IGF and competition dieting.

[diskey]

I'm just wondering, when adding igf-lr3 to a low calorie diet, should I increase carb intake? I've been dieting for 1 week and figured out to try igf for the first time now. After only one shot of 20mcg pwo I've been extremly hungry. I'm on only 150g carb a day, 30g sugar pwo, after igf pwo yesterday I got pretty bad hypo sympthoms so probably must increase carbs here at least.

Also thought doing 20mcg ED, but still hungry as hell now the day after yesterdays pwo shot, so maybe only pwo shots 4-5 times weekly?

Anyone else done igf while dieting for a competition. I'm 13 weeks out. Just wondering how much I should increase carbs while doing igf. I thought IGF could help me put on some lbm while dieting.

stats:
215lbs, ca. 10% bf - nutr. breakdown: 330g prot, 150g carb, 60g fat.
While bulking I did same just 300g carb with one eat out day a week. Added stady about 2,5 lbs weekly on that.

 

[IBBAdmin]

first I think your carbs are to low this far out from your show,,just your training and daily walking around is gonna burn your muscle up bro.. IMO.. then add any fat burning chemical to your program will magnify that..

What show are you doing ?

 

[diskey]

first I think your carbs are to low this far out from your show,,just your training and daily walking around is gonna burn your muscle up bro.. IMO.. then add any fat burning chemical to your program will magnify that..

What show are you doing ?

It's called the Norwegian Grand Prix. You can read more about it here: nkf-ifbb.no. Just scroll down on the page. 22. of April.

I'm under consultation and trainer would like me to drop the most flab now the first weeks and then start feeding little and little more food when about 10 pounds out. But I will perhaps go down slow and steady if I eat 300g carb daily without any eat out day, at least now from the hunger from the IGF.


Any other thoughts?

 

[Enanthanator]

I would definitely add more carbs, only after your igf injection(s) otherwise you will be going hypo.

 

[diskey]

yes, upping it from 30g dexto pwo to 50g and see if that helps. Will keep carbs at 150 + 20-30g more pwo until Sunday and see what happends with my weight I think. Talked to the one whos helping me now and he says it's almost impossible to loose muscle when only decreasing carbs, you only need enought to function normal and be able to do your normal weight training.
Suggested if I feel really empty, then carb up 300g the evning that day and back on 150g day after...

 

[Enanthanator]

I agree with IBB you are 13 weeks out and unless you are 15% your carbs are way too low. 150g of carbs is what I have for my pwo shake alone... I would go with a more gradual fat loss aproach. 10% at 13 weeks out is very good. No need to rush at this point.

 

[diskey]

I agree with IBB you are 13 weeks out and unless you are 15% your carbs are way too low. 150g of carbs is what I have for my pwo shake alone... I would go with a more gradual fat loss aproach. 10% at 13 weeks out is very good. No need to rush at this point.

OK, what carb intake do you suggest??

I gain weight on 300g carb daily (including 80g pwo) and one eat out day a week + 2 30min cardio sessions wekly. I did this for 10 weeks and gained 25lbs totalt very steady 2,5lbs every week.

 

[Apro]

I also agree the carb intake is way low for so far out - take in mind I don't like to ever let myself get above 8% bf (I weigh a shitload so 8% is fat enough for me) and my carbs would be as high as 725 a day that far out but protein would be 700 as well. It's all about the huge protein intake and the frequency of the feedings which allows the high carbs without fat gain (and fat intake is real low of course). My own body becomes a frigging incinerator when the protein is cranked up - I literally gain muscle and lose fat at the 13 week mark. Of course there are many protocals and one of the biggest mistakes any novice can make is taking bits and pieces of too many people's personal regimen and trying to blend it together in any way precontest. At this point you should just trust who you've chosen to guide you in and follow their instuctions to the letter. Learn from the experience.

 

[diskey]

Thanks for the inputs guys! I just think I just as Apro says, follow my guide. He and an other friend of him says 150g carb is more than enought. Won't loose
any muscle as long as protein and fat is high.

Tried doing IGF on mornings when not training, don't get any hypo sympthoms even when only 20g carb to breakfast.

I'm almost not hungry on 150g carb daily anymore, maybe will start to go high/low on carbs soon...

