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How much protein is to much and can cause fat gain

Gunsmith

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So in regards to Protein , at what point do we consume to much to the point that it can cause fat gain??

We know that the body will convert protein into glucose via Gluconeogenesis when there are no carbs , but at what point (if any) will the body convert excess protein to glucose and that will get stored as fat like excessive carbs do.

I've heard that if we eat to much protein the body will convert what it needs and we waste out the rest , then I've heard conflicted stories that the excess protein is stored like excess carbs or fat would be.
 

little slice

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didn't Dante say that the thermogenic effect of protein is like 30%?



and isn't gluconeogenesis a really calorically expensive process?




hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 

thethinker48

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Dr Scott. Stevenson's talked about this on a podcast, he was dieting on 400+ grams and kept going higher for a period without any fatgain; it's possible of course but very difficult.

I think it's also a matter of individual metabolisms; a naturally lean guy will probably find it very hard to put on lots of fat overeating protein; someone whose naturally chubbier will have a different insulin response to all that protein and might not be served as well, but still hell of a lot better than excess carbs.

In the end it's just the net energy balance that'll matter for both the up and down of bf.

It's a cool topic; BDS and Massive G are big protein eaters, they'd be a good addition to this discussion.

I like mine at 320; that's about the limit for proper digestion and recovery for me, rest is fats and properly timed carbs; it'll increase over time I bet.

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johnjuanb1

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There are too many factors involved to spout off a certain number.
It depends on your metabolism, whether or not you take HGH, T3/T4, how much AAS, etc.
I had a friend who would intake 600 grams of protein per day and he was as lean as it gets. He competed as a middle weight, top 3 in Nationals.
 

maldorf

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That is going to mostly depend on the amounts of the other macronutrients you are getting. If you are taking in carbs and fats to fuel your body's activities and then taking in extra protein then that is going to be stored as bodyfat. It does happen. I did it for awhile trying to take in more and more calories to build muscle. There is only so much your body can use. Your body is not going to take excess protein and put it out as waste, it holds onto those nutrients.
 

tren_plz

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There are too many factors involved to spout off a certain number.
It depends on your metabolism, whether or not you take HGH, T3/T4, how much AAS, etc.
I had a friend who would intake 600 grams of protein per day and he was as lean as it gets. He competed as a middle weight, top 3 in Nationals.

100%

Overthinking things to the max here. Impossible to answer with knowing a million other variables.
 

nothuman

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Almost impossible. Over consumption of protein is a fat burner as long as carbs and/or fats are reduced at the same time
 

suppdude

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Just know if you're gonna over eat any macronutrient, you want it to be protein.

Dante has posted numerous studies showing very high protein intake did not cause any addition of adipose tissue.

TEF with protein we know is at the highest, so consuming more will just be burned off. Obviously there are factors that play into this as mentioned in the thread.
 

homonunculus

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In pretty dang experiences individuals (Participants were otherwise healthy resistance-trained men and women who had been resistance training regularly for the last 8.9 ± 6.7 years and an average of 8.5 ± 3.3 hours per week.), the best study showing that the extra protein didn't add to body fat:

1. Antonio J, Peacock C, Ellerbroek A, Fromhoff B, Silver T. The effects of consuming a high protein diet (4.4 g/kg/d) on body composition in resistance-trained individuals. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. 2014;11(1):19.

BACKGROUND:The consumption of dietary protein is important for resistance-trained individuals. It has been posited that intakes of 1.4 to 2.0 g/kg/day are needed for physically active individuals. Thus, the purpose of this investigation was to determine the effects of a very high protein diet (4.4 g/kg/d) on body composition in resistance-trained men and women.METHODS:Thirty healthy resistance-trained individuals participated in this study (mean +/- SD; age: 24.1 +/- 5.6 yr; height: 171.4 +/- 8.8 cm; weight: 73.3 +/- 11.5 kg). Subjects were randomly assigned to one of the following groups: Control (CON) or high protein (HP). The CON group was instructed to maintain the same training and dietary habits over the course of the 8 week study. The HP group was instructed to consume 4.4 grams of protein per kg body weight daily. They were also instructed to maintain the same training and dietary habits (e.g. maintain the same fat and carbohydrate intake). Body composition (Bod Pod(R)), training volume (i.e. volume load), and food intake were determined at baseline and over the 8 week treatment period.RESULTS:The HP group consumed significantly more protein and calories pre vs post (p < 0.05). Furthermore, the HP group consumed significantly more protein and calories than the CON (p < 0.05). The HP group consumed on average 307 +/- 69 grams of protein compared to 138 +/- 42 in the CON. When expressed per unit body weight, the HP group consumed 4.4 +/- 0.8 g/kg/d of protein versus 1.8 +/- 0.4 g/kg/d in the CON. There were no changes in training volume for either group. Moreover, there were no significant changes over time or between groups for body weight, fat mass, fat free mass, or percent body fat.CONCLUSIONS:Consuming 5.5 times the recommended daily allowance of protein has no effect on body composition in resistance-trained individuals who otherwise maintain the same training regimen. This is the first interventional study to demonstrate that consuming a hypercaloric high protein diet does not result in an increase in body fat.

So, the extra protein didn't aid in either fat gains OR muscle gains, in these subjects, at least not statistically.

