Year Round AAS Use

[bgmke7]

i think the reason you guys are finding that noone is listening is that you are trying to TELL people what to do and if you remember when you were young,anything you were told not to do,you did it.........its the same thing with most of these kids.just because you went through it doesnt mean that someone else doesnt have to go through too.some people can take what others have learned and use that information to better themselves, but some people have to make the same mistakes also.when i was 18 nobody could tell me i was wrong it what i was doing,i had to learn everything the hard way................im sure you get what im saying here.i try not be concerned about what people are going to do with their own lives and give information that i have obtained from my experiences and then let others do with it what they want.yeah it may be bad if some young kid comes on here and reads one thread where someone is taking 2grams of test with dbol,anadrol,and deca and then turns off his computer only to emulate what he just read(but thats life,he would have done something stupid regardless)...........if we are here to babysit everyone then this board should be just shut down.everyone here is here to share information and talk about what we love to do(bodybuilding).it is always good to have a broad base of information and to do this you will have people who have pushed the envelope to extremes.........why are these people looked at as bad people.if all everyone is going to admit to(from fear of getting ridiculed) is taking 1cc of cyp and 10mg of dbol thern what is there to be learned..........i thought this was supposed to be a community that stuck together........all i see i everyone attacking everyone else based on opinions.isnt that all we have anyway???????????

 

[GoneForever]

Heres an aritcle about recovery ALR wrote a while back. I don't agree with all this methods, but this is pretty good if you tweak a few things:

Blasting Big Balls Protocol: (right from the book)
Day
1. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
2. Lupron .35 mg
3. Lupron .35 mg
4. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
5. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
6. Lupron .35 mg
7. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
8. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Pergonal
9. HCG 2000iu
10. Pergonal
11. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg
12. Pergonal/HCG 2000iu
13. Pergonal
14. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/HCG 2000iu
15. Pergonal
16. HCG 2000iu
17. Pergonal
18. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg
19. Pergonal/HCG 2000iu
20.
21. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/HCG 2000iu
22. Lupron .35 mg
23. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
24. Lupron .35 mg
25. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
26. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
27. Lupron .35 mg
28. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
Pergonal is HMG comes in 75 iu of FSH and 75 iu of LH per single dose vial. And it is a Sub-Q. Generic version is IM. About $11.
It says that in almost all cases where HPTA function has been inhibited by the negative feedback loop due to AAS use, activity can be restored in about THREE months. The key factors are:
1.) Control or elimination of negative feedback loops factors such as estrogen and prolactin.
2,) Reinitiating of pituitary and testes function.
Okay, so the use of an anti-prolactin like cabergoline or bromocriptine is needed, as is an anti-aromatase (anti-estrogen) such as Arimidex or Formastane for elimination of negative feedback loops. Reinitiating of the pituitary glands and testes function is a matter of supplying GnRH, LH and FSH in the correct sequence to avoid additional feedback loops.

 

[GoneForever]

I personally feel he should have included a real PCT after this one though. This PCT will still keep you shut down, so I recommed following something similar, but changing the HCG around. I suggest for the 1st shot to use 1000iu, and then use 500iu ED throughout instead of the big 2000iu blasts. Then when this whole protocol is over, run a month of nolvadex and clomid. 2weeks of 20mg nolva with 100mg clomid and 2weeks of 10-20mg nolva with 50mg clomid.

BTW, everything seems attainable to get except lupron. HMG is here now fellas. Hit up USABULK.

 

[dragonfire101]

lupron and hmg are hard to get and expensive so the above is not pratical for most.

 

[GoneForever]

Our new sponsor USABULK has HMG at a very very reasonable price. But yah, lupron seems hard to find and expensive.

 

[palehorse51]

Who in this thread recommended 1 gram+/wk of anything?? I Didnt see it. I saw some guys asking about staying on year round with HRT level doses of test done in between "blast" phases. Can we get back to this?

Also, there is no way I'm buyin the whole HCG, clomid, nolva, cabergoline, HMG,lupron, pergonal blah, blah, blah as being the "safe" way to "kick start your balls" or "balls blast off" or "nut cracker" or whatever.Who thinks all of that is somehow going to make you "healthy"??? Or is somehow safer and healthier than just staying on a HRT maintenance test dose? I think that old way of thinking is gonna be gone with the "handful of Dbol" recomendations of yesteryear. You can take all of that and when it wears off in 2 weeks, the depression and fatigue will set in. Regardless, if you take AAS, you will NOT feel the same again without it. The test threshold in your body is now at a higher set point. If anything, as someone stated, it takes TIME for your body to adjust.However Nolva, hcg, clomid have their good qualities for sure. Anti E's year long??? was one of my questions.

