How much muscle can insulin put on?

[Gunsmith]

What carb source for intra shake?

And do you think moderate insulin cycles can put on as much mass as moderate AAS cycles?

He uses regular powdered Gatorade (lemon/lime) for the intra shake and waxy maize for the post shake.
He tried HBCD and we honestly saw zero difference so to cut cost he changed product.
I absolutely believe that insulin in a cycle will add more muscle than just adding more AAS alone. I honestly believe that when taken properly in conjunction with moderate carbs and metformin that it is WAY more healthy than just increased AAS dose.

 

[Gunsmith]

nice, I often see protocols that are very complicated, this one seems pretty simple.

What were the results with your client?

I've noticed you're a fan of low AAS, a bit of gh and a sprinkle of insulin, interesting.

A solid 16 pounds over 8 months , he was doing much higher doses of Anabolics and that was having a negative impact on his health. His labs now are back in the normal range for everything except testosterone

 

[Ashop]

He uses regular powdered Gatorade (lemon/lime) for the intra shake and waxy maize for the post shake.
He tried HBCD and we honestly saw zero difference so to cut cost he changed product.
I absolutely believe that insulin in a cycle will add more muscle than just adding more AAS alone. I honestly believe that when taken properly in conjunction with moderate carbs and metformin that it is WAY more healthy than just increased AAS dose.

I just wish I could tolerate METFORMIN. Major stomach disturbances keep me from being able to use it. Explosive diarrhea every time I've taken it.

 

[warlock]

I just wish I could tolerate METFORMIN. Major stomach disturbances keep me from being able to use it. Explosive diarrhea every time I've taken it.

Have you tried to start at 250mg a day and slowly work your way up?

Have you tried the SR version? This is better for those that experience those sides.

 

[Gunsmith]

I just wish I could tolerate METFORMIN. Major stomach disturbances keep me from being able to use it. Explosive diarrhea every time I've taken it.

I have to start with 250mg taken right after first meal for a week , then I add another 250mg with dinner for a week or so then add another 1/2 (125mg) with breakfast and after a week I'll add another 1/2 with dinner.

There is still a slight bit of gastric issues , just softer stool than normal and gas but after a few weeks it passes.

The extended release is supposed to help alot with the digestion issues

 

[crunchy]

does homogeneous insulin use stop slow inhibit the body from producing its own? Particularly the long acting like lantus?

 

[IronLion2]

I just wish I could tolerate METFORMIN. Major stomach disturbances keep me from being able to use it. Explosive diarrhea every time I've taken it.

I had better luck with met by upping my fiber and lowering FODMAP foods.

 

[Brickshthouse79]

There are a couple of ways to use slin. The better way is to use it to boost and maintain IGF levels in your blood. This wold be achieved by using about 4 IU HGH ( pharma). Split the doses between your 6 meals and taking 2-3 iu of fast acting slin with each GH shot and meal. This way you don't have to slam sugars or worry about your gut or organs growing.

Do you mind explaining that a bit more? Is it that gh causes a release of glucose which prevents one from going hypo even when not injesting 10g carbs per iu slin? So by timing each you can use the glucose released by gh? So if you were taking 4iu gh a day, would you only take 2-3ius of slin with lets say two 2iu gh shots per day? Or would you also take 2-3ius slin with other meals as well?

 

[GDADDYG8]

I think the idea of Lantus (one shot in the morning with a 16 hour “peak”) is ideal since we are growing out the gym with every meal.

Using fast acting around meals with Lantus doesn’t seem like a bad idea depending on needs.

HGH makes you insulin resistant and has never been proven to build muscle and is very expensive unless you are rolling the dice on generic Chinese GH.

Insulin should compliment what you are doing.


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[Elvia1023]

I would only recommend lantus to people who have their routine locked down. Meaning they eat every few hours (never miss meals) and they sleep around the same time each night etc. It is true longer acting slins are much more forgiving in many ways but lantus is active all day. In fact in some it could be active longer than you think so it's easy to be caught out. However if you eat regular meals including a sensible pre bed one you will be fine. Although things like one night having 10 hours sleep instead of 7 could have you near the line for example. Obviously the dose is another important factor so start low and gradually build it up.

 

[GDADDYG8]

He stay lean and grew , I hate the idea of getting above 12%-13% body fat in the off season , it make a prep so much harder.

I am curious why you would have so many calories from fat when using insulin. 380 g of protein could someone really utilize that much? Just trying to understand the logic here.


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[Elvia1023]

I should have mentioned I experimented a lot when first using slin. Stuff like taking humalog and purposely not eating (at home) to learn all the signs of going hypo. Also experimenting with timing of carbs on different types of slin. I quickly learnt a steady (pretty much constant) supply of carbs/aminos was my fav method on fast acting slin. That changes the longer acting slin you use and with lantus eating your standard meals is sufficient. Although the most lantus I have ever used was a small amount at 40iu. Some bodybuilders use 100-250iu lantus per day. Many do approx 100iu but have humalog with meals or around workouts as well. If you were doing that much I wouldn't think of just meals in a sense. I would be snacking on carbs between larger meals as well. Although those sort of protocols are extreme and not needed by 99+%. Regardless of lantus dose I would also do some intra carbs especially if you do higher volume workouts. It doesn't have to be high but 30g or so just to help matters.

I did get caught out a few times on slin when experimenting and once you start going hypo there is no going back. You could eat 100g sugar in 2 mins but it takes a few mins for your body to start processing that sugar. So the best case scenario is you get the shakes/sweats etc for a few mins then start coming out of it. The earlier you spot it the better. That's why you should always be prepared. It can creep up very fast as well. From the first warning sign to full blown hypo can be very fast. Although effective slin use should have no hypo warning as you should be covered at all times. 99% of the times I have used slin I couldn't have guessed (apart from great fullness/pumps) because I take in a constant supply of carbs/aminos and a dose never too high so there is no risk of me ever going hypo.

Nevertheless that 1% can happen. My worst hypo episode was with 40iu lantus and happened after 24 hours post injection. It was post workout after a high volume workout with intra carbs. I also consumed loads of carbs the previous 24 hours as well (approx 600-700g). So this one time it did surprise me as I thought it had left my system. I put it down to being depleted/tired postworkout and lay down. I could tell I was going hypo soon after lying down but it was too late. I quickly had some sweets and sat down with a bowl of cereal with dried fruits. I was sweating profusely and it was dropping into my cereal and my body was shaking. My legs then went completely dead and I could barely lift my arm. I had to shout my gf to pour more milk in the cereal even though the fridge was 2 feet away (couldn't stand up). It's a crazy feeling going hypo and when I could stand I laid on my bed dripping in sweat. I had just put on a new shirt and it looked like I had jumped in a swimming pool. Within another 10 mins I felt fine.

Just a little story for people to make sure you treat insulin with care and are planned when using it. When using it don't ever go out without carbs on you for example. That happened to me and I had ate carbs every few hours and even had intra carbs over 24 hours post inj and only 40iu the day before and that was my worst one.