National Level Cycle

[DOGGCRAPP]

Magnum: Most Mr Olympias by far have been white. How many people in the world think blacks are better at bodybuilding and how many of these people do you personally know?

a) How many blacks are into bodybuilding compared to whites? The ratio is off the charts numberswise caucasian.
b) How many black guys do you see on these muscle message boards compared to the ratio of white guys? 90/10? 95/5?
c) Now compare those numbers of involvement in the sport to who is elite and who rises to the top in contest placings....
d) Better yet....lets pick 100 bodybuilders to compete from a certain area....you can take Salt Lake City Utah, i dont want that area....Im going to pick Atlanta ... I just got a feeling there isnt going to be too many random big ole white dudes with 20 inch guns hanging around the barbershop in Utah..... YouTube - Kimbo Slice diss 2

 

[flexingtonsteele]

Magnum

1) 71 people have broken the 10 sec barrier. 68 have been west african. Would you say this is due in part to individual genetics, genetics via race or luck

Comparing track athletes and bodybuilders are like comparing apples to assholes? They have nothing to do with each other. Like Magnum said, speed skating is dominated by whites and its a fast twitch dominated sport just like track, and these whites are in good shape, and have huge quads and hams. to magnum and flexington steele

2) do you have a picture of a representation of what you feel is the absolute best a natural can attain?

I dont need one. There is simply a difference in the "look" between a natural competitor and a drug using competitor. This is especially evident as someone diets down and gets into contest shape.

3) is it shelbys training partnbers look that is unattainable naturally or the age at which he has acheived

It has nothing to do with shelbys partner, I dont even know the guy and I agree that there are lots of black guys who have alot of muscle naturally, but theres a big difference between having a good amount of muscle,being a big guy in the gym, and looking great in a tank top. And being sub 5-6% body fat and over 220lbs.

4) do you truely feel blacks do not have the edge in bodybuilding? what do you think is the cause as to why so many people around the world beleive blacks make up the best bodybuilders?

And no i dont believe blacks have an edge in bodybuilding, it might help having better shape and structures as most blacks do, ill admit this, but to say blacks have an edge in bodybuilding is quite offensive to be honest. Its like saying being a black bodybuilder means you can be lazy eat cookies, drink beer, go to the gym, not train as hard as white guys and still look good.

.....

 

[chris250]

COMPETITOR WEIGHT

Rich Gaspari 209 1/2
Lee Haney 243 1/4
Al Beckles 200
Ralf Moeller 288
Shawn Ray 201 1/2
Peter Hensel 240 1/2
Mike Ashley 189 1/2
Gary Strydom (with hat) 229
Phil Hill 222 1/2
Ron Love 222 1/2
Luiz Freitas 219 1/2
Bob Paris 226
Mike Quinn 204
Berry DeMey 227
Brian Buchanan 210
Lee Labrada 176
Robby Robinson 216 1/2
Ed Kawak 215
Samir Bannout 205

Interesting that Strydom and DeMey who are both 6 foot tall weighed in less than 230lbs...and they both look great at that weight...

 

[oreolo]

.....Comparing track athletes and bodybuilders are like comparing apples to assholes? They have nothing to do with each other. Like Magnum said, speed skating is dominated by whites and its a fast twitch dominated sport just like track, and these whites are in good shape, and have huge quads and hams. to magnum and flexington steele

Actually track athletes make dam good natural bodybuilders (recreational anyway) as do ex footbal players. At least far better than the common layman. But i understand your point. On Magnums point about speed skating, not many blacks if any try speed skating so that is truely a apple to oranges comparison. There were not many blacks in the inception of professional basketball, football or baseball or even bodybuildng to be honest.

.....2) do you have a picture of a representation of what you feel is the absolute best a natural can attain?
I dont need one. There is simply a difference in the "look" between a natural competitor and a drug using competitor. This is especially evident as someone diets down and gets into contest shape.

you say you dont need to know what the best truely natural guy could look like......well then if you cant say what the best natural can acheive, how can you say what the best natural cannot acheive? how do you know shelbys friend is not the usain bolt of bodybuilding? or how do you know he hasnt got similar genes to coleman or wheller.

Do you have a example of this look or from what do you base your judgement? what is the absolute pinnicle for the natural bodybuilder (picture wise)

...3) is it shelbys training partnbers look that is unattainable naturally or the age at which he has acheived

It has nothing to do with shelbys partner, I dont even know the guy and I agree that there are lots of black guys who have alot of muscle naturally, but theres a big difference between having a good amount of muscle,being a big guy in the gym, and looking great in a tank top. And being sub 5-6% body fat and over 220lbs...

By the way shelbys friend is 190 in that picture.