I appreciate the guys that have been there, done that, sharing their experience. it is very valuable. but, you arent the only ones with kids. I love my kids more than anything. I was fucked up from injuries. Looked like shit, felt like shit. Depressed from not being able to train. Now that im back on cycle(500mg test e, 400-600mq EQ WK) I am feeling great, working hard, training hard, confident, energetic, more focus. If Gear makes me do all these things I will be a better parent because I will have the energy and confidence to be at my kids activities. You dont have to compete to use gear.

 

[Magnum]

Heres an aritcle about recovery ALR wrote a while back. I don't agree with all this methods, but this is pretty good if you tweak a few things:

Blasting Big Balls Protocol: (right from the book)
Day
1. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
2. Lupron .35 mg
3. Lupron .35 mg
4. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
5. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
6. Lupron .35 mg
7. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
8. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Pergonal
9. HCG 2000iu
10. Pergonal
11. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg
12. Pergonal/HCG 2000iu
13. Pergonal
14. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/HCG 2000iu
15. Pergonal
16. HCG 2000iu
17. Pergonal
18. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg
19. Pergonal/HCG 2000iu
20.
21. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/HCG 2000iu
22. Lupron .35 mg
23. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
24. Lupron .35 mg
25. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg
26. Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
27. Lupron .35 mg
28. Cabergoline .25mg/Formastane 250mg/Lupron .35mg/HCG 2000iu
Pergonal is HMG comes in 75 iu of FSH and 75 iu of LH per single dose vial. And it is a Sub-Q. Generic version is IM. About $11.
It says that in almost all cases where HPTA function has been inhibited by the negative feedback loop due to AAS use, activity can be restored in about THREE months. The key factors are:
1.) Control or elimination of negative feedback loops factors such as estrogen and prolactin.
2,) Reinitiating of pituitary and testes function.
Okay, so the use of an anti-prolactin like cabergoline or bromocriptine is needed, as is an anti-aromatase (anti-estrogen) such as Arimidex or Formastane for elimination of negative feedback loops. Reinitiating of the pituitary glands and testes function is a matter of supplying GnRH, LH and FSH in the correct sequence to avoid additional feedback loops.

JESUS!!! OK so some of you guys come on here and post how dangerous steroids can be and I'm not debating that but then I see shit like this posted and it pisses me off. Who in their right freakin mind would take these drugs!!! Lupron shuts down test production and is a deadly drug. As far as I'm concerned it killed my Dad. The sides on some of these other drugs are pretty bad too. Do some research people!!!! Some of these drugs are very toxic drugs that are used on cancer patients that are going to die anyway. Plus, this so called pct therapy cycle is the equivalent of killing a fly with a missle.

 

[bgmke7]

JESUS!!! OK so some of you guys come on here and post how dangerous steroids can be and I'm not debating that but then I see shit like this posted and it pisses me off. Who in their right freakin mind would take these drugs!!! Lupron shuts down test production and is a deadly drug. As far as I'm concerned it killed my Dad. The sides on some of these other drugs are pretty bad too. Do some research people!!!! Some of these drugs are very toxic drugs that are used on cancer patients that are going to die anyway. Plus, this so called pct therapy cycle is the equivalent of killing a fly with a missle.

KILLING A FLY WITH A MISSLE............that was funny

 

[LATS]

