FDA: “Kratom is an opioid”

[buck]

Kratom will give most all people a buzz given a high enough dose. But to think that you can keep an addictive personality from becoming an addict is some where between ludicrous ans grandiose. Person responsibility has to come into play at some point.

 

[Samson250]

I have use kratom since the late 90’s when there were NO kratom vendors. I knew back then that this shit was inevitable. We never talked about it to anyone, but I knew some morons would start openly promoting it and calling it herbal opiate. Krypton wasn’t back in the day - lol - that’s was maybe 6-7 years ago. Although I guess if I was in my 20’s that might feel like back in the day - !
There used to actually be kratom extracts / tinctures that were stronger than oxy. But the ONLY guy who sold it stopped about 5 years ago. I have seen dozens of others claim that they had the same but no way. His FST and UEI did work too well. I had a hard time stopping - but guess what with plain leaf K it was no problem.
I’ve used kratom DAILY for 15 years at least and a few momnths ago I stopped for a little over a week. Had a little fatigue a few days and had ONE night Where sleep was a little difficult (but I think that was in my head)

What the government is going to do is cause the good vendors to close and the crazy ass extracts will come back because once it’s illegal there will be no reason to try and conform and EVERY reason to try and make a stronger product than the next underground source.
There really are some ignorant / dirty sons of bitches at the FDA.

Your right about those early days man people wouldn't talk about it. I think ive mentioned before how locally when it started to become popular a chain of head shops Im affiliated with began advertising on the radio and complaints poured in from users trying to keep there little secret knowing what would happen

The article stated kratom has "opioid like effects", which is true if it's binding to same receptors. I prefer not to mess with my brain chemicals


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Yeah and that's definitely the right way to do things but this isn't about recreational use like your describing this is about its properties as a life saving compound for opiate withdraw and avoidance.

 

[Samson250]

Kratom will give most all people a buzz given a high enough dose. But to think that you can keep an addictive personality from becoming an addict is some where between ludicrous ans grandiose. Person responsibility has to come into play at some point.

Nobody has ever claimed that Kratom can "keep an addictive personality from becoming an addict". That is a Ludacris statement and your the only one who has made it that I have ever seen.

Gods own intervention cant take the addictive behavior from an addict.

 

[johnjuanb1]

That’s a super good point jj and I think your totally right. They have to excluding those other factors

They want to push their agenda. The truth is ill relevant.

 

[little slice]

LOL


Do you know how expensive oxy is? No one in hell would be spiking anything with it, or any other opioid for that matter.

no



I don't do drugs

 

[johnjuanb1]

no



I don't do drugs

Hugs not drugs!
Say nope to dope and ugg to drugs!

 

[LK3]

What they count as a Kratom death isn’t over dosing. It’s people committing suicide with it in their system which obviously occurred because they were mentally ill.
Sometimes only Kratom shows up in the toxicology report so they blame Kratom for the death which is actually caused by other drugs that aren’t tested for.

I don’t believe Kratom can kill you.

well bro.. that and other chemical realities sum up most "over doses" :banghead:

 

[brownbanana]

When you mix one drug with another, it's doesn't make a combination of the two. It makes something entirely new. It creates a third drug. That goes for everything.

But opiods are dangerous because of the opioid receptors are in the brain stem. The brain stem is responsible for all the vital functions, breaking, heart rate, digestive, etc. The reason someone cant overdose on THC has to do with where the Cannabinoid receptors are mostly concentrated in the mid-brain.

But they are waging a war on opiates right now. The one the prescription companies started.

The problem is, if kratom is effective, why isn't it being used to manage the opioid epidemic?

 

[micro2000]

Every one likes to point the finger at Pharmaceutical companies, but the reality is that the government organizations involved do not require any outside pressure to go after any such products. Self interest is all the incentive they need. They perpetuate their careers and departments by ginning up the next "epidemic" and the media helps them along by showing the sob stories with no perspective. They are staffed by true believers that believe that they are on the front line of protecting the ignorant public from themselves.

And the average person never thinks and just nods their head in approval.

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[brownbanana]

The U.S. consumes some 90% of the world's opioid. That isn't a epidemic?

This isn't something new, the Chinese had a opioid epidemic in the past.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China

As personal as our choice what we do. Free-will. Society has to step in sometimes.

 

[Marvin Martian]

Your right about those early days man people wouldn't talk about it. I think ive mentioned before how locally when it started to become popular a chain of head shops Im affiliated with began advertising on the radio and complaints poured in from users trying to keep there little secret knowing what would happen


Right on. In the late 90's we bought straight from the Indonesian farms. I even dried and ground my own a while.

I cant speak for everyone and everyone has a right to their opinion, but mine is based on two decades of kratom use. I have seen first hand the benefits. Its helped me with pain even my family members (some who would never even have a drink).
90% of current kratom users started in the last 5-10 years and as more people have - the worse its gotten.

Look - you can find MANY things to use in excess and cause shit loads of problems. the FACT is that kratom is safer than almost anything else that can be abused.
And I don't care what any bro-scientist / botanist / herbalist or what the fck ever tells you - it can be used DAILY very safely.

 

[micro2000]

The U.S. consumes some 90% of the world's opioid. That isn't a epidemic?

This isn't something new, the Chinese had a opioid epidemic in the past.

https:/prescribed pedia.org/wiki/History_of_opium_in_China

As personal as our choice what we do. Free-will. Society has to step in sometimes.