...And no i dont believe blacks have an edge in bodybuilding, it might help having better shape and structures as most blacks do, ill admit this, but to say blacks have an edge in bodybuilding is quite offensive to be honest. Its like saying being a black bodybuilder means you can be lazy eat cookies, drink beer, go to the gym, not train as hard as white guys and still look good...

1. I worded my statement incorrectly so I will apologise if it seems like i am insinuating that ALL BLACKS make better body builders than whites. That is an extreme. Remember we are talking about the genetic elite. All blacks do not have better body building genes. I have personally seen only blacks build similar physiques on complete shiity diets and maintain 8% bf on kfc

But also!!!!!!!!


You appear to contradict yourself. If most blacks by your own admission have better shape and structure, then does it not follow that they make the best bodybuilders or at least natural bodybuilders? pls take gear out of the equation for a sec

 

[totalrecomp]

I have no problem believing that Shelby's friend is natty. It never ceases to amaze me the limitations people feel the human body has.

Secondly what if anything does Shelby have to gain by lying? And if he is or his friend is lying and I believe them so what. Perhaps I will go out and train harder, eat better due to being motivated by what someone else has achieved.

In the end it boils down to WHO CARES!!!!

Far more important things to worry about, like deca vs eq, lol I kid I kid.

 

[KillerStack]

Here's another black natural. I believe him. Why? Well he's black, he's been training for 20 plus years, and he had a horrible experience with creatine. I don't think he'd have the balls to try juice after that! Face swelled to 3X its size, and he blacked out completely.

**broken link removed**

I didn’t use any supplements until 1996. Creatine was my first one. Almost was my last one. The first time I used creatine, I read the back and it said take 5g a day for a week. I translated this as ALL at one time. So yes, I took 25g of pure monohydrate creatine at one shot in grape juice. I thought this was the Holy Grail. That day I went from 315lbs on the decline with 6 reps, to 12 with a pump like I had never seen! “Holy shit, it’s legal juice” I thought. After about 45 mins of training, the effects of that large amount started to take its toll. I got nauseous and my face and head got swollen three times larger and I had to drink ginger ale to settle my stomach. I slept in the gym until mid-night, I was out! It scared the shit out of me. I was scared of everything after that. I eventually went back to creatine and haven’t stopped taking it since, in some form or fashion.

What do you think guys, liar or natural?

 

[ICU11b]

Personally speaking, I believe nothing I hear & only half of what I see...

 

[ironone1]

Here's another black natural. I believe him. Why? Well he's black, he's been training for 20 plus years, and he had a horrible experience with creatine. I don't think he'd have the balls to try juice after that! Face swelled to 3X its size, and he blacked out completely.

**broken link removed**



What do you think guys, liar or natural?

liar

 

[Gunsmith]

SO ANYWAY


I'm not carring if your black white , green or purple , lets just say that a national level guys runs a cycle that made up of roughly half of what the origional poster put up , lets say
1000mg test/wk
400mg tren/wk
400mg/EQ/wk
50mg/A-drol/ed

How long would he be able to run that before either stopping for health reasons or having to up the dose cause he hit a platue? I meen , would sombody at the natioal level platue on a cycle of caliber within say a 16 week prep , I'm sure that at 16 weeks with these doses your going to be doing some significant harm to yourself

 

[Shelby]

How long would he be able to run that before either stopping for health reasons or having to up the dose cause he hit a platue? I meen , would sombody at the natioal level platue on a cycle of caliber within say a 16 week prep , I'm sure that at 16 weeks with these doses your going to be doing some significant harm to yourself

Everyone is different, it's impossible to say. Some get lung cancer at 50 and some smoke cigarettes until they're 102.

 

[Magnum]

I base my opinion as to whether I think that someone has juiced or not on how they look not what they weigh. As for Shelby's friend only weighing 190, that have zero to do with him using. I guess Samir must have been clean too cause he only weighed 205. Didn't Shelby say that his buddy will possibly be competing and around 205 his next show? That's almost 15 pounds of solid muscle all natural at 48 years old on a person who already has a good amount of muscle. But hey, he's black so I can easily believe it and his diet is finally on track and his work ethic is spot on. The drug abusers of yesterday are todays naturals.

 

[Magnum]

Here's another black natural. I believe him. Why? Well he's black, he's been training for 20 plus years, and he had a horrible experience with creatine. I don't think he'd have the balls to try juice after that! Face swelled to 3X its size, and he blacked out completely.

**broken link removed**



What do you think guys, liar or natural?

This is exactly the kind of shit that makes natural bodybuilding a farce and pisses me off !! This guy is juiced out of his mind. Insulin GH and Test Suspension are just 3 things that this guy can be using and that would be all he would ever need in fact to get that big. What a shame because there are guys out there that will believe him.

