10 mg

[ElTigre]

I didn't do exactly what Emeric suggests, but I did try daily injections (cyp) for an 8 week period and can't say it was worth the trouble. I'm posting this to share my experience and the hopes that some of you can point out if I did something wrong.

Mr previous dose was 60mg E3.5D (120mg/week). Labs on that dose were:

TT: 1025
FT: 30
E2: 46.4
HCT: 52.1

On daily injections I did 17mg/day (119/week). After 8 weeks, labs on that dose were:

TT: 778
FT: 26
E2: 58.7
HCT: 47.1

So my TT/FT went down and my E2 went WAY up - highest it has ever been actually. I was surprised by this as I often hear "less Test goes farther with dailies" and that "you need to lower your dose when going to dailies or your levels will be sky high."

I'm afraid that if I were to try 10mg/day my levels would be way too low.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[old timer]

Mr previous dose was 60mg E3.5D (120mg/week). Labs on that dose were:

TT: 1025
FT: 30
E2: 46.4
HCT: 52.1

When did you have your labs drawn?

 

[Zarati]

When did you have your labs drawn?

Wouldn't matter because say his bloods were taken on the last day before next injection, his numbers are still high

 

[ElTigre]

When did you have your labs drawn?

Labs always drawn at trough, just before next injection.

 

[Kaladryn]

Not sure why, but the sensitive e2 has historically come in far lower than the regular e2 test for me. A few years ago I even had them done simultaneously out of curiosity. I’m not on any type of AI so not sure what the simple solution would be to let e2 rise. Next time I’ll get the regular test.

You definitely want the sensitive test, it's the only way to get an accurate E2 level, the regular test uses a cheaper testing method that has a history of being inaccurate. The sensitive test uses a mass spectrometer and a liquid chromatograph and is always accurate.

 

[Kaladryn]

I didn't do exactly what Emeric suggests, but I did try daily injections (cyp) for an 8 week period and can't say it was worth the trouble. I'm posting this to share my experience and the hopes that some of you can point out if I did something wrong.

Mr previous dose was 60mg E3.5D (120mg/week). Labs on that dose were:

TT: 1025
FT: 30
E2: 46.4
HCT: 52.1

On daily injections I did 17mg/day (119/week). After 8 weeks, labs on that dose were:

TT: 778
FT: 26
E2: 58.7
HCT: 47.1

So my TT/FT went down and my E2 went WAY up - highest it has ever been actually. I was surprised by this as I often hear "less Test goes farther with dailies" and that "you need to lower your dose when going to dailies or your levels will be sky high."

I'm afraid that if I were to try 10mg/day my levels would be way too low.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

This is extremely unusual because ALL estradiol in men comes from the aromatization of testosterone. To have a lower testosterone level and higher estradiol you would have to have an increase in aromatization, in this case, a very large increase. Have you increased your bodyfat level significantly (aromatase is found in fatty tissues, with enough fat you can get E2 levels 2-3 times normal)? Or are you using any other compounds?

 

[Kaladryn]

I've been doing 10mg/day (cyp) for the last 12 weeks, which is what I normally do between cycles. Last cycle was 4 weeks of 200mg, 4 weeks of 300mg, 4 weeks of 400mg, and 4 weeks of 500mg (cyp). I just got the best bloodwork I have in my life at 47 years old. Holding on to a lean 215lbs and feeling great, BP was 116/69 at my cardiologist.

Total test: 665
Free test (pg/mL): 126.4 (range 35.0-155.0)
Estradiol: 33

 

[ElTigre]

This is extremely unusual because ALL estradiol in men comes from the aromatization of testosterone. To have a lower testosterone level and higher estradiol you would have to have an increase in aromatization, in this case, a very large increase. Have you increased your bodyfat level significantly (aromatase is found in fatty tissues, with enough fat you can get E2 levels 2-3 times normal)? Or are you using any other compounds?

I understand that and agree - I was also pretty surprised. Both by the lower TT/FT levels and higher E2, and because most anecdotal evidence seems to support smaller, more frequent injections lowering E2.

Both labs done through LabCorp. No differences in weight, body fat, etc.

 

[Kaladryn]

I understand that and agree - I was also pretty surprised. Both by the lower TT/FT levels and higher E2, and because most anecdotal evidence seems to support smaller, more frequent injections lowering E2.

Both labs done through LabCorp. No differences in weight, body fat, etc.

I'd retest with a "sensitive/ultrasensitive" E2 test and maybe go to a different testing location.

Use this to find one the cheapest if necessary: https://www.findlabtest.com/lab-test/

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I didn't do exactly what Emeric suggests, but I did try daily injections (cyp) for an 8 week period and can't say it was worth the trouble. I'm posting this to share my experience and the hopes that some of you can point out if I did something wrong.

Mr previous dose was 60mg E3.5D (120mg/week). Labs on that dose were:

TT: 1025
FT: 30
E2: 46.4
HCT: 52.1

On daily injections I did 17mg/day (119/week). After 8 weeks, labs on that dose were:

TT: 778
FT: 26
E2: 58.7
HCT: 47.1

So my TT/FT went down and my E2 went WAY up - highest it has ever been actually. I was surprised by this as I often hear "less Test goes farther with dailies" and that "you need to lower your dose when going to dailies or your levels will be sky high."

