Responsible Usage: Not another BS low dosage vs high dosage thread

[Yousef12O2]

Nerd

Genuine question why do u keep doing this? If you respected yourself everybody would treat you in a good way

 

[Hyperemia]

Nerd

You're confusing the word nerd for articulate or educated. Don't worry, nobody here thinks you're either. Everyone one of yours posts reads like diarrhea of the mouth. You must be lost, this isn't reddit.

 

[WesternThighs]

I was joking sorry

 

[bbxtreme]

I still love oats. Highly nutritious with a lot of fiber, selenium, and magnesium and you can be creative and mix them with whey, cinnamon, honey, etc for flavor

I eat the hell out of oats. I personally have no issues with them. It’s the one food I crave everyday. I’m the same and get super creative with them.

 

[WesternThighs]

You're confusing the word nerd for articulate or educated. Don't worry, nobody here thinks you're either. Everyone one of yours posts reads like diarrhea of the mouth. You must be lost, this isn't reddit.

Understood

 

[WayBigger]

Settle down. You've been on the board a day and you've started a thread, replied and reacted to a bazillion things already. Don't make it a race to hit 50 posts.

More arrogance.. You're not cute

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Well the phytic acid ensures you absorb hardly any of those minerals, its just a carb source - not a super nutrient dense food on anything other than paper. What foods state they contain and what is actually bioavailable in reality are two different things. I'm forced to agree to the second half, almost anything will taste great with honey and cinnamon in the mix

Getting this thread back on track

I genuinely thought the majority of phytic acid was removed via soaking in water.

Is this not the case? Happy to be corrected if so.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0023643813000431

"Approximately 91% of phytic acid was removed from whole rice by soaking the grains in acidic conditions (45 °C – 48 h soaking). The reduction was caused by the activation of endogenous phytase and leaching of phytic acid in the soaking water."

 

[bbxtreme]

Getting this thread back on track

I genuinely thought the majority of phytic acid was removed via soaking in water.

Is this not the case? Happy to be corrected if so.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0023643813000431

"Approximately 91% of phytic acid was removed from whole rice by soaking the grains in acidic conditions (45 °C – 48 h soaking). The reduction was caused by the activation of endogenous phytase and leaching of phytic acid in the soaking water."

Back on track? This thread was about gear dosages and how to stay healthy while on cycle. Not food and it’s sciences. LOL

I always say “I’ll let you guys take this thread wherever you want it to go.” It’s always interesting to watch where they end up going. Lol

 

[aHarness]

Well the phytic acid ensures you absorb hardly any of those minerals, its just a carb source - not a super nutrient dense food on anything other than paper. What foods state they contain and what is actually bioavailable in reality are two different things. I'm forced to agree to the second half, almost anything will taste great with honey and cinnamon in the mix

 

[IntenseVolume]

Well the phytic acid ensures you absorb hardly any of those minerals, its just a carb source - not a super nutrient dense food on anything other than paper. What foods state they contain and what is actually bioavailable in reality are two different things. I'm forced to agree to the second half, almost anything will taste great with honey and cinnamon in the mix

That’s not true. Sprouting, cooking, baking, fermenting, and soaking all destroy phytic acid. No one is eating oatmeal unprocessed, raw, and dry.

You’re also ignoring the fact that are health benefits of phytic acid.

It can effect some of the nutrient absorption but not enough to matter at all

 

[IntenseVolume]

Getting this thread back on track

I genuinely thought the majority of phytic acid was removed via soaking in water.

Is this not the case? Happy to be corrected if so.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0023643813000431

"Approximately 91% of phytic acid was removed from whole rice by soaking the grains in acidic conditions (45 °C – 48 h soaking). The reduction was caused by the activation of endogenous phytase and leaching of phytic acid in the soaking water."

Yeah it’s literally a nonissue that anyone should ever think about

If we listened to all of the misinformation on food out there we’d be afraid to breath

 

[WesternThighs]

That’s not true. Sprouting, cooking, baking, fermenting, and soaking all destroy phytic acid. No one is eating oatmeal unprocessed, raw, and dry.