guys.. the problem as i see it.. is that no one wants take responsibilty for actions anymore.. bodybuilding is not responsible for "gay for pay".. no one puts a gun to ones head and tells ya to do it.. you choose to do it.. it makes no difference to me what one does in his private life.. if ya want to do gay for pay.. so be it.. but, bodybuilding did not make ya do it.. if you dont want to do it.. and have no contract.. then GET A JOB!!! like the rest of us.. get a job..make some money.. and try to pursue your goals that way.. if ya cant do it with a job.. then YA CANT DO IT..
for most bodybuilding is just a hobby.. if it is the goal of you to be the best built guy in your town.. the go for it.. but, if ya have to take insane cycles to do it.. TAKE UP BOWLING.. it is not meant to be.. i remeber my buddy dave telling me " if ya cant win a state title with 600 test and 400 deca it aint worth it"... you know guys doing insane cycles..I MEAN INSANE.. why? guys you are responsible for your actions..
i get tired of hearing people posting their health problems and then posting cycles that i would never, ever consider.. they tell us of the dangers of steroids and how they messed them up.. WHAT?? YOU DID IT!!.. most of these threads have the person never taking responsablity for their actions.. (baldnazi stood up and said he over did it.. and that is what caused his problems.. he has always been a standup guy and i respect the fact that he knows he pushed the limits).. it is always "the steroids did it to me".. next time i see one of the threads i want the post to state "HERE IS HOW I SCREWED UP".. steroids screwed up my kidneys, my liver, my life ect ect blah blah.... you all have free will and everyone.. and i mean everyone knows that mega doses of tren, anadrol, dbol ect will do that eventually.. guys.. everything is dose related.. everything.. from drinking to over the counter medicines.. take too much.. bam.. it bites ya in the ass.. steroids did not hurt ya.. THE DOSE YA TOOK DID.. it comes down again to the fact that YOU took them.. does 600 test and 400 eq mess up your liver?.. doubtful.. does 1500 test, 600 tren, 150 anadrol screw up your liver or kidneys?.. hell yes.. SO DONT DO IT.. this is the type of crap that gives the anti gear propaganda machine and makes it even harder for those who take gear responsibly and try to stay under the radar..
if i were to suggest anything.. it is this.. stop doing compounds like tren, anadrol.. if ya have to it.. keep it low.. it is all about the dose.. do them at low dose and for little time.. or why not forget that crap and do the "sissy" drugs .. try cycles that are anabolic base.. if your after a great build and "freak" status that the vast majority of people will envy.. anabolic based cycles will do the job nicely with out all the bloat, higher bp, organ strain.. ect.. a little test.. some anabolic, like deca, eq, winny ect.. no matter what we do.. we will not be ronnies and dorians.. my ego just likes the fact that at near 40, i can still be big.. and yes.. i like the fact that young kids and teenagers think that i am "too big".. (i have a ego.. sue me lol ) and i am happy that i can do what i do and still be healthy and not push the limits..i now do 6 week cycles of fast acting compounds (leaning heavily in the more anabolic compounds) and go off 6 weeks.. or more..
as for staying on all year round.. if your young.. go off and get your axis back on line.. if your a old bastard like me.. i know full well my test levels at around 40 (naturally) are not enough to support alot of muscle tissue.. so when i cycle off.. i stay on 200 mgs of test every 7-10 days.. no need for a real "strict" pct.. i get blood work every three months.. yes.. three months.. full workup every 6 months.. my company pays for one a year.. the other is out of my pocket.. remember .. this is not a slam to anyone.. i just want everyone to be responsible for their action and what they may bring..

 

[palehorse51]

THANK YOU!

