I BODYBUILDER/THIBADEAU

[scott riz]

I figured I would put this out here on the boars to see what some of you would say about it. I would really like to hear LATS, Magnums, or anybody for that reason to voice your opinion. Over at t-nation they started their I bodybuilder articles which is a big push for their supps. which are just Pepto pro, beta-alanine and creatine. That being said their training which is totally different and they call it "the perfecr rep" which you ramp up from say 50% of your max to 855 of your max over say 7-8 sets but only doing 3 reps each set explosively. I was always under the assumption of time under tension. The volume is really high. they have specializtion workouts for every bodypart hitting that specialized bodypart 3x a week and everything else 1-2 times minimally. I think on the shoulder specializtion you will hit 40-50 sets of delts a week, but only for 2-6 weeks until you move on to another bodypart. I don't know time under tension or multiple sets of 3 reps explosively almost like a Westside dynamic day with 3 exercises of 7 sets each. What do ya think???

 

[loganb_football]

None if it is cutting edge, but in my opinion it's a decent program from what I have looked at. While time under tension is not a huge factor, you are also doing several sets of lower reps and playing on the force/velocity curve theory. He's looking for a maximal contraction every time, and whether that can be done with a slow eccentric followed by a fast concentric is debatable.

Another thing is that he harps on Autoregulation which is another positive, but I don't think it is really going to help beginners as much because you really have to be in tune with your body. It took me years to just sit back and say this exercise doesn't feel right, and either stop that exercise or have a few more warm up sets (this could be due to either inexperience or stubborness lol)....

 

[scott riz]

I agree about knowing your body and what exercises do it for ya. I also agree about knowing when to keep going and when to cease. 20 years nowI finally started to listen to my body. My question is about the low rep range and the extremely high volume. I was always thinking hypertrophy was in the 8-15 range. Just figured I'd throw it on the board here to see what other views I would get.

 

[KillerStack]

Working for T-Nation means selling out, unfortunately. Thibadeau has written some good stuff but to wade through all that marketing bullshit to get some training info - no thanks!

Plus he claims he can't take steroids due to a heart issue which I don't believe for a second.

 

[loganb_football]

Working for T-Nation means selling out, unfortunately. Thibadeau has written some good stuff but to wade through all that marketing bullshit to get some training info - no thanks!

Plus he claims he can't take steroids due to a heart issue which I don't believe for a second.

Well, I haven't heard really anything on the heart issue, but if he truly does, then it definitely would be advisable to stay away from them... You're definitely right that it can be tough finding the useful stuff in an article with a lot of marketing included...

 

[chrisrivers]

I think T-nation has some great info on training and diet. But like others stated, i get a lil weary when they try to push products.

And i also think that thibadeau and the others who clam they dont juice are bullshitting.

 

[halflife]

"REALLY HIGH VOLUME" eh?

Side note: this is generally the setup, there are some small exceptions in the routine.

You workout 5 times a week.

But you specialize in a muscle group for average of 3 weeks. During those three weeks, per week you only work that specialized muscle group three days. The other days you work other muscles with one excercise with one max effort set then 1 dropset. But for the specialized muscle groups you do average of 6 exercises per day 3x a week. There are a lot of sets per excercise BUT these are all ramping up sets only the last set (sometimes a drop set is added) are max effort.

But after those 3 weeks you only directly hit the muscle with 2 exercises with only 1 max set each and 1 drop set sometimes per week for the next 12 weeks.

Do the math and average out the max effort sets? And these are only 3 reps ramping sets and max effort sets (a key to calculating nervous system fatigue).

Also on these 'max effort sets' he wants you to STOP when your lifting speed slows down - which is way before failure and before form breakdown.

I'm not defending the effectiveness of this program - or t-nation. I respect Thibs, that's all.

But those that say it's a very high volume routine - have a warped sense of high volume. Do the math for the total 'max effort' for the whole 15 weeks.

 

[scott riz]

Yeah, thats true I didn't really look at it that way with all the ramp up sets and 1 or 2 only hitting 85%. Those sets are only 3 reps explosively regarding the speed before you slow down. It is also hard to weed out all the fluff about the supplements they are pushing. But I guess all in all the routine or loading looks good.

 

[KillerStack]

Well, I haven't heard really anything on the heart issue, but if he truly does, then it definitely would be advisable to stay away from them...

For sure. I just think he uses plenty of steroids and from what I hear what he says online isn't what he says IRL. Don't know if the heart issue is legit but that's what he claims is the reason he absolutely can't use steroids.

No one has to broadcast their potentially illegal activities online but when you sell a lie to kids it's just wrong. And not just kids, he said this to guys like Lyle McDonald (who is sort of a peer) too.

 

[loganb_football]

For sure. I just think he uses plenty of steroids and from what I hear what he says online isn't what he says IRL. Don't know if the heart issue is legit but that's what he claims is the reason he absolutely can't use steroids.

