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My shoulder mess (opinions?)

PoptartPsycho

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Hello guys, I haven't been around very much lately but wanted to get opinions on my shoulder mess. Let me give you the info :

2013 I tore my labrum. Pain was in the rear - teres minor (etc) saw a chiro/ART specialist once a week for 12 weeks and had accupunture weekly for 12 weeks. Was pain free for about 10 months and then the pain came back, but in the front area now. (in the area where your chest/delt/armpit sort of come together.) Went in late 2014 and had an MRI and was told it was a labrum tear. Doctor wanted to operate but it would have required TWO surgeries. One to move the bicep and repair the labrum, the second one about 8 months later to move and reattach the bicep back to it's original position. I balked at having to do TWO plus my insurance wasn't that great and I couldn't afford it at the time.

Fast forward to now. 8 years later. Starting about 2017 the pain reached a reduced point to where it didn't bother me much anymore. Except if I slept on it too long at night. In the beginning it was a crisp sharp pain. A "8" on a level of 10. Today it is like a 2 all day - barely noticeable - and maybe a 3 on some nights when I sleep too long on that side. I do not use anything like NSAIDS or whatever for pain management.

But it seemed as the pain lessened, so did my range of motion. I do not have the range of motion I used to. I can't squat either barbell or smith machine because I can not rotate my hand backwards enough to hold the bar in place. I have made adjustments over the years to the point that I can still get great workouts using substitute exercises. I can do Hammer Strength Inclines, but not barbell inclines. No more flyes, etc.. I do not directly train shoulders anymore.

So that brings us to today. This morning I went to the doctor with fresh MRIs and Xrays. The sports doctor basically informed me that the operation the first doctor suggested back in 2014 was useless at this point. Or any operation for that matter. I have way too much arthritis in the area for any kind of surgery except a complete shoulder replacement to be effective. Obviously, not what I wanted to hear. However, he did tell me that we would try a cortisone shot in the shoulder and twice weekly rehab for a couple of months to see if the range of motion would come back some.

Has anyone gone through this? (cortisone shot and rehab). I have researched threads on here for labrum tears but didn't really find anything with the option I was given.

I apologize for such a lengthy post but I wanted to put out as much information as I could to give a complete picture.

Thank you iron brothers.
 

IronViking69

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Hello guys, I haven't been around very much lately but wanted to get opinions on my shoulder mess. Let me give you the info :

2013 I tore my labrum. Pain was in the rear - teres minor (etc) saw a chiro/ART specialist once a week for 12 weeks and had accupunture weekly for 12 weeks. Was pain free for about 10 months and then the pain came back, but in the front area now. (in the area where your chest/delt/armpit sort of come together.) Went in late 2014 and had an MRI and was told it was a labrum tear. Doctor wanted to operate but it would have required TWO surgeries. One to move the bicep and repair the labrum, the second one about 8 months later to move and reattach the bicep back to it's original position. I balked at having to do TWO plus my insurance wasn't that great and I couldn't afford it at the time.

Fast forward to now. 8 years later. Starting about 2017 the pain reached a reduced point to where it didn't bother me much anymore. Except if I slept on it too long at night. In the beginning it was a crisp sharp pain. A "8" on a level of 10. Today it is like a 2 all day - barely noticeable - and maybe a 3 on some nights when I sleep too long on that side. I do not use anything like NSAIDS or whatever for pain management.

But it seemed as the pain lessened, so did my range of motion. I do not have the range of motion I used to. I can't squat either barbell or smith machine because I can not rotate my hand backwards enough to hold the bar in place. I have made adjustments over the years to the point that I can still get great workouts using substitute exercises. I can do Hammer Strength Inclines, but not barbell inclines. No more flyes, etc.. I do not directly train shoulders anymore.

So that brings us to today. This morning I went to the doctor with fresh MRIs and Xrays. The sports doctor basically informed me that the operation the first doctor suggested back in 2014 was useless at this point. Or any operation for that matter. I have way too much arthritis in the area for any kind of surgery except a complete shoulder replacement to be effective. Obviously, not what I wanted to hear. However, he did tell me that we would try a cortisone shot in the shoulder and twice weekly rehab for a couple of months to see if the range of motion would come back some.

Has anyone gone through this? (cortisone shot and rehab). I have researched threads on here for labrum tears but didn't really find anything with the option I was given.

I apologize for such a lengthy post but I wanted to put out as much information as I could to give a complete picture.

Thank you iron brothers.
I’ve been through this exact scenario. In fact, I can’t say more now because I’m headed out the door to get my shoulder drained under fluoroscopy (my arthritis produces a lot of fluid and the pressure causes more pain) and receive a cortisone shot. I do this for each shoulder every three months. It’s not ideal, but it’s the only way to avoid two shoulder replacements.
 

buck

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What do the x-rays look like. I had much the same. Cortisone helped with the discomfort. But of course did nothing to heal the problem. I did it for a couple years till the shots did nothing and it was have a partial replacement or keep going and get a total. Which would have ended any real lifting.
 

norp

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I have shoulder pain that gets much worse sleeping on my left shoulder. If I don't sleep on my left shoulder I'm fine.
Bursitis is the cause.
 