guys.. the problem as i see it.. is that no one wants take responsibilty for actions anymore.. bodybuilding is not responsible for "gay for pay".. no one puts a gun to ones head and tells ya to do it.. you choose to do it.. it makes no difference to me what one does in his private life.. if ya want to do gay for pay.. so be it.. but, bodybuilding did not make ya do it.. if you dont want to do it.. and have no contract.. then GET A JOB!!! like the rest of us.. get a job..make some money.. and try to pursue your goals that way.. if ya cant do it with a job.. then YA CANT DO IT..
for most bodybuilding is just a hobby.. if it is the goal of you to be the best built guy in your town.. the go for it.. but, if ya have to take insane cycles to do it.. TAKE UP BOWLING.. it is not meant to be.. i remeber my buddy dave telling me " if ya cant win a state title with 600 test and 400 deca it aint worth it"... you know guys doing insane cycles..I MEAN INSANE.. why? guys you are responsible for your actions..
i get tired of hearing people posting their health problems and then posting cycles that i would never, ever consider.. they tell us of the dangers of steroids and how they messed them up.. WHAT?? YOU DID IT!!.. most of these threads have the person never taking responsablity for their actions.. (baldnazi stood up and said he over did it.. and that is what caused his problems.. he has always been a standup guy and i respect the fact that he knows he pushed the limits).. it is always "the steroids did it to me".. next time i see one of the threads i want the post to state "HERE IS HOW I SCREWED UP".. steroids screwed up my kidneys, my liver, my life ect ect blah blah.... you all have free will and everyone.. and i mean everyone knows that mega doses of tren, anadrol, dbol ect will do that eventually.. guys.. everything is dose related.. everything.. from drinking to over the counter medicines.. take too much.. bam.. it bites ya in the ass.. steroids did not hurt ya.. THE DOSE YA TOOK DID.. it comes down again to the fact that YOU took them.. does 600 test and 400 eq mess up your liver?.. doubtful.. does 1500 test, 600 tren, 150 anadrol screw up your liver or kidneys?.. hell yes.. SO DONT DO IT.. this is the type of crap that gives the anti gear propaganda machine and makes it even harder for those who take gear responsibly and try to stay under the radar..
if i were to suggest anything.. it is this.. stop doing compounds like tren, anadrol.. if ya have to it.. keep it low.. it is all about the dose.. do them at low dose and for little time.. or why not forget that crap and do the "sissy" drugs .. try cycles that are anabolic base.. if your after a great build and "freak" status that the vast majority of people will envy.. anabolic based cycles will do the job nicely with out all the bloat, higher bp, organ strain.. ect.. a little test.. some anabolic, like deca, eq, winny ect.. no matter what we do.. we will not be ronnies and dorians.. my ego just likes the fact that at near 40, i can still be big.. and yes.. i like the fact that young kids and teenagers think that i am "too big".. (i have a ego.. sue me lol ) and i am happy that i can do what i do and still be healthy and not push the limits..i now do 6 week cycles of fast acting compounds (leaning heavily in the more anabolic compounds) and go off 6 weeks.. or more..
as for staying on all year round.. if your young.. go off and get your axis back on line.. if your a old bastard like me.. i know full well my test levels at around 40 (naturally) are not enough to support alot of muscle tissue.. so when i cycle off.. i stay on 200 mgs of test every 7-10 days.. no need for a real "strict" pct.. i get blood work every three months.. yes.. three months.. full workup every 6 months.. my company pays for one a year.. the other is out of my pocket.. remember .. this is not a slam to anyone.. i just want everyone to be responsible for their action and what they may bring..

I was gonna say "GUIDELINES!" Lats, that was perfect!!! Good Stuff!!!

 

[km2000]

guys.. the problem as i see it.. is that no one wants take responsibilty for actions anymore.. bodybuilding is not responsible for "gay for pay".. no one puts a gun to ones head and tells ya to do it.. you choose to do it.. it makes no difference to me what one does in his private life.. if ya want to do gay for pay.. so be it.. but, bodybuilding did not make ya do it.. if you dont want to do it.. and have no contract.. then GET A JOB!!! like the rest of us.. get a job..make some money.. and try to pursue your goals that way.. if ya cant do it with a job.. then YA CANT DO IT..
for most bodybuilding is just a hobby.. if it is the goal of you to be the best built guy in your town.. the go for it.. but, if ya have to take insane cycles to do it.. TAKE UP BOWLING.. it is not meant to be.. i remeber my buddy dave telling me " if ya cant win a state title with 600 test and 400 deca it aint worth it"... you know guys doing insane cycles..I MEAN INSANE.. why? guys you are responsible for your actions..
i get tired of hearing people posting their health problems and then posting cycles that i would never, ever consider.. they tell us of the dangers of steroids and how they messed them up.. WHAT?? YOU DID IT!!.. most of these threads have the person never taking responsablity for their actions.. (baldnazi stood up and said he over did it.. and that is what caused his problems.. he has always been a standup guy and i respect the fact that he knows he pushed the limits).. it is always "the steroids did it to me".. next time i see one of the threads i want the post to state "HERE IS HOW I SCREWED UP".. steroids screwed up my kidneys, my liver, my life ect ect blah blah.... you all have free will and everyone.. and i mean everyone knows that mega doses of tren, anadrol, dbol ect will do that eventually.. guys.. everything is dose related.. everything.. from drinking to over the counter medicines.. take too much.. bam.. it bites ya in the ass.. steroids did not hurt ya.. THE DOSE YA TOOK DID.. it comes down again to the fact that YOU took them.. does 600 test and 400 eq mess up your liver?.. doubtful.. does 1500 test, 600 tren, 150 anadrol screw up your liver or kidneys?.. hell yes.. SO DONT DO IT.. this is the type of crap that gives the anti gear propaganda machine and makes it even harder for those who take gear responsibly and try to stay under the radar..
if i were to suggest anything.. it is this.. stop doing compounds like tren, anadrol.. if ya have to it.. keep it low.. it is all about the dose.. do them at low dose and for little time.. or why not forget that crap and do the "sissy" drugs .. try cycles that are anabolic base.. if your after a great build and "freak" status that the vast majority of people will envy.. anabolic based cycles will do the job nicely with out all the bloat, higher bp, organ strain.. ect.. a little test.. some anabolic, like deca, eq, winny ect.. no matter what we do.. we will not be ronnies and dorians.. my ego just likes the fact that at near 40, i can still be big.. and yes.. i like the fact that young kids and teenagers think that i am "too big".. (i have a ego.. sue me lol ) and i am happy that i can do what i do and still be healthy and not push the limits..i now do 6 week cycles of fast acting compounds (leaning heavily in the more anabolic compounds) and go off 6 weeks.. or more..
as for staying on all year round.. if your young.. go off and get your axis back on line.. if your a old bastard like me.. i know full well my test levels at around 40 (naturally) are not enough to support alot of muscle tissue.. so when i cycle off.. i stay on 200 mgs of test every 7-10 days.. no need for a real "strict" pct.. i get blood work every three months.. yes.. three months.. full workup every 6 months.. my company pays for one a year.. the other is out of my pocket.. remember .. this is not a slam to anyone.. i just want everyone to be responsible for their action and what they may bring..