You’re also ignoring the fact that are health benefits of phytic acid.

It can effect some of the nutrient absorption but not enough to matter at all

Thank you, that actually makes more sense.

 

[WesternThighs]

More arrogance.. You're not cute

Yeah he’s…idk what his problem is

 

[pimpman]

Lately there have been a lot of threads popping up on here about guys with health scares and who takes what, how long, etc.

As everyone knows I am big on pushing health, supplements and medications where needed.

BUT, I wanted to set the record straight as I think many may have interpreted that as me saying you should “cruise” or “come off” or run “low dosages”.

When I give suggestions it’s in the context of knowing that I am a competitor going for a pro card, who has a medical degree, and that I’m on a board of some of the most elite physiques.

There are NO two ways about it. If you want to achieve a pro card or look like a badass bodybuilder who competes- you are going to be pushing a lot of gear. Period. Unless you are the genetic responser or elite then you aren’t running low cycles of 1g of gear per week. Anyone who says they are is full of shit and in denial.

Furthermore, anything over 1mg of Testosterone per pound of bodyweight weekly IS considered a cycle. Sorry if that blows people’s mind, but that’s TRT. NOT 200mg test, 200 primo and “micro dosing” tren.

So why am I starting this thread?

One I get so many DM’s and questions on here about this subject and two I’m sick of seeing the vets and huge guys on here post less when they post the truth and all these morons jump in who are 12 and tell them it’s made up or that they are going to die. Lol. Go eat your Cheerios kids.

When I turned 30 I promised my wife, myself and future children that I would do this responsibly. And as someone with a medical degree I became hell bent on proving that it could be done. Guess what… it’s not as hard as I thought it would be.

What is responsive usage?

Responsible usage means smart cycles. It means not taking more than you need and increasing dosages only when you hit a ceiling and have maximized food, training and recovery first.

It means not running tren year round, taking orals longer than 5 weeks and ideally only using in prep or a final stage of a cut.

It means maximizing T4 and not jumping straight to T3 or DNP to overcompensate.

But what it really boils down to is not abusing drugs to abuse gear. Not abusing gear to eat like shit or because you aren’t disciplined enough. It means doing cardio and steps daily instead of abusing BP meds and beta blockers. I could go on, but you get the idea.

The goal should be to stay healthy with clean blood work and cardio testing year round. Just because you don’t do regular blood work, monitor vitals or do annual cardio testing does NOT mean that some health issue doesn’t exist. That is irresponsible and denial.

Eat as much food as possible, maximize as much gear as you can tolerate without sides and you will grow. Period. As you push the upper limits or to be proactive take supplements and when warranted add in Nebilivol and Telimisartan to “protect” the heart. Don’t do it because you’re too lazy to do cardio or eat clean year round. If you play with fire you will get burned.

The truth is- guys aren’t coming off cycle these days until they’re retiring or have a health scare (they likely won’t if they’re doing things responsibly). There is tremendous risk in constantly causing large bodyweight fluctuations as well.

And before anyone says Ronnie or Jay came off back in the day. LOL yeah maybe they came off the dosages from 5g to 3g. Maybe they came off clen and high amounts of T3/T4. But nobody came “off” truly. If you need proof of that look at all those guys in their “offseason” then look at them after they “retired”… enough said. Branch Warren said it best when asked if he’d compete again- “I’m done with “those” drugs.”!

At the end of the day guys need to stop abusing things to abuse things. But IMO there is smart way and a dumb way to do things.

I’ll let this thread go where guys want it to go. Just leave your moral judgment out of it. This is a hardcore bodybuilding forum. For anyone who thinks gear isn’t a part of that… well that’s just comical.

I think it would be great for the bigger guys on here to chime in with:

1. What’s your usage like year round?
2. How do you maintain your health doing what you are?
3. What’s an area you could improve on to take it to the next level and why don’t you?

