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HOLY shit! Look at this 3 year transformation (and side effects)

But the thing is people are getting smart now and more ppl are looking after their health at an earlier age. 20 years ago when these guys started, they didn't have calcium scores and all that.

Agreed, there are better conversations happening now due to all of this, and I think many people are starting to realize the folly in their approach. One thing that took me a little while to properly understand is that people live in bubbles in this sport. Instagram/Youtube and other social media platforms didn't have discussions like plaque regression, and using an ARB to prevent cardiac remodeling until very recently.

People who frequent PM are used to that stuff because it's been talked about for years on here. But that information is starting to go around everywhere now.

And you can absolutely pro bodybuild on low doses. The only people who don't agree are people who have bad genetics and can't tell themselves they just don't have it and use "oh he uses tons of gear" as an excuse why they can do something you can't, I have used probably close to 7 or 8 grams of gear, 10iu of gh and it did nothing for me. I also do not have the genetics to be elite. I then hired Patrick tour just to see what he could do. I made the best progress I've ever made on 1100mg total, I will never be a good open bodybuilder but I can still do what I love with a healthier approach

Low is a very subjective term. One man's cliff is another man's curb. Even with "moderate" doses, there is a subset of the population that is at very high risk of developing things like cvd. It's these folks that have to figure out their long term strategy even if they have the genetics.

The more people that get into this, the more freaks we will see, and the rates of death will also increase because of underlying risk factors in some that will be accelerated. It's just the law of numbers.
 
Low is a very subjective term. One man's cliff is another man's curb. Even with "moderate" doses, there is a subset of the population that is at very high risk of developing things like cvd. It's these folks that have to figure out their long term strategy even if they have the genetics.

The more people that get into this, the more freaks we will see, and the rates of death will also increase because of underlying risk factors in some that will be accelerated. It's just the law of numbers.
Agreed, when I say low I mean reasonable. Being a huge open bodybuilder is fading and more people want to do classic. But more people are taking drugs just to look good then ever before. Lots of these people are rec drug users and people who just want to look good and that I will never support and is very unhealthy.

If someone doesn't know about their genetic factors, being big and abusing drugs will not end well (Dallas, John ect)
 
Someone said Matt Jansen is very health conscious now. He may be doing calcium scores and other things with his athletes now, after he read about it on forums like this like all of us lol, but there is no way to pro bodybuild in a very low risk fashion. How do you do 15-30iu of growth for extended periods of time safely? How do you do multi-gram amounts of base testosterone safely? Yes they are basically all on lots of testosterone. On average, the stacks aren't wildly different between guys of similar size. IMO. They are all on liberal gh. Ask luki if you think one pro super heavyweight is on 300mg of test and another one is on 3 grams.

As far as aging and which compounds are the worst, Milos shows that insulin and rec drugs don't necessarily age you dramatically, at least in an outwardly fashion. Everyone who know Milos says he uses a lot of recs. It's genetics.
 
This video about changing Brett's voice or somebody else's voice makes me laugh at all. After all, it is normal that if you gain 30-40 pounds your voice will change because everything will grow, including the muscles of the neck that will press differently on the vocal cords. Now kazyv is trying to convince you how every bodybuilder will die in a moment. Somehow, Markus Ruhl is alive and well, and so is most bodybuilders in the 90s-00s where they overdid the amount of drugs.
 
Someone said Matt Jansen is very health conscious now. He may be doing calcium scores and other things with his athletes now, after he read about it on forums like this like all of us lol, but there is no way to pro bodybuild in a very low risk fashion. How do you do 15-30iu of growth for extended periods of time safely? How do you do multi-gram amounts of base testosterone safely? Yes they are basically all on lots of testosterone. On average, the stacks aren't wildly different between guys of similar size. IMO. They are all on liberal gh. Ask luki if you think one pro super heavyweight is on 300mg of test and another one is on 3 grams.

As far as aging and which compounds are the worst, Milos shows that insulin and rec drugs don't necessarily age you dramatically, at least in an outwardly fashion. Everyone who know Milos says he uses a lot of recs. It's genetics.