great post, should be a sticky!
no bullshit, just straight to the point! thanks

 

[km2000]

JESUS!!! OK so some of you guys come on here and post how dangerous steroids can be and I'm not debating that but then I see shit like this posted and it pisses me off. Who in their right freakin mind would take these drugs!!! Lupron shuts down test production and is a deadly drug. As far as I'm concerned it killed my Dad. The sides on some of these other drugs are pretty bad too. Do some research people!!!! Some of these drugs are very toxic drugs that are used on cancer patients that are going to die anyway. Plus, this so called pct therapy cycle is the equivalent of killing a fly with a missle.

I agree with you mag, most people here cant even pronounce some of these words and will have no hesitation puttin them in their body.

Mag is oldschool with most of the gear, and for good reason I belive. This is pretty exotic shit posted above, the basics have worked for many years and will continue for many more. Seems as if we are always searching for an excuse to load on our gear cause we have this great post cycle stratagy that is gonna get our test levels back to normal in a week so we can load up again! I will admit to being guilty of this befor, I was researching all these drugs to take when I was off so I could still make gains and restore my levels so I could get back on and get "Huge!" It dont work that way, Time is what its all about, and I'm glad I found this out early in my life.

Its funny though, most of the time when you see a freak or someone very impressive the first thing that comes to mind is "what is he taking" shit I still do it sometimes befor catching myself and thinking about all the other factors
nutrition, rest, genes, and such. I think it is natural to look for an excuse to compensate why we are not as impressive as joe schmoe.

I am younger than most here and when hearing vets or "old fellas" tell me I had to let my body grow and be healthy and give it time, it really used to piss me off! I thought they were hipocrits for doing the same shit they were preaching me not to. No they were looking out for me and really going out of their way to help guide me! and I thank them for their help now that got it through my thick skull. you have to think of it in their terms, why are they doing this for me, they dont know me, why should they care? truth is I still dont know, the only explanition I can come up with is they do it out of the kindness of their hearts, and we ahould thank them for it!

Its free advise! soak every last drop of it up, and make an educated decision on what is best for you in your siruation.

 

[Magnum]

Bravo Lats. I agree with everthing you said except about the part about not being able to be like Dorian. I still have hope even though it's small.

 

[street]

I think its lats said something really important and that is if you should not have to take more than 600mg test and 400g deca ,eq to win a state title .This should be a unwritten rule of body building.That should be scaled down to suit beginners and intermediates.intelligent people will listen.

I have noticed that some really knowledgable guys get a bit disappointed when there great advice is not heard by the twits.Don't worry more intelligent people are taking your'e experience and insight and putting it to good use .I know I am.I think bulldog 21 quoted that he was learning from you guys Thanks and do not back off on the posts please.

I have read flex since 1983 but I learned more in so many months here than all those magazines put together.