To be fair, I’ll start:

1. Lowest I go now is about 1600mg of gear weekly. Highest I’ve gone was just under 4g which was my ceiling. Usually push up around 3g pre-contest and am currently just over 2g in a progressive phase.

2. I base my gear amount on my health, vitals, bloodwork and testing. I take staple supplements year round and I use Telimisartan 40mg and Nebilvol 2.5mg daily for cardio protective benefits. I have perfect vitals without them, but want no risk of LVH or issues. Jardiance is used when high amounts of HGH and insulin are being untitled. Protects the heart, kidneys and balances BG. I also do 10k steps daily, cardio 5 times a week PWO. Only trace saturated fats. You get the idea.

3. The older I get the more I hate to eat. I also hold back if I’m being honest on gear as I have a strong genetic pre disposition to heart issues on my father’s side. Heart attacks and bypass for him, dead uncles and all at young ages. Even with the best sports cardiologist and all the measures I take it still stays in my head that if I run higher dosages or push on tren that I’m risking that. I do this because I love it so it’s not worth it to me.

Enjoy and hope this continues just like my insulin thread to further make this sport a bit more transparent and safer.

Bro your post seem to get longer every time you post
Where have you been for the last 17 years since you have joined

 

[plane]

That’s not true. Sprouting, cooking, baking, fermenting, and soaking all destroy phytic acid. No one is eating oatmeal unprocessed, raw, and dry.

You’re also ignoring the fact that are health benefits of phytic acid.

It can effect some of the nutrient absorption but not enough to matter at all

I don't get my information from youtube, I've personally used phytic acid to help impair iron absorption and it was very effective. I speak from the top of my head, I don't have to cite google to post on here. We're bodybuilders and anecdotes are valued more than studies here or information quoted from a bias search engine. If you want to believe OATS are a nutrient power house and contain tons of bioavailable magnesium and selenium especially after being cooked- go ahead, you're all grown men here. But don't forget to use common sense. Nutrient depleted soil + a grain with multiple compounds that impair absorption; alongside pesticides and THEN a cooking process which destroys the minerals even further? Yes - sounds like a GREAT source of minerals If you want to eat grains, I'm not here trying to STOP you

Minimising the negatives of any compound I speak on - that's easy to do when one can physically get away with it. One day If you become severely sick or suffer extreme digestive issues - you will reconsider your stances. If you cant speak from personal experience I completely understand - none of you have a problem, so its easy to think 'what's the harm?'

A bodybuilding diet and a diet for maximal longevity are two completely different things - unfortunately some people find this unsettling and have an emotional response - it doesn't change reality.

You can rationalise anything you want, I don't care - but don't blur the lines too much

 

[Hyperemia]

Yeah he’s…idk what his problem is

Don't get too far ahead of yourself. These guys were in a spat in another thread. What he said, still holds true. You seem to be posting just to post. Take a step back and absorb the wealth of knowledge you have access to.

 

[plane]

Getting this thread back on track

I genuinely thought the majority of phytic acid was removed via soaking in water.

Is this not the case? Happy to be corrected if so.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0023643813000431

"Approximately 91% of phytic acid was removed from whole rice by soaking the grains in acidic conditions (45 °C – 48 h soaking). The reduction was caused by the activation of endogenous phytase and leaching of phytic acid in the soaking water."

You soak your oats for 48 hours at 45 Celsius before consuming? I don’t think so, most people here chuck them in the microwave

To everybody else - if nothing comes to mind without searching it up - you don’t need to insert yourself, you have no two cents to share. This is a forum, if I want google results I will use the search engine. I only care about people with real experience. Why is everyone so twisted about me saying some negatives of their comfort food? Just relax. There are negatives in everything, I didn’t come here negatively - I’m being perceived that way.

 

[bbxtreme]

Bro your post seem to get longer every time you post
Where have you been for the last 17 years since you have joined

It’s funny, I turn 35 Sunday and have been on here since I was a young teen. I would watch and learn from the vets and catch up and read every thread on the weekends.