I don't know how you objectively define "epidemic", but in 2015 there were 300+ million opioids prescribed and around 14,000 deaths including illegal opioids like heroin. That is a tiny fraction of our population dying and the data shows they aren't dying from prescription opiates alone but combinations of alcohol and or benzos.

As for "society" stepping in, that's a romantic notion but the fact is there is no singular entity called "society". It will be politicians and bureaucrats who "step in" and their only tool is restriction or bans enforced by men with guns.

Freedom never guaranteed security from consequences.

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[brownbanana]

I don't know how you objectively define "epidemic", but in 2015 there were 300+ million opioids prescribed and around 14,000 deaths including illegal opioids like heroin. That is a tiny fraction of our population dying and the data shows they aren't dying from prescription opiates alone but combinations of alcohol and or benzos.

As for "society" stepping in, that's a romantic notion but the fact is there is no singular entity called "society". It will be politicians and bureaucrats who "step in" and their only tool is restriction or bans enforced by men with guns.

Freedom never guaranteed security from consequences.

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Society is as real as the air we breath. Think of Nazi Germany. That's a hive mind. U.S. suffers from a lack of culture, at least, in a unified sense. If you need another example, WWI, total war, every man, woman, and family mobilized.

I dont think Beurocrats and politicians represent society but they are part of it. People still have a voice though. When the FDA banned Kramton, people spoke up. So we have some footing in society.

 

[brownbanana]

The population that abuses the most opiates is middle aged white women. That's why it is an epidemic, it's not just in the ghetto. It's in middle/upper middle class. I agree, it is by mixing the substances. I took part in that conversation by saying two drugs don't make a combination. They make a third (unknown) compound.

 

[brownbanana]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War



"To counter this imbalance, the British East India Company began to auction opium grown in India to independent foreign traders in exchange for silver, and in doing so strengthened its trading influence in Asia. This opium was transported to the Chinese coast, where local middlemen made massive profits selling the drug inside China. The influx of narcotics reversed the Chinese trade surplus, drained the economy of silver, and increased the numbers of opium addicts inside the country, outcomes that worried Chinese officials."

That's called an epidemic.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

The population that abuses the most opiates is middle aged white women. That's why it is an epidemic, it's not just in the ghetto. It's in middle/upper middle class.

Come on man. You gonna make it some systemic racism thing? Oh no, white people are being harmed we better do something? It affects ALL demographics.



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[brownbanana]

Come on man. You gonna make it some systemic racism thing? Oh no, white people are being harmed we better do something? It affects ALL demographics.



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You don't have to agree with me. But i don't see any convincing premises? So opiates effect all demographics? The next question is what is so dangerous about that?

But did anybody look at the link I posted about the Opium War? If you want to disagree with me, then seek truth. Don't assume you already know the answers before asking yourself if you do.

 

[Samson250]

Right on. In the late 90's we bought straight from the Indonesian farms. I even dried and ground my own a while.

I cant speak for everyone and everyone has a right to their opinion, but mine is based on two decades of kratom use. I have seen first hand the benefits. Its helped me with pain even my family members (some who would never even have a drink).
90% of current kratom users started in the last 5-10 years and as more people have - the worse its gotten.

Man you’ve definitely been around the block. Two decades is OG old school man I’m one of those under 10 year guys like you said.

How will the inevitable banning effect you Marv? How hard will it be for you to get it?

 

[Bobby Light]

Just curious but how long have you taken kratom? Have you ever stopped it after say 6 solid months of daily usage? I ask as I know a few guys who have struggled with kratom so that's why my opinion has changed on it. I don't think kratom should be banned as I don't think anything should be banned. It's definitely not really bad and the government are obviously doing it for the wrong reasons.

I will say when I used it I took too much (not a lot) one time and there is no way in a millions years I could train. It fucked me up and I have taken many things in my past so it surprised me. I took it pre workout and had to stay at home for a few hours. So whilst caffeine etc has a strong effect on someones nervous system I think kratom is no different.

I've been using for about 1.5 years pretty much every day multiple times per day. There have been days without it and the longest I've gone is a week without it but my girlfriend and I were in Disney World at the time so its hard to be upset there anyway lol..I definitely rely on it but people rely on coffee too..I will say when I don't use it I definitely feel more fatigue and restless legs when trying to sleep. My anxiety certainly gets worse too.

My girlfriend had been using it just about the same way and length of time as I have. We found out she is pregnant so she stopped cold turkey around 4-6 weeks ago. She was tired for sure but some of that could have been the pregnancy of course lol she's all good now and seems to get a similar effect off of her 100mg of caffeine she's allowed to have per day. Its crazy how your body can become so used to something and then become sensitive again in a pretty short period of time.

I don't plan to stop using kratom but I have started to substitute CBD oil occasionally incase it becomes illegal and all that. I know stopping cold would be rough for me at this point. Hopefully enough people continue to fight it like last time and we won't have to worry about it being illegal.

 

[buck]

Nobody has ever claimed that Kratom can "keep an addictive personality from becoming an addict". That is a Ludacris statement and your the only one who has made it that I have ever seen.

Gods own intervention cant take the addictive behavior from an addict.

You misinterpreted what I wrote. I never said that kratom would keep people from being an addict. What I was saying was addictive people will find something to be addicted to if they don't guard against it. And the government can make laws but as we have seen addicts don't care and will do what it takes to find some thing to suit their needs. I figure kratom is a far better choice then other things as far as that goes.

And as for your last statement many 12 step groups would disagree as they have had great success with the spiritual approach.