Fortitude Training!

[kastro]

The program is well thought out.There are different tiers which add more volume.Best to start with the basic first.The book is totally worth the 20.00 and more,plus Scott is genuinely nice guy

 

[kastro]

Ramping this thread back up. I am generally a PUSH/PULL/LEGS guy and probably always will be in the long run. But, due to work obligations, I can currently only train 4x per week. So I did my research to determine a good 4x per week program for an advanced guy AND I was looking for something completely different than I had done before. As the saying goes, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again, yet expecting different results."

I landed on Fortitude training. 4x per week, turbo version (full body workouts) and so far I am really enjoying it. It kicks your ass. I love being in the gym 6x per week, but with this level of intensity that would be impossible. So 4x per week is perfect. My workouts take about 60-75 minutes and each workout is so unique from the other it keeps you mentally stimulated. When I leave the gym I am a sweaty mess and generally need about 30 mins of just sitting on my couch to decompress. Scott is a smart dude and sometimes he needs to dummy himself up a bit more to communicate to us minions, BUT, if you thoroughly read the book and then compare it to the sample blank workout sheets you will understand it.

I only have ONE (singular) issue with the program that I cannot incorporate and that is the zig zag component simply because I train at a busy commercial gym and cannot access multiple machines at the same time. Otherwise I am using it exactly as prescribed. And it is easy to follow exactly as prescribed because he allows a lot of leeway into exercise selection, order of exercise and priority of muscle groups.

I actually go real late to the gym so i can zig zag.Sometimes it is still hard but i have still been able to progress with the loading sets.

 

[xpoc]

This thread started in 2018 so i would like to hear from the guys who ran it for a while. Or..from those who are still on it. Honestly, as a Push/Pull/Leg guy training 6x per week, the idea of total body 4x per week was not appealing. Now that I have done it for close to a month (out of necessity), I really "get it." It used to kill me to not be in the gym more often. 6x per week, 45 mins per workout...really intense. This is 4x per week, 75 mins, extremely intense and several different strategies (muscle rounds, pump, loading). Here is why I resisted it initially: Does any pro bodybuilder train legs 4x per week? Here is why I now embrace it: No matter how I train, I don't have the genetics to be a pro bodybuilder, nor do I aspire to be one. So, can training legs 4x per week improve my physique? Well, let's find out. I have been on the usual 1-2 times per bodypart each week for decades so if I continue can I expect any appreciable gains? Probably not. So....why not give it a shot?????

 

[beans]

This ebook was great, gonna start next week. Gives me time to decide what programming I want to do. What tier basic/ turbo and exercises. Always wondered how to up frequency while training 4x week, this solves that entirely. And blew my mind on how to do it.
Best 20 bucks ever spent.

 

[Delt123]

I’ve done fortitude training for a couple of months but I think I was too rigid with me. It was a bit too much, even tier 1. I was too rigid with it in the sense that I strictly followed to order of the exercises. Mainly lower loading upper pump, where the program dictates to start of with a quad/thigh movement. For me, if I start squats (or other compound quad work), the rest of the workout is going to suffer greatly.

I train with my girlfriend and that stalled the workouts immensely, as well as the crowded gym. If I tell her to do ‘flat db presses’ she going to look at me like I speak Chinese lol.

I did like the muscle rounds and pumpsets tho and recently been finding myself doing more of these pumpsets since gyms are still closed here.

Overall, I got a lot more out of DC training (which I did/doing after I’ve done FT). But I do miss the monstrous pumps a bit. DC is just plain and simple. My girlfriend understood it and could been preformed at a crowded gym. Can’t ignore what I’ve gained either from it.


But I think I might re-try FT but with a more flexible approach. Lower tier on legs, higher tier on ub, not figured everything out yet.

 

[warlock]

Anyone tried Scott's ebook "The Virgin Voyage: A Basic Fortitude Training Program for your First Blast"? Is it worth the cost?

