An American Bodybuilder in Japan

[maldorf]

They may also just commit suicide quietly. Suicide is always high here.

Reminds me of this incident.

Inside Japan's 'suicide forest'

The Aokigahara forest in Japan, the site of Logan Paul's YouTube video that sparked outrage, is known across the country as a place people go to commit suicide.

www.cnn.com

So it is much more common there than in the US?

 

[maldorf]

Suicide rate I found in that article:

"
Japan was ranked 26th globally among age-adjusted suicide rates in 2015, according to the World Health Organization. Overall, there were 15.4 suicides per 100,000 population, which breaks down to 9.2 for women and 21.7 for men.

That figure sits above most developed nations, including the United States (12.6), the United Kingdom (7.4) and Italy (5.4) but below several others, such as Belgium (16.1) and South Korea (24.1)."

People must be really happy in Italy, or maybe its the deep influence of the catholic religion there? Suicide is so very low. I loved it in Italy.

Wow, South Korea is really high in comparison. I wonder what North Korea is, the country wont ever make that public.

 

[alfresco]

Tokyo has a dark underbelly, but it is not anything like elsewhere.

H, have you read the book “People Who Eat Darkness” by Richard Lloyd Parry, a true-
crime book that starts in Tokyo. It's very good in my opinion. I think it may have been
a best seller in Japan. And it did not show the police in the best light.

 

[hawkmoon]

I am act

Suicide rate I found in that article:

"
Japan was ranked 26th globally among age-adjusted suicide rates in 2015, according to the World Health Organization. Overall, there were 15.4 suicides per 100,000 population, which breaks down to 9.2 for women and 21.7 for men.

That figure sits above most developed nations, including the United States (12.6), the United Kingdom (7.4) and Italy (5.4) but below several others, such as Belgium (16.1) and South Korea (24.1)."

People must be really happy in Italy, or maybe its the deep influence of the catholic religion there? Suicide is so very low. I loved it in Italy.

Wow, South Korea is really high in comparison. I wonder what North Korea is, the country wont ever make that public.

I am actually surprised the Japan number is that low.

Several times in my living I have had a train delayed (always on time to the minute) due to platform jumpers.
This is such a popular method that your family will be fined if you commit suicide.

 

[hawkmoon]

H, have you read the book “People Who Eat Darkness” by Richard Lloyd Parry, a true-
crime book that starts in Tokyo. It's very good in my opinion. I think it may have been
a best seller in Japan. And it did not show the police in the best light.

I haven't read it, but know the story.
Police get by because they squeeze confessions, not very good when things get challenging IMO.

Director Takashi Miike makes some interesting underworld films.
Koroshiya Ichi the most well known. While clearly fantastical, they expose the darkness hidden deep in a lot of Japanese.

I met Miike about 15 years ago. As you would expect with such violent films, he was very quiet and reserved.

 

[maldorf]

Young guy recorded a nice short take on why Japanese people commit suicide. Many mentioned social isolation and working long hard hours. It appears that there is no paid over-time there. They work the longer hours but don't get paid apparently.

 

[alfresco]

In Tokyo developers are very, very big players.
One family, "Mori" own much of central Tokyo. They struck a deal with the Occupational Government after WW2 and still reap the benefits today.

My nightclub owner friend talks to me a lot.
He wanted to buy the two story building he has two clubs in. It's old and nothing special. 13m USD (!!).

Ownership is near impossible in central Tokyo unless you count condos.
I live in an expensive area and my rent is about 2500 USD for 65sqm. To buy this space would be about 1-1.3m from what I have seen.
Some people I know rent out condos they have bought in the cheaper areas.

As you move out from the center, of course prices drop.
You can buy a house with land in rural areas for not much, but there is nothing there.

I never applied for a loan as I have no intention of ever buying here, but in general rates a low.
It is difficult to get a loan if you are not Japanese though and will probably need a guarantor.

My cousin lived in a huge beautiful apartment in Azabu or Roppongi. Can't remember which.
It was in the district that has all the Embassy's. Very posh. He was working for Tower Records
(remember them?) at the time. He ran all of them in Tokyo and opened more of them than I
can remember all over East Asia, and managed them all. Tower Records payed for everything,
apartment, insurance, private American school for the children. They could read, write and
speak fluent Japanese. He did nothing put save money. Incredible job until Apple bought
it. They kept him on for a bit (special projects . . yea, right) then they sacked him and he
returned to the states with his wife and children. They had some very good times. I was a great
place to visit, one of my favorites.