 

[Magnum]

SO ANYWAY


I'm not carring if your black white , green or purple , lets just say that a national level guys runs a cycle that made up of roughly half of what the origional poster put up , lets say
1000mg test/wk
400mg tren/wk
400mg/EQ/wk
50mg/A-drol/ed

How long would he be able to run that before either stopping for health reasons or having to up the dose cause he hit a platue? I meen , would sombody at the natioal level platue on a cycle of caliber within say a 16 week prep , I'm sure that at 16 weeks with these doses your going to be doing some significant harm to yourself

To be honest "this guy" could just run the test and stay huge for many years with little to no sides. The tren needs to go for toxicity reason and the drol can maybe be cycled here and there but really isn't needed and the EQ would be just a waste. I know two guys who have been running 1000 mg plus of test for many many years and are approaching 50. Both are in good health as of this moment. This doesn't mean I condone it, in fact I highly DO NOT recommend it. I'm just stating some facts and we all are different as far as how we are going to accept a drug, at least to a degree.

 

[massnup]

To be honest "this guy" could just run the test and stay huge for many years with little to no sides. The tren needs to go for toxicity reason and the drol can maybe be cycled here and there but really isn't needed and the EQ would be just a waste. I know two guys who have been running 1000 mg plus of test for many many years and are approaching 50. Both are in good health as of this moment. This doesn't mean I condone it, in fact I highly DO NOT recommend it. I'm just stating some facts and we all are different as far as how we are going to accept a drug, at least to a degree.

Are you saying he could run the test with no off time or cycle the test on and off for years at that dose? So you don't think there is ever a need for an oral at all and test will get you up in size the best and fastest?

 

[HUMALOG]

what about this guy..............he call's himself "the nature boy"

 

[Lenny]

what about this guy..............he call's himself "the nature boy"

LOL...I do not know about him but that outfit is def not natural wooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[KillerStack]

The drug abusers of yesterday are todays naturals.

Absolutely. Most of that 1988 O line-up could easily claim they were still natural there in today's climate, where 200lbs is pretty poor for a natural with great genetics and dedication to his food and training journal. Strydom could say, "what, do you think I needed drugs to weigh a paltry 229 at 6'' (or whatever he was)? I was eating 8K calories and training religiously twice a day for many years, plus I have insane genetics. Look what happened when I experimented with steroids later on, I blew up!" The real story is that he was pretty damn close to his max on just steroids there and when he started megadosing growth and insulin his BW shot way up.

That line-up and those bodyweights are a good indication of average weight distribution among genetically ELITE bodybuilders on just steroids for the most part. Today they would be looked at as piss poor failures for using drugs to achieve so "little".

 

[nickman1978]

did i miss something?

when did this thread become a black and white thing?:naughty:

 

[Shelby]

I base my opinion as to whether I think that someone has juiced or not on how they look not what they weigh. As for Shelby's friend only weighing 190, that have zero to do with him using. I guess Samir must have been clean too cause he only weighed 205. Didn't Shelby say that his buddy will possibly be competing and around 205 his next show? That's almost 15 pounds of solid muscle all natural at 48 years old on a person who already has a good amount of muscle. But hey, he's black so I can easily believe it and his diet is finally on track and his work ethic is spot on. The drug abusers of yesterday are todays naturals.

He'll probably be closer to 198 onstage this year, vs. 190 last year.

Last year he ate about 100-150 grams of protein per day (he just didn't know any better, and he doesn't have a big appetite).
This offseason I had him eating at least 350g protein daily (plus a good amount of carbs and fats) and he also started training his legs (well, his whole body) much more intensely.

His lower body is still going to be a bit soft onstage this year. He never gets vascularity in his legs at all (even when his upper body is PEELED). His glutes are nowhere even close to being striated.
He has good overall shape though, and a great upper body. He'll do well but he's doing an open show this year (a regional national qualifier), and I know a couple quality enhanced athletes doing it... so he will definitely have his hands full.

 

[Magnum]

He'll probably be closer to 198 onstage this year, vs. 190 last year.

Last year he ate about 100-150 grams of protein per day (he just didn't know any better, and he doesn't have a big appetite).
This offseason I had him eating at least 350g protein daily (plus a good amount of carbs and fats) and he also started training his legs (well, his whole body) much more intensely.

His lower body is still going to be a bit soft onstage this year. He never gets vascularity in his legs at all (even when his upper body is PEELED). His glutes are nowhere even close to being striated.
He has good overall shape though, and a great upper body. He'll do well but he's doing an open show this year (a regional national qualifier), and I know a couple quality enhanced athletes doing it... so he will definitely have his hands full.

I think striated glutes are over rated anyway. Most guys on stage that have them are still soft in other places. I think it better to be ripped every where else, this looks far more impressive to me. He looks great for his age. He should do well.