound containors of protein powder. There is a reason for that, all the high priced employees you need to have paperwork wise for the FDA, all the testing you must do and pretty much everything CFR 111
So and i hope you dont get mad at me (guy who pmed me today) but im going to use your PM to explain this (ill keep it anonymous and your supplements anonymous) to show what happens nowadays
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What's up Dante?
I am sure you get tons of these questions, but one of my coworker is dying to get information on how much it would cost to manufacture a BLANKED OUT supplement.
Can I ask why you guys at TN have not put out a BLANK blend?
I am just doing my research and considering options as I feel BLANK have untapped potential for a market.
I wanted to see about adding the following compounds in these quantities for 1 capsule, with a serving size of 2 capsules:
500mg BLANK
50mg BLANK
100mg BLANK
250mg BLANK
125mg BLANK
250mg BLANK
What would be the minimum order quantity, how much would it cost per bottle and for the total MOQ?
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So this is Dante again and let me explain this.
According to all the FDA rules put into place i have to test for microbe, purity, identity, potency on every ingredient coming into the warehouse, after the mix to make sure it is not adulterated at all, and then again at the completion. Each of these tests cost alot of money. So you are looking at about 175 to 300 dollars for each ingredient in your bottle so there is 6 ingredients x 300 so that is about 1800 each time = hypothetically 5400 just in testing ok.
So now we add ingredient cost, plastic cost, top cost, label cost, and labor cost and 5400 in testing.
So the question i always get is "hey what can my minimums be?"
Well if you wanted 100 bottles and you have 5400 in testing before any other cost----thats already 54 dollars a bottle in cost for testing....just for testing and before you even add anything else!
So now you see why no custom manufacturer wants to touch anyone who wants to do below 5000 jugs of protein of one size and one flavor, or touch anyone who will do below 500 thousand capsules usually because at those levels the cost of all the testing and paperwork you must do to produce a product can be lost in the cost....where it cant be lost in 100 bottles.
So the above product....everything would come in 25kg containors so you are going to have to buy six 25kg containors just to get those raw materials because with the new FDA rules thats how we are going to have to test them (in batches---so you can use the same batch when you reproduce the product) but you will still have to do rounds of testing again when you remake this.
So i looked up the price of just one of your ingredients.
the cost of it is 45 dollars per kilogram x 25 kilograms is 1125 dollars
so lets hypothetically say that the rest of your materials cost the same
cost of materials = 6750 cost of testing = 5400
plastic, top, seal, labor, label, paperwork labor...you are already at 12150 before any of that.
Lets hypothetically say i could get all that done for 47500 for 5000 bottles...so now you are at 52900 for one product in your line of 5000 bottles. I would probably work with you and make your minimum smaller and i would probably give you the Dante deal and make these bottles for less than 9 dollars a bottle but i wanted to show you hypothetical numbers
Do you see how the FDA has taken the small time entrepeneur right out of the supplement business? Who has 53 thousand dollars to make just one product?
If knight9 wanted to make 2 pound and 5 pound jugs of protein nowadays in choc straw and vanilla
I have to test purity identity and potency pre during and post so many times it would make his head spin! i have to test the middle and ending batches on each of those 6 proteins (2lb choc stra van) (5lb choc straw van) and the beginning ingredients (every single ingredient in there (micellar, whey, egg white, flavoring sweetener) on the beginning batch....Thats why manufacturers dont want to make anything less than 5000 jugs of one flavor and one size....so knight9 would have to make 30 thousand jugs of protein to get into the protein business and he would have to test for everything.....so lets throw out 20bucks for 2lb jugs and 50bucks for 5 pound jugs------he gets into the protein business for 300 thousand for 2 pounders and 750 thousand for 5 pounders....1 million dollars to get into the protein business!!! This has pissed me off to no end over the last few years and why you see the small time entrepeneur who i used to be able to help, but now i cant do anything to help him because of the FDA rulings. Now again i would probably be the good guy and make knight9 minimums 500 jugs of each flavor and each size which nobody else would touch but that still means 100 grand to get into a bottom line protein business. It irritates me to no end because i want to help people in the sport but the FDA has all our hands tied. There are people doing things in back alleys under the radar....but thats not a good scenario and its not an if but when they find you and you deal with those consequences.
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