 

[alfresco]

I haven't read it, but know the story.
Police get by because they squeeze confessions, not very good when things get challenging IMO.

Director Takashi Miike makes some interesting underworld films.
Koroshiya Ichi the most well known. While clearly fantastical, they expose the darkness hidden deep in a lot of Japanese.

I met Miike about 15 years ago. As you would expect with such violent films, he was very quiet and reserved.

I will try and find that film. Thanks for that.

Have you read the novel Norwegian Wood by Haruki Murakami? It is one of my very
favorite books. I read it once a year just to remind me how good it is. And he is one
of my favorite authors. I have read that he is somewhat (?) reclusive and rarely gives
interviews despite his overwhelming success in Japan. He has written such a wide
range of very interesting books. I read his short stories now and again in the New Yorker
and am anxiously awaiting any new book of his; his writing really resonates with me
(over used words I know). In short, I like him.

 

[hawkmoon]

I will try and find that film. Thanks for that.

Have you read the novel Norwegian Wood by Haruki Murakami? It is one of my very
favorite books. I read it once a year just to remind me how good it is. And he is one
of my favorite authors. I have read that he is somewhat (?) reclusive and rarely gives
interviews despite his overwhelming success in Japan. He has written such a wide
range of very interesting books. I read his short stories now and again in the New Yorker
and am anxiously awaiting any new book of his; his writing really resonates with me
(over used words I know). In short, I like him.

I haven't read Murakami, as odd as that may sound being in Japan.

 

[hawkmoon]

Young guy recorded a nice short take on why Japanese people commit suicide. Many mentioned social isolation and working long hard hours. It appears that there is no paid over-time there. They work the longer hours but don't get paid apparently.

True for a lot of Japanese companies. Power & sexual harassment is also a big deal.

My company being international has a "overtime" portion built into our wage.
This helps them avoid getting sued, and helps us as we get a higher wage with a better tax rate.

People staying in the office well past 8PM is not uncommon, though I do not do it (and still get promoted )

 

[maldorf]

True for a lot of Japanese companies. Power & sexual harassment is also a big deal.

My company being international has a "overtime" portion built into our wage.
This helps them avoid getting sued, and helps us as we get a higher wage with a better tax rate.

People staying in the office well past 8PM is not uncommon, though I do not do it (and still get promoted )

Well, when you are paid with a salary you work as late as you need to. I guess the people interviewed in the video were paid by the hour. Not paying overtime to hourly workers in the US cant really happen.

Are there no unions allowed in Japan?

 

[hawkmoon]

Well, when you are paid with a salary you work as late as you need to. I guess the people interviewed in the video were paid by the hour. Not paying overtime to hourly workers in the US cant really happen.

Are there no unions allowed in Japan?

There are unions, but they are tiny and feeble.
I think for the most part Japanese accept thing like this, right or wrong.

Workers have a lot of rights here though, should people choose to fight.
What happens though is they avoid conflict and suffer the consequences.
Companies know this...

For example in Japan is is very very hard to fire someone after their 30 or so day probation.
The law protect people and as I understand my global org, Japan has the toughest worker support laws.
Basically unless the company can prove they are in deep, dire straights, they cannot fire you.

Most Japanese will fold if asked to leave.
Gaijin like me do not.

A friend of mine was layed off by UBS.
He said, nope, give me my job back.

He fought them for a year, in which they had to pay his salary
They lost of course, and had to pay his lawyer fees.

He went back, found another job, and left.

 

[maldorf]

There are unions, but they are tiny and feeble.
I think for the most part Japanese accept thing like this, right or wrong.

Workers have a lot of rights here though, should people choose to fight.
What happens though is they avoid conflict and suffer the consequences.
Companies know this...

For example in Japan is is very very hard to fire someone after their 30 or so day probation.
The law protect people and as I understand my global org, Japan has the toughest worker support laws.
Basically unless the company can prove they are in deep, dire straights, they cannot fire you.

Most Japanese will fold if asked to leave.
Gaijin like me do not.

A friend of mine was layed off by UBS.
He said, nope, give me my job back.

He fought them for a year, in which they had to pay his salary
They lost of course, and had to pay his lawyer fees.

He went back, found another job, and left.

I bet a lot of workers are let go after that initial 30 days. That's pretty crazy how hard it is to fire a worker.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

South Korea's suicide rate is so high because they have the highest suicide rate amount the elderly.
Nearly half of the elderly in SK live below the poverty life. AND overwhelming attitude that they don't want to be a burden on their family. Crazy to think about, but that's the main reason WHY it's so much higher compared to other developed countries.