On average, the HP gained 1.9 vs. 1.3kg FFM, with -0.2kg and +0.3kg being the changes in Fat mass over the study...

Not statically significant (any of those variables), but given long enough time, it looks like both groups were gaining slowly and possibly some advantage to the HP vs. control group (without body fat being a negative side effect of gaining more FFM).

These guys were not big eaters, though. Both groups took in about 2100kcal / day at the start, but the HP group was averaging ~2800kcal / day by the end of the diet, with the change coming mainly from protein.

Bottom line is you can go pretty dang high in protein, using it as your main way to add kcal, and still not have fat gains as a major concern. This study doesn't answer the question as to what happens when / if someone takes in higher amounts of protein (e..g, this amount) and adds additional kcal from other macros on top if it, which would likely mean more body fat (which, given these data, we'd attribute to those other macros, not the protein).

-S
 

OutToLunch

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Interesting 4 part YouTube video from dr layne norton addressing protein went up recently.
 

Phidias

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Tried all kinds of dieting methods over my life, from strict keto (10% protein 90% fat on overall low kcals) to extreme protein intake (600-700+ grams per day, with either zero carbs/fats or the same pro intake on way above maintenance kcal), and WITHOUT THE SLIGHTEST HESITATION I'll say the following: you just can't store protein as bodyfat. At least MY body seems unable to... :cool:

And actually the more the better, whatever it is you wanna achieve: lose fat or gain muscle (or both at the same time).
 

GDADDYG8

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Protein is hard for the body to digest. If you are in a calorie deficit you should be eating more protein to protect muscle.

When you are in a calorie surplus you need less
protein to maintain and build new muscle tissue.

I think we can all agree on those 2 general statements. Nutrition has general rules, specifics are vary highly from person and situation.

Protein can not be stored in the body, unlike carbs and fats. I think the better question is how much and how often should I be eating protein throughout the day.

You want a constant supply of amino acids in your blood stream at all times for your body to use when it needs. I think consuming 25-50 g of protein every 3 hours would be ideal for the majority of men who train hard. At night and breakfast I would recommend slightly larger protein meal with some fats to slow digestion and supply your body for/from the 8 hour fast.

Protein is the most expensive macro and hard to digest. I wouldn’t want to grossly overeat it. Those extra calories could be used more efficiently with other macros.


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Gunsmith

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Exactly the feedback I was expecting , thank you gents so much

My personal experience is that I can eat a balanced macro diet 33%x3
275g Protein , 275g Carbs , 122g Fat , totaling 3300 calories and I will add fat
but if I rearrange the macros to
500g Protein and 150g fat , totaling 3350 calories I’ll will lose fat.

I know I’m very carb sensitive so I basically stay away grom them unless I’m trying to grow them I’ll add in some around training.

This subject it’s what annoys me about the whole “just add or reduce calories” but they mention nothing about nutritional value of the calories cut or added. Obviously 500 calories from chicken breast is going to have a totally different impact than 500 calories from cake
 

brutus69

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protein dont make u fat. carbs an fats dont make u fat. excess calories make u fat. thats the ony way to get fat. the only way.
calories u dont eat wont get stored as fat, cuz, see, food is energy. and food energy doesnt break the laws of physics, the laws of thermodynamics.
u can "believe" whatever u want but science doesnt need u to believe in it to be true.
anyway. here's the most comprehensive page ive found on protein intake.
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/reflecting-on-five-years-studying-protein/
 

tren_plz

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While what you're saying is true. Not all calories are equal especially when you take into consideration training, super supps, and nutritional timing.

To the average joe give them a balanced macro sheet in a caloric deficit and they'll lose weight, but you could enhance the fat loss quiet easily manipulating a few variables.

Dr. Scott to the rescue! :headbang:
 

GDADDYG8

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While what you're saying is true. Not all calories are equal especially when you take into consideration training, super supps, and nutritional timing.



To the average joe give them a balanced macro sheet in a caloric deficit and they'll lose weight, but you could enhance the fat loss quiet easily manipulating a few variables.



Dr. Scott to the rescue! :headbang:



Realistically I think we can all agree there is a slight recomposition advantage that can be made with a certain type of macro split along with nutrition timing, genetics, hard training, and cardio. Macros do matter in regard to the type of weight gain or weight loss (muscle/fat) you may experience. Add in performance enhancements and it makes things even more confusing and not so straight forward.

With all of these factors that play a role in results we have to stick to generalizations and stray away from specific claims.


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GDADDYG8

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Overall protein can make you gain fat. I tried this game before. I thought I could eat excess calories of mainly protein and vegetables and my body would use body fat as energy and build muscle with the protein. I just gained fat and energy sucked ass lol.


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little slice

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Overall protein can make you gain fat. I tried this game before. I thought I could eat excess calories of mainly protein and vegetables and my body would use body fat as energy and build muscle with the protein. I just gained fat and energy sucked ass lol.


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well I mean.. there is a little bit of fat in lean meat :eek:
 

Gunsmith

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Does anyone have any links to Dante’s post on this that was mentioned earlier or something to narrow down the search

I see Stewie is lurking about , I’d love to hear his take on this
 

suppdude

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Does anyone have any links to Dante’s post on this that was mentioned earlier or something to narrow down the search

I see Stewie is lurking about , I’d love to hear his take on this

Pretty much what Dr. Stevenson posted above is all you need to read.
 

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