 

[nspaletta]

I've done FT for a little over a year now and I had a shorter stint a few years back. I think it's a bit advanced in learning it correctly but once you get in the groove and find your rhythm I personally love it. 2 full body days rotating heavy upper pump lower then heavy lower pump upper then 2 muscle rounds days. Learning when to fail is key on this and not over reaching. But aside from all the ramble my body to me looks better training this way then it has in any other training methods I have tried from ppl 6 days a week to dc to high volume. To me this is a blend that combines frequency and intensity with low enough volume to recover and progress

It's an instinctive program listen to your body. Right now I modified it slightly instead of upper and lower days I do push and pull days so I can focus on density workouts with my pull day.

 

[homonunculus]

Interested in this training methodology myself. Going to buy the ebook and read up after the gym tonight.
How do you guys feel this type of training is for adding lots of tissue? Or is it just 1 of the may ways to skin a cat?
I do ppl with progressive overload now. 3x week. But need more stimulus overall.
It's either DC or fortitude, gotta add lots of size.

You can't go wrong with DC, IMO, generally speaking. (Eating enough is going to be of major importance if you're really wanting pack it on.)

You can use different DC splits (two way, 3 way and other's he's posted) to suit your needs, age / training age, etc.

FT has numerous built in ways to customize & auto regulate (important for optimizing training vs. recovery) which you might find very useful. (E.g., there are 3 volume Tiers to choose from...)

-S

 

[opietaylor]

off topic but worth a mention. didnt know if these would still be available but a quick search and there it is.

SeriousGrowth.com

Optimum Training Systems is dedicated to helping you reach your body's fastest rate of muscle growth and strength increase. We are not focused on top speed, instead we are obsessed with acceleration. What do I mean by that? Any professional bodybuilder or power lifter can tell you what they did...

seriousgrowth.com

 

[homonunculus]

Ramping this thread back up. I am generally a PUSH/PULL/LEGS guy and probably always will be in the long run. But, due to work obligations, I can currently only train 4x per week. So I did my research to determine a good 4x per week program for an advanced guy AND I was looking for something completely different than I had done before. As the saying goes, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again, yet expecting different results."

I landed on Fortitude training. 4x per week, turbo version (full body workouts) and so far I am really enjoying it. It kicks your ass. I love being in the gym 6x per week, but with this level of intensity that would be impossible. So 4x per week is perfect. My workouts take about 60-75 minutes and each workout is so unique from the other it keeps you mentally stimulated. When I leave the gym I am a sweaty mess and generally need about 30 mins of just sitting on my couch to decompress. Scott is a smart dude and sometimes he needs to dummy himself up a bit more to communicate to us minions, BUT, if you thoroughly read the book and then compare it to the sample blank workout sheets you will understand it.

I only have ONE (singular) issue with the program that I cannot incorporate and that is the zig zag component simply because I train at a busy commercial gym and cannot access multiple machines at the same time. Otherwise I am using it exactly as prescribed. And it is easy to follow exactly as prescribed because he allows a lot of leeway into exercise selection, order of exercise and priority of muscle groups.

Thanks for the post, man!

Yes, the zig-zagging is an issue I've address hundreds of times (and I think maybe this thread). There are ways around that that can be employed to solve that issue 90% of the time. E.g.,

Back: Rack pulls as a thickness exercise and rack chins, chins, pull-ups in the same rack. Or, secure a width / pulldown exercise and use DB rows as a thickness exercise. Start with the Rowing to at least get that first set in. (Chances are there won't be a scramble for the heavier DBs, but you can often bring them over to where you're doing the width movement)
Chest: Bring dumbbells (for isolation movement) to the same bench you're using for a BB press.
Thighs: Secure compound movment (Squat variation, leg press, etc) and use DB ham curls for the ham isolation (right there next to the machine / rack). With the compound exercise secured, simply START the zig zagging with a quad isolation exercise (e.g., knee ex.) with that being single set in the zig zagged sequence. So might go (depending on volume Tier, this would be volume Tier II): Knee extension, leg press, DB ham curl, leg press.
Thighs: As above, but do smith sissy hacks or somersault squats as a quad isolation.