 

[RSR34]

if i were to suggest anything.. it is this.. stop doing compounds like tren, anadrol.. if ya have to it.. keep it low.. it is all about the dose.. do them at low dose and for little time.. or why not forget that crap and do the "sissy" drugs .. try cycles that are anabolic base.. if your after a great build and "freak" status that the vast majority of people will envy.. anabolic based cycles will do the job nicely with out all the bloat, higher bp, organ strain.. ect.. a little test.. some anabolic, like deca, eq, winny ect.. no matter what we do.. we will not be ronnies and dorians.. my ego just likes the fact that at near 40, i can still be big.. and yes.. i like the fact that young kids and teenagers think that i am "too big".. (i have a ego.. sue me lol ) and i am happy that i can do what i do and still be healthy and not push the limits..i now do 6 week cycles of fast acting compounds (leaning heavily in the more anabolic compounds) and go off 6 weeks.. or more..
as for staying on all year round.. if your young.. go off and get your axis back on line.. if your a old bastard like me.. i know full well my test levels at around 40 (naturally) are not enough to support alot of muscle tissue.. so when i cycle off.. i stay on 200 mgs of test every 7-10 days.. no need for a real "strict" pct..

This is my approach now. I have decided that at 34 I will only use Test (Max 500mg) EQ, Primobolan, Anavar, Turinabol. It takes a lot of variety away, but I feel GOOD on 250mg Test and I feel Great on Test/EQ/Var at a combined 1 gram level. I have always had low Test levels and feel like CRAP without the maintenance Test. I care about my health and do not want to use large doses. I get better results now on lower doses of milder AAS because I eat and supplement correctly and train better.

Current cycle is
Powerline Teston 250 @ 250mg E5D
Powerline Boldenone @ 400mg E5D
Anavar @ 40mg per day

 

[GoneForever]

JESUS!!! OK so some of you guys come on here and post how dangerous steroids can be and I'm not debating that but then I see shit like this posted and it pisses me off. Who in their right freakin mind would take these drugs!!! Lupron shuts down test production and is a deadly drug. As far as I'm concerned it killed my Dad. The sides on some of these other drugs are pretty bad too. Do some research people!!!! Some of these drugs are very toxic drugs that are used on cancer patients that are going to die anyway. Plus, this so called pct therapy cycle is the equivalent of killing a fly with a missle.

This article was in MD i belive. Like I said, I don't always agree with Author L Rea's protocols, but the the use of HCG,HMG,clomid,nolvadex and low cabergoline doses does make sense when breaking down what needs to recover/stay low/keep estrogen from rebounding/etc.... I don't know much about lupron and why its in the protocol, but the rest of everything is worth a shot. The key is, don't stay on long enough to have to do this protocol, but if you really want to try and recover its worth a shot.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Also, there is no way I'm buyin the whole HCG, clomid, nolva, cabergoline, HMG,lupron, pergonal blah, blah, blah as being the "safe" way to "kick start your balls" or "balls blast off" or "nut cracker" or whatever.Who thinks all of that is somehow going to make you "healthy"??? Or is somehow safer and healthier than just staying on a HRT maintenance test dose? .

Thats fine and dandy for you, you have kids already. Im not agreeing with the whole lupron conglomeration that was posted above. I feel A Rea likes to make things a little too complicated sometimes to set himself apart and tries to use a pair of tweezers where a sledgehammer will work.
But to say PCT is a waste of time I feel is selfserving for you. Ive seen 3 bodybuilders cleaned out in the last year whose test levels were below 110 (yes 110)....all of them below the age of 32.
This is about personal choices by an individual. I could care less if someone wants to use year round, once a year, twice a year or blast and cruise with breaks in between its their choice.... my posts on this thread are for that individual that would like to have kids one day or who would like to maybe "not stay on year round" (heck or the choice even not be a bodybuilder someday and have another hobby) .....Im trying to give those guys insight on how best to go about to normalize themselves to the best of their ability.
Im all for anyone who wants to do HRT, in fact IM 100% for it and feel its healthier to be on HRT past the age of 40 than to live life at diminished testosterone levels. But there are individuals in this sport 20 to 40 years old that would still like to have children and/or would like to make some choices in their life that involve being "off" for lengthy periods of time (whether it be for hdl/ldl reasons, a change in lifestyle/hobby or whatever the reason)....thats who Im trying to give some help to here

 

[The Wolf]

I doubt Deca had anything to do with it. Never really had a problem with it rather it was the total amount of androgens I was on over the course of that time period is what did me in.