 

[Enanthanator]

apro is 100% correct...however than you shouldnt be messing with things that will make you go hypo if you can not tweak your diet...this isnt a major overhall its a very minor adjustement...Keep the IGF pwo, thats when it is most effective and up your carbs just pwo. In reality, adding 30grams of carbs 3 times per week will not make you fat, especially with your current plan. If you dont want to do that I would drop the IGF because if you arent going to diet right and supply it with the correct fuel it is a waste imho.

 

[diskey]

apro is 100% correct...however than you shouldnt be messing with things that will make you go hypo if you can not tweak your diet...this isnt a major overhall its a very minor adjustement...Keep the IGF pwo, thats when it is most effective and up your carbs just pwo. In reality, adding 30grams of carbs 3 times per week will not make you fat, especially with your current plan. If you dont want to do that I would drop the IGF because if you arent going to diet right and supply it with the correct fuel it is a waste imho.

Yes can really feel the IGF kicking pwo. When I took it in the morning on non workout days this weekend couldn't feel a thing really, not after 45min cardio either. So I think I will do just pwo as you say. 60g sugar seems to do be the right amount for 20mcg IGF pwo for me. So I can't up the dose because I can't add much more sugar than that I think.

Other moments that speaks for igf just pwo is: 1. Probably shouldn't have any fat with it since it has this insulin like effect. 2. Internal growth, if you haven't worked out any muscles, igf will just float around and bind to about any cells. 3. Since body soon adjusts to igf, a less frequent regime would make it work better.


Talked to my guide yesterday. He wants me to go high/low on the carb now, so I started yesterday. on high days 250g, low 150g. I only lost one pound last week, so he said if this dosen't work and you've not dropped more weight until Wednesday we have to skip the whole contest. He really want's me to be in contest shape as fast as possible before the contest, so he can just tweak the condition the last weeks. It's 13 weeks out now and I have aproximatley 15 pounds to loose to get in the right shape.

 

[Apro]

Talked to my guide yesterday. He wants me to go high/low on the carb now, so I started yesterday. on high days 250g, low 150g. I only lost one pound last week, so he said if this dosen't work and you've not dropped more weight until Wednesday we have to skip the whole contest. He really want's me to be in contest shape as fast as possible before the contest, so he can just tweak the condition the last weeks. It's 13 weeks out now and I have aproximatley 15 pounds to loose to get in the right shape.

???? Brother, you're either unrealistically "fat" (and that's hard to imagine because there ARE ways to dump almost all of 15 pounds in two weeks if someone absolutely has to - but I'd never recommend it to you) or you need another "guide." You can bounce back from a whole lot of desperate measures at 13 weeks out. Hell, without getting crazy at all, you could fairly easily drop most of it by the 6 week out mark. You need to acquire some knowledge - do some serious reading, get a firm grasp on the basic why and how behind the process, then talk with or correspond with some guys who know this subject, compare notes, pick a plan of attack and give it a go. I'm not getting down on you at all - it's just that you are far enough out that what you want to accomplish in 13 weeks is not crazy difficult. Best of luck.

 

[diskey]

???? Brother, you're either unrealistically "fat" (and that's hard to imagine because there ARE ways to dump almost all of 15 pounds in two weeks if someone absolutely has to - but I'd never recommend it to you) or you need another "guide." You can bounce back from a whole lot of desperate measures at 13 weeks out. Hell, without getting crazy at all, you could fairly easily drop most of it by the 6 week out mark. You need to acquire some knowledge - do some serious reading, get a firm grasp on the basic why and how behind the process, then talk with or correspond with some guys who know this subject, compare notes, pick a plan of attack and give it a go. I'm not getting down on you at all - it's just that you are far enough out that what you want to accomplish in 13 weeks is not crazy difficult. Best of luck.

My guide has competed in over 20 competitions, so I really don't know what to say. He's guided all our local champions. I might talk to another guide at my gym, but he's of course a friend of my current trainer. I've competed two times last year with their guidance, placed in the middle of the group cause I wasn't hard enough. But that time I started dieting 9weeks out after a 3 weeks vacation in South America. But he for sure a fan of getting his client's in contest shape at about the 6 week mark, that's of course bulletsafe strategy, but dosen't mean it's not possible to get in shape like a week before, everything just have to go just like it's supposed to do. So if he tells me to drop it, maybe I just continue preparing by myself. Kept all my notes from last years competition and have a fair good knowledge of how my body responds, at least for the final preparations.

heres a picture at my current weight 212lbs. Legs is harder than upper body. Picture was taken in Nov06, by that time I added like 10lbs more, which I've lost now, and I'm at the same weight now but probably more lbm.