When in doubt, the focus should be on the compound movement and progression there. If there's a mix up / someone jumps in front of you / steals your machine for an isolation movement, no biggie, really.


-S

 

[homonunculus]

Anyone tried Scott's ebook "The Virgin Voyage: A Basic Fortitude Training Program for your First Blast"? Is it worth the cost?

I personally don't think it really is for most people, given you're sacrificing the autoregulatory component of the system. I was begged and pleaded to make one of those and did, only to find that (I think) none of the guys who were asking for it actually bought it. (I paid attention and messaged some of them... )

But, if you're just not getting the system (you get a FREE membership to my board where I've been answering Q's for years now - everything about how to do FT and all sorts of things so it's a matter of simply searching there in most cases), the VV program is kind of a training wheels run for the system. After that, you'd be able to see how to modify / change exercises to suit your needs. (The VV comes with a copy of the e-book, too.)

I really try to dissuade folks from buying the VV if at all possible, as it stifles learning and limits the programs effectiveness, but may be a necessary step for some to get up to speed on how to execute the program, so that's good.

-S

 

[homonunculus]

The program is well thought out.There are different tiers which add more volume.Best to start with the basic first.The book is totally worth the 20.00 and more,plus Scott is genuinely nice guy

Thanks, Brother!!!

-S

 

[homonunculus]

This ebook was great, gonna start next week. Gives me time to decide what programming I want to do. What tier basic/ turbo and exercises. Always wondered how to up frequency while training 4x week, this solves that entirely. And blew my mind on how to do it.
Best 20 bucks ever spent.

I suggest most everyone start with Basic Tier I at first to get the hang of things and the adjust week by week. The hardest training guys sometimes just ride along with Tier I and it's plenty!

-S

 

[homonunculus]

I’ve done fortitude training for a couple of months but I think I was too rigid with me. It was a bit too much, even tier 1. I was too rigid with it in the sense that I strictly followed to order of the exercises. Mainly lower loading upper pump, where the program dictates to start of with a quad/thigh movement. For me, if I start squats (or other compound quad work), the rest of the workout is going to suffer greatly.

I train with my girlfriend and that stalled the workouts immensely, as well as the crowded gym. If I tell her to do ‘flat db presses’ she going to look at me like I speak Chinese lol.

I did like the muscle rounds and pumpsets tho and recently been finding myself doing more of these pumpsets since gyms are still closed here.

Overall, I got a lot more out of DC training (which I did/doing after I’ve done FT). But I do miss the monstrous pumps a bit. DC is just plain and simple. My girlfriend understood it and could been preformed at a crowded gym. Can’t ignore what I’ve gained either from it.


But I think I might re-try FT but with a more flexible approach. Lower tier on legs, higher tier on ub, not figured everything out yet.

Thanks for the post, man.

Order of exercises can most certainly be flip-flopped, ESPECIALLY when you're sensing what you say above about squats whacking you for the rest of the session. (This is of course why Dante puts compound leg stuff at the very end of the session).

At some point, to make the overview sheets and system have a the Basic Version / Template, I had to make certain things somewhat more concrete. I'm not suggesting anyone do this, but some folks have purchased the other Daily Trainer I made (No Show, No Go) to see how I set things up there to focus on specific muscle groups, in part by prioritizing exercise order during the workout.

So, bottom line is that putting compound thigh movements at the end so you overall have better performance in the gym is TOTALLY legit. I personally will sometimes put calves first in part for this reason as well as b/c calf training is a nice way to move into the right mindset for the heavier stuff.