Suicide rate I found in that article:

"
Japan was ranked 26th globally among age-adjusted suicide rates in 2015, according to the World Health Organization. Overall, there were 15.4 suicides per 100,000 population, which breaks down to 9.2 for women and 21.7 for men.

That figure sits above most developed nations, including the United States (12.6), the United Kingdom (7.4) and Italy (5.4) but below several others, such as Belgium (16.1) and South Korea (24.1)."

People must be really happy in Italy, or maybe its the deep influence of the catholic religion there? Suicide is so very low. I loved it in Italy.

Wow, South Korea is really high in comparison. I wonder what North Korea is, the country wont ever make that public.

 

[hawkmoon]

I bet a lot of workers are let go after that initial 30 days. That's pretty crazy how hard it is to fire a worker.

In my experience, not really. I know cases where it has been extended once or even twice while they tried to give an employee a chance. This is my company, can't speak for others.

 

[maldorf]

In my experience, not really. I know cases where it has been extended once or even twice while they tried to give an employee a chance. This is my company, can't speak for others.

Must be a good feeling then once you get fully hired after that 30 days. I hope that workers don't get complacent though and become more unproductive later on. Some here in the US seem to think some union workers are like that. I don't have any experience in unions except the teachers' union and I used them for advice once. Its good to have them at your back.

 

[hawkmoon]

Must be a good feeling then once you get fully hired after that 30 days. I hope that workers don't get complacent though and become more unproductive later on. Some here in the US seem to think some union workers are like that. I don't have any experience in unions except the teachers' union and I used them for advice once. Its good to have them at your back.

Some workers under perform and try to exploit the system.
One of the techniques Japanese companies do is re-assign the person to some remote place and stick them in a demeaning job until they quit.

 

[thethinker48]

Was it hard for you to move there, and "restart" your social life there so to speak?

What's the socialization culture like there? Drinking like the US?

 

[hawkmoon]

Was it hard for you to move there, and "restart" your social life there so to speak?

What's the socialization culture like there? Drinking like the US?

That's a great question.

I had lived here a few times; 1994 for a month, 1995 for three years, and now 2007 to present.
The first time, and the start of the second time I got a bit of the blues, as I think I over-hyped the experience in my head.
This happens a lot I hear, particularly people who want to live here as opposed to those assigned as an ex-pat.

I think this third time was easiest as I came after being hired by a large company with a real job (not teaching English, etc) which was more appropriate for a 30 something guy with a family.

As far as daily life, Japan is easy for me as I am a quiet guy usually who is happy to be on his own. If you need lots of friends around it can be tough.
There are a few different mindsets in Japan in regards to foreigners.

First of all we are ranked in in terms of desirability by where we come from. Americans are the top of the list.
Then some Europeans, especially Italians and French, as Japanese love Euro culture (or what they think it is).
Appearance then comes into play, tall blondes will get much more attention, but also intimidate many, so they stay away.
There are the Japanese who love other countries and want to make friends with Gaijin, some girls even dream of marrying an American or European - quite naively.
Some guys will try to chase blond girls, some girls will try to hook up with any foreigner - but these are outliers.

There are few old people left who have a bad feeling towards us. Some older folk just find us strange and don't want us living among them,
We are seen as loud, obnoxious, rude, and selfish. Perhaps not without reason! Lots of foreigners are to be honest.
When the older generation comes into play it can effect us in ways such as being denied an apartment because Gaijin are not trusted.

There is racism here, even though in general they make you feel special. I am as popular as I could wish for, but I cannot get a credit card because I'm a foreigner, even with permanent residency.
Don't get me wrong though, for the most part a decent looking Western Gaijin is treated like a celebrity. Some let this get to their heads unfortunately and crash bad when they go home.
People overall are extremely nice and polite to us, and I personally cannot recall a negative face to face confrontation.

I have built a network mostly through the gym of high-quality foreigners like myself; Americans, Italians, Spanish, Aussies, Irish, Germans, etc...
I don't have any real close Japanese relationships, because most of the pure Japanese I meet in my gym are a bit "grey"; lots of Yakuza and related.
These guys and real Yakuza will often be the ones who approach me though, as they are less fearful than the regular Joe.
I have a few buddies among these grey guys, but avoid getting too close to Yakuza.

Work relationships with most usually stay at work, because the average Japanese thinks being social is getting really drunk as often as possible.
There are often several drinking meetings per week (nomi-kai) and people know better than to invite me. This is easier as they recognize me as a "healthy guy" LOL.