 

[Enanthanator]

bro you look great in that pic...No need to drop out of a contest that is 13 weeks away...if he wants to drop replace him and find someone else. There is no reason in hell you cant get into contest shape by then.

 

[Apro]

Dude, at 13 out I think you look pretty good. There are so many different approaches - it's pretty much about just learning your body and what works the best for you. Maybe your "guide" has a good history of success with getting people ready but he worked with you once previously and now seems at a loss for measures if this immediate tactic doesn't produce a certain result at this far out? I'm no guru - I've gotten myself ready in all but my last amatuer show and I've kept the guy who did that one for my pro appearances - but I am pretty confident that even I could dial you in rather easily given your current appearance and the time remaining. If he pulls out, you might as well keep pushing onward yourself and see where it leads you - maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised but if you don't feel ready, you can still pull out later. Point is, you look pretty good and that physique could easily be right on in 13 weeks.

 

[diskey]

thanks bros for the encouragement. At least I feel very good on training now. Probably has to do with the igf, I got insane pumps on yesterdays chest/bi. And even on 150g carb, people told me I looked full as hell. Two last weeks I also broke like 3 strength records on different excersices.

Going to report my weight to him tomorrow. Had a brief conversation with him today, he wondered if I was hungry now on the high/low carb. And he told me, either you drop and can go on, or you don't and skip the whole contest heh..
Included 80mcg clenbuterol now for two days now, and I can feel it works.

Had a longer conversation with my other guide from last year. And I told him that trainer wanted me to be in contest shape six weeks out, and he disagreed to that. But also ment I should drop about 13 pounds the next 3-4 weeks. I perhaps like this guy better, but last time he kind of missed quite on what weight I should dail in on, but again I packed on several pounds on mass those weeks before the contest also.

He also told me to just relax and take it easy now or I would get stressed up and hold water tomorrow when I'm gonna report my weight lol....so stupid, almost like it's a contest on Wednesday this week hehe.

Excited for what he says tomorrow, at least I'm gonna have him take a look. Perhaps you could help me out a little if things don't go so well with my guide, Apro? things in my local club is so very stright forward also, things should done that and that way or they get so upset. In oct06 i did those two contests with only one week between. my guides wanted me to keep sodium throught the contest, small carb up of 450g day before. I did work out ok, but
had almost no energy on stage since we did even more salt on contest day and dropped water completely 24 hours before. I told the both I was going to do it my own way for the next show. The truly opposite: 3 days of massive carb up, dropped sodium, sipped water, introduced kalium. They go crazy both lol and told me I was going to fuck the whole thing up, and that they couldn't help me anymore with a regime like that. Well it worked out just fine lol, afterwards they asked me if I kept my notes, so they could have a look LOL.

All I'm saying could be nice to have someone from a total different place do a little guiding. Here at my place it's like my guide's way or the highway regarding contest prep.

 

[Apro]

Yup, definitely more than one way to skin a cat. It's just all in learning what works best for you. I've known a lot of guys who will post pics 6 weeks out and look like they are ready to storm the stage right then and there, and then come contest day a lot of these guys look like shit. Some guys look great weeks ahead and maintain it for the show but others don't look too freaky at the 6 week mark but then hit the stage looking unbelievable. So far I've come in very slowly from a good ways out, bounced the carb intake, and looked great on contest day; then I've done things totally different with super saturating the body with really high intakes of nutriants almost all the way in and that made me a lot bigger but in the final weeks had some problems with really dialing it in - it worked but probably needed more time because I couldn't speed the process up without major changes and that made things stressful in the end. I need to find something in between both methods this next time. Anyway, it really is all about what is right for your individual body - quite a few methods will get you there but ultimately you'll find that one combination which is perfect for you. Best of luck, and brother, I can offer advice but I'm a believer in having to be around you in the flesh to really be able to do much more in precontest interests.