What you say about your GF totally makes sense: The program is really for those who are at least intermediate, largely so they have a sense of which exercises are best for them and how to autoregulate, so if your GF doesn't know the names of basic exercises, that's gonna make it tough.

And yes, the Tier system is meant to be used in the way you're taking about: Mix n' match as needed based on recovery issues. This is what Dave Henry did over the years, too (lower tier for Legs actually meant improvement there for him).

Last general thought, too is that if you felt that FT was kind of burying you, in addition to the above changes, simply doing shorter Blasts could be very helpful. Given that your blast to cruise time *ratio* would be about the same, you're not losing any ground over all if you use a 3:1 blast / cruise ratio vs. a 6 weeks : 2 weeks, but cruising after a 3 week blast will likely mean you avoid overreaching and might end up as many do, have a rebound phenomenon if you eat and rest enough during your cruise. (This of course means more progress over the long haul.)

(At the risk of a plug, feel free to check you purchase email to see how to get on my board.)

-S

 

[homonunculus]

I've done FT for a little over a year now and I had a shorter stint a few years back. I think it's a bit advanced in learning it correctly but once you get in the groove and find your rhythm I personally love it. 2 full body days rotating heavy upper pump lower then heavy lower pump upper then 2 muscle rounds days. Learning when to fail is key on this and not over reaching. But aside from all the ramble my body to me looks better training this way then it has in any other training methods I have tried from ppl 6 days a week to dc to high volume. To me this is a blend that combines frequency and intensity with low enough volume to recover and progress

It's an instinctive program listen to your body. Right now I modified it slightly instead of upper and lower days I do push and pull days so I can focus on density workouts with my pull day.

Glad it's worked for you, my man!

That mod you mention above is TOTALLY cool. I'm all for folks adjusting things to suit their needs.

I often suggest that folks try FT as written (e.g., Basic Version) for at least a single (short) progressive Blast, just so they can be on the same page as the many others who have also used it, for the sake of comparing notes and giving each other feedback. But, if you're finding (as you did) that breaking up the split in some other way matches your recovery, mindset, gym choices or whatever, then that's just what I'd want you to do: Optimize as best you can for better results.

-S

 

[beans]

Hey Scott,
Would it not be ideal to use a bb row or chest support t bar for pump work and MRS? I ask since upper back focus is something im addressing and those 2 moments I've dialed them.in.
But I'd like to bb row as a loading movement too.

 

[warlock]

I personally don't think it really is for most people, given you're sacrificing the autoregulatory component of the system. I was begged and pleaded to make one of those and did, only to find that (I think) none of the guys who were asking for it actually bought it. (I paid attention and messaged some of them... )

But, if you're just not getting the system (you get a FREE membership to my board where I've been answering Q's for years now - everything about how to do FT and all sorts of things so it's a matter of simply searching there in most cases), the VV program is kind of a training wheels run for the system. After that, you'd be able to see how to modify / change exercises to suit your needs. (The VV comes with a copy of the e-book, too.)

I really try to dissuade folks from buying the VV if at all possible, as it stifles learning and limits the programs effectiveness, but may be a necessary step for some to get up to speed on how to execute the program, so that's good.

-S

Thanks for your honest thoughts. I do have a copy of the FT ebook. One of the reasons why I like the idea of the VV ebook is to help me get started on the program. Been wanting to try it for quite some time, but sometimes I find it a tad confusing and so, I feel the VV might be a good help for me to fully understand the program and have something more specific to follow since it's all laid out for you.

 

[Flex500]

Where can I find, or which book details the full body/4day routine? Very interested to try that.

 

[Dens228]

Where can I find, or which book details the full body/4day routine? Very interested to try that.

Sent you a PM

 

[Bio]

Where can I find, or which book details the full body/4day routine? Very interested to try that.

http://drscottstevenson.com/index.html

Dr. Scott charges next to nothing so make sure you purchase the programs/ebooks from him. Don't download a free copy somewhere.