When I got back into competing again at 30 I saw less vets were posting. I thought “man this place isn’t what is used to be with all the serious guys posting and keeping it real.”

Then it hit me like a dumbass- that’s because it was my role and time to pay it forward. If I can help guys on here half as much as the vets and this place has and did me for this sport that’s a win in my book.

Ps. I hate my long ass post. LOL

 

[IntenseVolume]

I don't get my information from youtube, I've personally used phytic acid to help impair iron absorption and it was very effective. I speak from the top of my head, I don't have to cite google to post on here. We're bodybuilders and anecdotes are valued more than studies here or information quoted from a bias search engine. If you want to believe OATS are a nutrient power house and contain tons of bioavailable magnesium and selenium especially after being cooked- go ahead, you're all grown men here. But don't forget to use common sense. Nutrient depleted soil + a grain with multiple compounds that impair absorption; alongside pesticides and THEN a cooking process which destroys the minerals even further? Yes - sounds like a GREAT source of minerals If you want to eat grains, I'm not here trying to STOP you

Minimising the negatives of any compound I speak on - that's easy to do when one can physically get away with it. One day If you become severely sick or suffer extreme digestive issues - you will reconsider your stances. If you cant speak from personal experience I completely understand - none of you have a problem, so its easy to think 'what's the harm?'

A bodybuilding diet and a diet for maximal longevity are two completely different things - unfortunately some people find this unsettling and have an emotional response - it doesn't change reality.

You can rationalise anything you want, I don't care - but don't blur the lines too much

Lots of irony here and emotion here.

Who claimed oats were a nutritional powerhouse? However oats are an extremely healthy carb source.

One day if I have digestive issues or become extremely sick?
Oh like when I had to have my gallbladder removed because it wasn’t working. When I was diagnosed with Crohn’s disease. When I had to have a heart ablation because of wolf parkinson white syndrome that was so severe it caused me to have a heart attack? When I was diagnosed igan kidney disease? Or how about pancreatitis?

There is no harm from oats for 99.9% of people.

Yeah we all know google is in cahoots with the evil masterminds of Quaker Oats. It’s funny when people can’t actually refute something they fall back on “Google the biased search engine”.

You claim you don’t get your information from YouTube but you’re spouting the same nonsense as a Paul saladino, or the old crack pot Paul Chek.
I don’t doubt that it’s common for you to pull things out of the top of your head and other places

Don’t forget to use common sense, and also don’t forget to actually understand how things work in the human body.

You can rationalize anything you want even if it’s utter nonsense and a complete misunderstanding

 

[WesternThighs]

Lots of irony here and emotion here.

Who claimed oats were a nutritional powerhouse? However oats are an extremely healthy carb source.

One day if I have digestive issues or become extremely sick?
Oh like when I had to have my gallbladder removed because it wasn’t working. When I was diagnosed with Crohn’s disease. When I had to have a heart ablation because of wolf parkinson white syndrome that was so severe it caused me to have a heart attack? When I was diagnosed igan kidney disease? Or how about pancreatitis?

There is no harm from oats for 99.9% of people.

Yeah we all know google is in cahoots with the evil masterminds of Quaker Oats. It’s funny when people can’t actually refute something they fall back on “Google the biased search engine”.

You claim you don’t get your information from YouTube but you’re spouting the same nonsense as a Paul saladino, or the old crack pot Paul Chek.
I don’t doubt that it’s common for you to pull things out of the top of your head and other places

Don’t forget to use common sense, and also don’t forget to actually understand how things work in the human body.

You can rationalize anything you want even if it’s utter nonsense and a complete misunderstanding

According to some, that would make him educated and articulate. Idk I’m not pointing fingers or naming names just saying. You know…from “a certain point of view,” sort of thing. I am not disagreeing nor agreeing with that concept though. Just speaking from “a certain viewpoint,” not of my own nor of any specific individual.