As I don't drink, nor can I tolerate the presence of drunk people, I stay away.
Japanese get really really smashed and pass out and vomit a lot.
Sometimes on the way to work in the morning (I walk) we see young people stumbling around teetering almost into the street, try to hail cabs.
Because Japan is so safe, they don't really fear anything. They won't get robbed, etc.

My wife is my best friend.
She is a worldly, beautiful woman who even trains with me (she even competed recently!)
I also have wonderful daughter who is forever daddy's girl, even though she is 14 next month.
Between them and my closest friends, I have no wants for quality companionship.

This is my anchor, without them it can be tough, especially for introverts. Even a big extrovert will have issues, as Japan will try to push them down a bit.
Because I know ho things work here, and I know the social traps, I also reach out to new ex-pat when they arrive in my company to show them the ropes.
We always end up great friends.

 

[thethinker48]

That's a great question.

I had lived here a few times; 1994 for a month, 1995 for three years, and now 2007 to present.
The first time, and the start of the second time I got a bit of the blues, as I think I over-hyped the experience in my head.
This happens a lot I hear, particularly people who want to live here as opposed to those assigned as an ex-pat.

I think this third time was easiest as I came after being hired by a large company with a real job (not teaching English, etc) which was more appropriate for a 30 something guy with a family.

As far as daily life, Japan is easy for me as I am a quiet guy usually who is happy to be on his own. If you need lots of friends around it can be tough.
There are a few different mindsets in Japan in regards to foreigners.

First of all we are ranked in in terms of desirability by where we come from. Americans are the top of the list.
Then some Europeans, especially Italians and French, as Japanese love Euro culture (or what they think it is).
Appearance then comes into play, tall blondes will get much more attention, but also intimidate many, so they stay away.
There are the Japanese who love other countries and want to make friends with Gaijin, some girls even dream of marrying an American or European - quite naively.
Some guys will try to chase blond girls, some girls will try to hook up with any foreigner - but these are outliers.

There are few old people left who have a bad feeling towards us. Some older folk just find us strange and don't want us living among them,
We are seen as loud, obnoxious, rude, and selfish. Perhaps not without reason! Lots of foreigners are to be honest.
When the older generation comes into play it can effect us in ways such as being denied an apartment because Gaijin are not trusted.

There is racism here, even though in general they make you feel special. I am as popular as I could wish for, but I cannot get a credit card because I'm a foreigner, even with permanent residency.
Don't get me wrong though, for the most part a decent looking Western Gaijin is treated like a celebrity. Some let this get to their heads unfortunately and crash bad when they go home.
People overall are extremely nice and polite to us, and I personally cannot recall a negative face to face confrontation.

I have built a network mostly through the gym of high-quality foreigners like myself; Americans, Italians, Spanish, Aussies, Irish, Germans, etc...
I don't have any real close Japanese relationships, because most of the pure Japanese I meet in my gym are a bit "grey"; lots of Yakuza and related.
These guys and real Yakuza will often be the ones who approach me though, as they are less fearful than the regular Joe.
I have a few buddies among these grey guys, but avoid getting too close to Yakuza.

Work relationships with most usually stay at work, because the average Japanese thinks being social is getting really drunk as often as possible.
There are often several drinking meetings per week (nomi-kai) and people know better than to invite me. This is easier as they recognize me as a "healthy guy" LOL.

As I don't drink, nor can I tolerate the presence of drunk people, I stay away.
Japanese get really really smashed and pass out and vomit a lot.
Sometimes on the way to work in the morning (I walk) we see young people stumbling around teetering almost into the street, try to hail cabs.
Because Japan is so safe, they don't really fear anything. They won't get robbed, etc.

My wife is my best friend.
She is a worldly, beautiful woman who even trains with me (she even competed recently!)
I also have wonderful daughter who is forever daddy's girl, even though she is 14 next month.
Between them and my closest friends, I have no wants for quality companionship.

This is my anchor, without them it can be tough, especially for introverts. Even a big extrovert will have issues, as Japan will try to push them down a bit.
Because I know ho things work here, and I know the social traps, I also reach out to new ex-pat when they arrive in my company to show them the ropes.
We always end up great friends.

Great post!

I think this is the other side of the coin. I think the lifestyle we have already makes us somewhat "outsiders" even in the US, doing it in a different culture with a completely different language has to be tough. Good to hear about your wife and daughter. Your daughter's lucky, she's part of two different cultures, and fluent in two languages, that kind of exposure does wonders in shaping your image of the world; antidote to ignorance.