No one has to broadcast their potentially illegal activities online but when you sell a lie to kids it's just wrong. And not just kids, he said this to guys like Lyle McDonald (who is sort of a peer) too.

Yeah it is weird if you look at his before/after pics... I do respect the man, but if he has a heart condition, Im wondering why it's ok to push to his weight up to 240 yet not ok to take AAS. But again Im not aware of the situation...

 

[chrisrivers]

For sure. I just think he uses plenty of steroids and from what I hear what he says online isn't what he says IRL. Don't know if the heart issue is legit but that's what he claims is the reason he absolutely can't use steroids.

No one has to broadcast their potentially illegal activities online but when you sell a lie to kids it's just wrong. And not just kids, he said this to guys like Lyle McDonald (who is sort of a peer) too.

Agreed.

Yeah it is weird if you look at his before/after pics... I do respect the man, but if he has a heart condition, Im wondering why it's ok to push to his weight up to 240 yet not ok to take AAS. But again Im not aware of the situation...[/QUOTE]

Yep i respect him but the 240lb bodyframe is supect.

 

[The_Beast]

Yeah it is weird if you look at his before/after pics... I do respect the man, but if he has a heart condition, Im wondering why it's ok to push to his weight up to 240 yet not ok to take AAS. But again Im not aware of the situation...

From what I read on T-nation's forum he actually didn't want to gain weight. He first used the supplements only to help with his recovery. His weight was increasing and got pressured by the T-nation guys into seeing how far he could go. He apparently had to stop after 10 weeks because at the higher body weight he started suffering from sleep apnea and narcolepsy. He then lost the weight on purpose eating only once per day.

 

[Conan21]

looks interesting

Thibadaeau has always impressed me. He is definately a smart individual.

He and is training parter look pretty damn good for natural lifters so I guess you can say the proof is in the pudding.

I believe he has a background in olympic lifting?

 

[loganb_football]

From what I read on T-nation's forum he actually didn't want to gain weight. He first used the supplements only to help with his recovery. His weight was increasing and got pressured by the T-nation guys into seeing how far he could go. He apparently had to stop after 10 weeks because at the higher body weight he started suffering from sleep apnea and narcolepsy. He then lost the weight on purpose eating only once per day.

I'm curious as to why he would want to do it again then? He's trying to gradually work his way back up according to one of his posts... I'm just not sure if we're getting the whole story from him. Maybe he liked being 240 Im not sure, but Im fairly positive before the anaconda protocol he had been up to 235 in good shape. Some of this just seems to be a little contradictory.

BUT, aside from that, he has a great physique, and as Conan said he is a very smart individual. I know part of his job is Marketing with Biotest, I just really hope he keeps his training info, and research a priority...

Conan 21, he did have a background in olympic lifting....

 

[triathloncoach]

CT

If he's not juicing, nobody is.

Read his stuff, IMHO he provides great training advice, but he's obviously not honestly promoting anything.

 

[Magnum]

I watched a video about the workout a few weeks ago. It sounded interesting, but in the end I don't really think that it is all that special. I think in the end you spend too much time trying to find the exact weight for the proposed percentage of load on the muscle and too much of you concentration is spent on rep speed. Too technical, just get into the gym and workout. It's not rocket science.

 

[LATS]

i agree.. i go with what feels best.. i like a slow rep cadence.. this kind of thing may work well for a period but like all things it will come to a end.. when it starts to get to technical the workout is lost before it begins.. i have always believed that you do what you will consistently.. that is truly the key.. if changing things around quite a bit keeps you interested and relieves boredom then do it.. if you like a set routine then do it.. CONSISTENCY !!!

 

[dece870717]

I just started doing Growth principles written by Big A http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/articles-forum/1158-growth-principles-beginners.html

1 set per exercise, only work out muscle groups 3 times a week. So far its been making me a lot more sore than my previous 3 set per exercise routine that I've been doing for years.

 

[morepain]

antone who has been in the gym more then 10 years will find othing revolutionary here. I had a conversation with TC about this directly and also commented on the board early on. Thibs is a good trainer unfortunatley this crap is making him look like a muscletech salesman. I have no difficulty believing he is natural he is only about 210, but his friend Sebastian is loaded to the gills , look at his old pics from a couple of years back, plus unless the "anaconda protocol" causes serious water retention in the head face and neck then he is loaded on test. i don;t really care, but this whole episode has casued me to leave t-nation and start shopping around for supps again. They preached for years against the sales tachniques of muscletech and others but this crap takes the cake. I ahve been involved in this game for close to 30 years and to me its an insult to take techniques that have been around forever, give them a cutesy name, and call it your own revolutionary developement. OF course i feel the same way every time i hear some dildo call a one arm dumbell row a "Kroc Row" WTF????