I didn't know that Milos was a fan of rec drugs.

As for slin, is he still using it? Does it make sense when he's not looking to get more size? And when he was a competitor, he wasnt massive like others from his time, so he was using a lot of insulin with tons of food?
 
I didn't know that Milos was a fan of rec drugs.

As for slin, is he still using it? Does it make sense when he's not looking to get more size? And when he was a competitor, he wasnt massive like others from his time, so he was using a lot of insulin with tons of food?
He was never as massive as the others because first of all - he has really average genetics, and secondly, when Milos went pro, he never had an off-session. He competed in every possible competition until the end of his career
 
He was never as massive as the others because first of all - he has really average genetics, and secondly, when Milos went pro, he never had an off-session. He competed in every possible competition until the end of his career
LOL he did compete a lot.....a shit load of shows!
 
He was never as massive as the others because first of all - he has really average genetics, and secondly, when Milos went pro, he never had an off-session. He competed in every possible competition until the end of his career
Maybe for being a mass monster

But I wouldn't call this average

Milos_Sarcev_photo25.jpg


Milos had amazing shape, and lines. Might not have dwarfed guys, but a phenomenal physique nonetheless
 
He was never as massive as the others because first of all - he has really average genetics, and secondly, when Milos went pro, he never had an off-session. He competed in every possible competition until the end of his career
Doesn’t he still hold the record for most shows competed in?
 
I didn't know that Milos was a fan of rec drugs.

As for slin, is he still using it? Does it make sense when he's not looking to get more size? And when he was a competitor, he wasnt massive like others from his time, so he was using a lot of insulin with tons of food?
many pros I have met in person which is a LOT, have a rec habit, milos is in a league of his own, but most of these guys are demonizing guys like rich piana rip when they are popping percoset and oxys and xanax or blowing lines. And they all smoke weed here in san diego. "pick your poison". Most of the top level ufc fighters I am friends with, some legends and on the actual video games.... all smoke weed. I used to smoke blunts with Eddie sanchez and go eat chipotle lit and he would get rushed by fans for autographs, almost more than any other pro Ive kicked it with, especially in north county since he's from here. Jesse Taylor is another one,straight maniac, Walel Watson and I are from the same gang he jumped me in, Robbie Peralta saved my life in a shooting. Ilima MacFarlane, Liz Carmouchie all cool and down af. you can stay lean with slin @nutrient repartitioning at low does
 
He was never as massive as the others because first of all - he has really average genetics, and secondly, when Milos went pro, he never had an off-session. He competed in every possible competition until the end of his career

I wonder if he could have gotten the same look without GH or slin. It also appears that he was big with diuretics (and plasma expanders?), however his condition was never nasty or killering. Finally, he use of SEO with a horrible end result.

I guess what I mean is that Milos reminds me of Dillet, they were unskill at using drugs to improve themselves as competitors.

Then you have people like Dorian, focused on work and the simple and direct mental approach, people with clear objectives who use the necessary methods to achieve them in the best possible way.

Milos is the mind, but I think Dorian is a better representation of what the word intelligence means.
 
I wonder if he could have gotten the same look without GH or slin. It also appears that he was big with diuretics (and plasma expanders?), however his condition was never nasty or killering. Finally, he use of SEO with a horrible end result.

I guess what I mean is that Milos reminds me of Dillet, they were unskill at using drugs to improve themselves as competitors.

Then you have people like Dorian, focused on work and the simple and direct mental approach, people with clear objectives who use the necessary methods to achieve them in the best possible way.