I'm afraid that if I were to try 10mg/day my levels would be way too low.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

on the 17 mgs was it sub-q or im?

on the 17 mgs , how many hours after you pinned was the test done ?

 

[maldorf]

How did you measure out the 17 mg? That is under 1/10th ml so maybe overall you weren't measuring out enough? If you used a small slin pin then it should be accurate though. If you used a regular 3ml syringe then it would be really hard to get that accurate. Just an idea.

 

[ElTigre]

on the 17 mgs was it sub-q or im?

on the 17 mgs , how many hours after you pinned was the test done ?

SubQ. My previous protocol pinning 2x/week was SubQ too. About 24 hours. E2 Sensitive test btw.

How did you measure out the 17 mg? That is under 1/10th ml so maybe overall you weren't measuring out enough? If you used a small slin pin then it should be accurate though. If you used a regular 3ml syringe then it would be really hard to get that accurate. Just an idea.

Thanks - good thought. But yes, I was using .3cc 30g 5/16 slin pins. Very easy to accurately measure.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

SubQ. My previous protocol pinning 2x/week was SubQ too. About 24 hours. E2 Sensitive test btw.

That's really great twenty four hours afterwards. Usually 10 mgs is enough everyday

I did a test three hours after a ten mg sub q shot. Came back at low 200s. That said, sub q like I'm takes a few hours to kick in so mine were reading from the day before.

Look at it this way at least you have some test in your system. Usually sub q after it kicks in is at it's peak for twelve hours then drops off

 

[emeric delczeg]

Hi Emeric I really enjoy your insights. do you have any advice for someone with a degenerated disc in lower back? I can still train, not too heavy but sometimes the nerve pain and muscle spasms inhibit my training particularly cardio.

Stretching exercises.

 

[emeric delczeg]

8 week results are in. I used 10mg Sub-Q prescription Test C/Day and 400mg humanoforte/day. Prior to this I was using @100mg test c + 100mg NPP weekly, split into 3 doses, with 50mg clomid/week, for a year or so.

I had very comprehensive bloodwork done, and everything not mentioned below was in normal range. The hi-lights for me are as follows:

***HDL Ref Range >39***
Start: 20
8 Week: 43

My HDL hasn’t been within range in a decade. My Lipid Profile is really the driving factor behind my testing this protocol, and I’m really pleased with this.

***LDL/HDL Ratio***
1.4 (1/2 avg risk of cardiac event)

***Testosterone Ref Range 264-916***
8 Week: 881

***Free Testosterone Ref Range 6.8-21.5 pg/mL***
8 Week: 20.7

***Estradiol Sensitive Ref Range 8-35***
8 Week: 17.5

***FSH/LH***
0 (I wanted to see if it was possible for LH and FSH to come back with this dose. To this point, no)


Comments:

Strength - Strength and weight are both certainly down, but so is BP, and I’m far less watery.

Libido - Was the best I had ever experienced with the Test+NPP prior, so let’s set that at 8, and average at 5. I’m now at maybe a 6. Libido is reduced, but seems to be coming back lately. I have no idea why NPP increased my libido and seminal volume so much, where almost everything else does not.

Testicles - have increased to normal size, even without clomid or HCG. I didn’t have a lot of atrophy over 8 years of TRT and some modest blasting, but they were down maybe 20% over the years. They really didn't shrink until I started using the NPP.

Joints - NPP did help my joints, and I’m now having some muscle soreness, which I hadn’t had in many years. Curcumin meriva is helping a lot with the joints.

I made some other training and dietary changes that could contribute to these results. I eat way more plants, do more cardio and have been in 300 calorie deficit, I’d say I’m transitioning from bodybuilding to longevity at this point, and this approach seems suitable. Less drugs, more stable bloodwork, but I am probably not going to be making a lot of gains. I have actually dropped weight over the last couple years and my sleep apnea has gone away.


@emeric - do you see people continue to make improvements after week 8? For adding muscle, how long do you suggest to run the 20mg/day before returning to 10 in my case, in my 40's?

8 weeks back and fort.

 

[nothuman]

I've been doing 10mg/day (cyp) for the last 12 weeks, which is what I normally do between cycles. Last cycle was 4 weeks of 200mg, 4 weeks of 300mg, 4 weeks of 400mg, and 4 weeks of 500mg (cyp). I just got the best bloodwork I have in my life at 47 years old. Holding on to a lean 215lbs and feeling great, BP was 116/69 at my cardiologist.

Total test: 665
Free test (pg/mL): 126.4 (range 35.0-155.0)
Estradiol: 33

I downgraded from 20mg to 10mg a month ago so I am expecting similar results based on my guesstimate. Would be nice to have higher testosterone levels but I guess it's worth keeping these numbers if it means keeping estradiol and hematocrit lower

 

[Gators]

what about instead of 10mg / day, 20mg eod, too much of a spike, which causes the E and hemocrit issues?

 

[maldorf]

what about instead of 10mg / day, 20mg eod, too much of a spike, which causes the E and hemocrit issues?

That would be fine, especially if it's long ester. I do mine just 1x a week and do well on that. You could do it 2x a week and be ok.

 

[Gators]

How much on your once weekly shot?

 

[maldorf]

How much on your once weekly shot?

100 mg. Every Sunday.