Deca is a progestin(if I spelled it right) when you mix that up with an androgen like d bol, its a recipe for disaster, trust me deca is not as inocent as it looks. So many people have suffered and recovered from hypgonadism and not even knew about. The only reason I was one the lucky/unlucky people to find out was because I was trying for a baby.

 

[thebrick]

guys.. the problem as i see it.. is that no one wants take responsibilty for actions anymore.. bodybuilding is not responsible for "gay for pay".. no one puts a gun to ones head and tells ya to do it.. you choose to do it.. it makes no difference to me what one does in his private life.. if ya want to do gay for pay.. so be it.. but, bodybuilding did not make ya do it.. if you dont want to do it.. and have no contract.. then GET A JOB!!! like the rest of us.. get a job..make some money.. and try to pursue your goals that way.. if ya cant do it with a job.. then YA CANT DO IT..
for most bodybuilding is just a hobby.. if it is the goal of you to be the best built guy in your town.. the go for it.. but, if ya have to take insane cycles to do it.. TAKE UP BOWLING.. it is not meant to be.. i remeber my buddy dave telling me " if ya cant win a state title with 600 test and 400 deca it aint worth it"... you know guys doing insane cycles..I MEAN INSANE.. why? guys you are responsible for your actions..
i get tired of hearing people posting their health problems and then posting cycles that i would never, ever consider.. they tell us of the dangers of steroids and how they messed them up.. WHAT?? YOU DID IT!!.. most of these threads have the person never taking responsablity for their actions.. (baldnazi stood up and said he over did it.. and that is what caused his problems.. he has always been a standup guy and i respect the fact that he knows he pushed the limits).. it is always "the steroids did it to me".. next time i see one of the threads i want the post to state "HERE IS HOW I SCREWED UP".. steroids screwed up my kidneys, my liver, my life ect ect blah blah.... you all have free will and everyone.. and i mean everyone knows that mega doses of tren, anadrol, dbol ect will do that eventually.. guys.. everything is dose related.. everything.. from drinking to over the counter medicines.. take too much.. bam.. it bites ya in the ass.. steroids did not hurt ya.. THE DOSE YA TOOK DID.. it comes down again to the fact that YOU took them.. does 600 test and 400 eq mess up your liver?.. doubtful.. does 1500 test, 600 tren, 150 anadrol screw up your liver or kidneys?.. hell yes.. SO DONT DO IT.. this is the type of crap that gives the anti gear propaganda machine and makes it even harder for those who take gear responsibly and try to stay under the radar..
if i were to suggest anything.. it is this.. stop doing compounds like tren, anadrol.. if ya have to it.. keep it low.. it is all about the dose.. do them at low dose and for little time.. or why not forget that crap and do the "sissy" drugs .. try cycles that are anabolic base.. if your after a great build and "freak" status that the vast majority of people will envy.. anabolic based cycles will do the job nicely with out all the bloat, higher bp, organ strain.. ect.. a little test.. some anabolic, like deca, eq, winny ect.. no matter what we do.. we will not be ronnies and dorians.. my ego just likes the fact that at near 40, i can still be big.. and yes.. i like the fact that young kids and teenagers think that i am "too big".. (i have a ego.. sue me lol ) and i am happy that i can do what i do and still be healthy and not push the limits..i now do 6 week cycles of fast acting compounds (leaning heavily in the more anabolic compounds) and go off 6 weeks.. or more..
as for staying on all year round.. if your young.. go off and get your axis back on line.. if your a old bastard like me.. i know full well my test levels at around 40 (naturally) are not enough to support alot of muscle tissue.. so when i cycle off.. i stay on 200 mgs of test every 7-10 days.. no need for a real "strict" pct.. i get blood work every three months.. yes.. three months.. full workup every 6 months.. my company pays for one a year.. the other is out of my pocket.. remember .. this is not a slam to anyone.. i just want everyone to be responsible for their action and what they may bring..

Awesome post! well stated!

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Lats, so you're saying that people are responsible for their OWN actions??? Where do you come up with these crazy ideas! EXCELLENT POST!

It wasn't my intention in this thread to get preachy. I just thought if I could, for once, just get one post in about the dangers of overdosing, people might think twice about that second or third FULL syringe of god-knows-what.

One of the things I require is the ability to say what I have come to learn and believe is the truth without any restraint. If you hold back and give some watered-down version of the truth, it becomes untruth or at best a half-truth.

I always assume all of you to be adult and intelligent men and women, regardless of age and being so, you deserve to hear it straight.