Milos is the mind, but I think Dorian is a better representation of what the word intelligence means.
This is a normal thing that happens when you start to mix too much knowledge - you start to analyze too many things and you lose yourself unnecessarily in it all
 
many pros I have met in person which is a LOT, have a rec habit, milos is in a league of his own, but most of these guys are demonizing guys like rich piana rip when they are popping percoset and oxys and xanax or blowing lines. And they all smoke weed here in san diego. "pick your poison". Most of the top level ufc fighters I am friends with, some legends and on the actual video games.... all smoke weed. I used to smoke blunts with Eddie sanchez and go eat chipotle lit and he would get rushed by fans for autographs, almost more than any other pro Ive kicked it with, especially in north county since he's from here. Jesse Taylor is another one,straight maniac, Walel Watson and I are from the same gang he jumped me in, Robbie Peralta saved my life in a shooting. Ilima MacFarlane, Liz Carmouchie all cool and down af. you can stay lean with slin @nutrient repartitioning at low does
When someone in our community passes this is rarely brought up. Are taking mass amounts gear and hgh healthy?, no we all know that, but few want to say how recs and booze exacerbated the situations. Obviously not all, but for those partying it up on the weekends and taking a bunch of gear and trying to find some natural sup to help out I would suggest drop the partying down as well.
 
I wonder if he could have gotten the same look without GH or slin. It also appears that he was big with diuretics (and plasma expanders?), however his condition was never nasty or killering. Finally, he use of SEO with a horrible end result.

I guess what I mean is that Milos reminds me of Dillet, they were unskill at using drugs to improve themselves as competitors.

Then you have people like Dorian, focused on work and the simple and direct mental approach, people with clear objectives who use the necessary methods to achieve them in the best possible way.

Milos is the mind, but I think Dorian is a better representation of what the word intelligence means.
Dorian is still doing great. he is promoting psychedelics and yoga :) very outspoken
 
I didn't know that Milos was a fan of rec drugs.

As for slin, is he still using it? Does it make sense when he's not looking to get more size? And when he was a competitor, he wasnt massive like others from his time, so he was using a lot of insulin with tons of food?

Yes he still uses it, every time he is training, which is not always from what he is saying. He immediately blows up a size. I think Milos got a lot out of insulin, more than most others. It doesn't work as well as he claims in my opinion. It works but not quite the 30lbs gain of muscle tissue he used to guarantee.

Today he has only increased the dosages of insulin he recommends. One pro, forgot his name, said Milos had him do 20iu of insulin with carnitine IV both before and after training (2 workouts a day so 80iu a day).

THC and cardio
 

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many pros I have met in person which is a LOT, have a rec habit, milos is in a league of his own, but most of these guys are demonizing guys like rich piana rip when they are popping percoset and oxys and xanax or blowing lines. And they all smoke weed here in san diego. "pick your poison". Most of the top level ufc fighters I am friends with, some legends and on the actual video games.... all smoke weed. I used to smoke blunts with Eddie sanchez and go eat chipotle lit and he would get rushed by fans for autographs, almost more than any other pro Ive kicked it with, especially in north county since he's from here. Jesse Taylor is another one,straight maniac, Walel Watson and I are from the same gang he jumped me in, Robbie Peralta saved my life in a shooting. Ilima MacFarlane, Liz Carmouchie all cool and down af. you can stay lean with slin @nutrient repartitioning at low does
Can you expand on the last sentence? Using slin to stay lean? Typically we use it to bulk up. Also be interested in hearing what your MMA friends do physique wide how it is different or similar to what we do. They use slin?
 
Can you expand on the last sentence? Using slin to stay lean? Typically we use it to bulk up. Also be interested in hearing what your MMA friends do physique wide how it is different or similar to what we do. They use slin?
you misunderstood - he meant that you can become lean using saline and not what most people think, i.e. insulin = fat gain - it's complete nonsense
 
you misunderstood - he meant that you can become lean using saline and not what most people think, i.e. insulin = fat gain - it's complete nonsense
I agree, too many calories make people fat. So you guys are just referring to people using slin during recomp and dieting , and fitting the slim in around the calories already in the diet? This is basically what I do.
 
I agree, too many calories make people fat. So you guys are just referring to people using slin during recomp and dieting , and fitting the slim in around the calories already in the diet? This is basically what I do.
I don't know about @Muay Thai but that's what I mean. In 2014, I was preparing for a bodybuilding competition for the first time and then I was already using insulin during the preparation. After that, in every preparation I used insulin until the day of the competition and I was always fully shreeded. In general, I have been using insulin on and off for 13 years, and for the last 5 years non-stop
 

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