PoptartPsycho

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Messages
446
What do the x-rays look like. I had much the same. Cortisone helped with the discomfort. But of course did nothing to heal the problem. I did it for a couple years till the shots did nothing and it was have a partial replacement or keep going and get a total. Which would have ended any real lifting.
Shows the healthy shoulder bone/socket/ball surrounded by a lot of arthritis.
 

IronViking69

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My first piece of advice would be to Google “Crossover Symmetry.” It enabled me to keep training by setting everything “just right” around a torn labrum and stabilizing the joint. The results were darn near miraculous.
 

headtrainer

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Hello guys, I haven't been around very much lately but wanted to get opinions on my shoulder mess. Let me give you the info :

2013 I tore my labrum. Pain was in the rear - teres minor (etc) saw a chiro/ART specialist once a week for 12 weeks and had accupunture weekly for 12 weeks. Was pain free for about 10 months and then the pain came back, but in the front area now. (in the area where your chest/delt/armpit sort of come together.) Went in late 2014 and had an MRI and was told it was a labrum tear. Doctor wanted to operate but it would have required TWO surgeries. One to move the bicep and repair the labrum, the second one about 8 months later to move and reattach the bicep back to it's original position. I balked at having to do TWO plus my insurance wasn't that great and I couldn't afford it at the time.

Fast forward to now. 8 years later. Starting about 2017 the pain reached a reduced point to where it didn't bother me much anymore. Except if I slept on it too long at night. In the beginning it was a crisp sharp pain. A "8" on a level of 10. Today it is like a 2 all day - barely noticeable - and maybe a 3 on some nights when I sleep too long on that side. I do not use anything like NSAIDS or whatever for pain management.

But it seemed as the pain lessened, so did my range of motion. I do not have the range of motion I used to. I can't squat either barbell or smith machine because I can not rotate my hand backwards enough to hold the bar in place. I have made adjustments over the years to the point that I can still get great workouts using substitute exercises. I can do Hammer Strength Inclines, but not barbell inclines. No more flyes, etc.. I do not directly train shoulders anymore.

So that brings us to today. This morning I went to the doctor with fresh MRIs and Xrays. The sports doctor basically informed me that the operation the first doctor suggested back in 2014 was useless at this point. Or any operation for that matter. I have way too much arthritis in the area for any kind of surgery except a complete shoulder replacement to be effective. Obviously, not what I wanted to hear. However, he did tell me that we would try a cortisone shot in the shoulder and twice weekly rehab for a couple of months to see if the range of motion would come back some.

Has anyone gone through this? (cortisone shot and rehab). I have researched threads on here for labrum tears but didn't really find anything with the option I was given.

I apologize for such a lengthy post but I wanted to put out as much information as I could to give a complete picture.

Thank you iron brothers.
Go with a titanium shoulder replacement were they spare the rotator cuff muscles if possible. If you do a reverse shoulder replacement you’ll lose a lot of strength because they remove the 4 rotator cuff muscles.
 

Reload

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I had severe pain at night trying to sleep. Could hardly drag a pillow across my body it hurt so bad. In the day as long as I was moving, not so bad unless I tried to reach up to grab something off a top shelf. Any overhead movement in the gym was pure pain. My issue (x2) over 1.5 years was dealing with rotator cuff tears. The second in my L shoulder was a complete tear of my supraspinatus and partial in my subscapularis. You have a rotator cuff tear. I'm almost sure of it. Your night time symptoms bring back horrible memories. I had both my shoulders repaired. The rehab was brutal but I'm 100% now. The longer you go w/o repairing it the less successful surgery will be. I'm having a hard time believing the MRI didn't find any issues with one of your rotator cuff tendons.
 

buck

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Shows the healthy shoulder bone/socket/ball surrounded by a lot of arthritis.
Doesn't sound like it is to bad then. Mine was ok enough for the last a 2-3 years. I could feel it moving around more as time went by. And over a years time it went from looking fairly normal, to looking like a ball peen hammer head. 1 of my x girlfriends would jump when i was hugging her when she felt/heard it move. I had the ream and run done on mine and don't regret it.
 

Bio

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Get two more opinions from conservative surgeons who deal with athletes and compare all three.
 

PoptartPsycho

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My first piece of advice would be to Google “Crossover Symmetry.” It enabled me to keep training by setting everything “just right” around a torn labrum and stabilizing the joint. The results were darn near miraculous.
I will look into this. It is a piece of equipment correct?
 

PoptartPsycho

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Go with a titanium shoulder replacement were they spare the rotator cuff muscles if possible. If you do a reverse shoulder replacement you’ll lose a lot of strength because they remove the 4 rotator cuff muscles.
I am trying to avoid a replacement of any kind by all possible means. The pain isn't anything anymore. During the day I forget it is there as long as I don't do barbell or dumbbell presses and flyes. It is basically a diminshed range of movement that bothers me the most.

I had the cortisone shot and start 2x weekly rehab next week. He said basically that the arthiritis was so bad doing any kind of surgery except shoulder replacement was the going to be useless.
 

IronViking69

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I will look into this. It is a piece of equipment correct?
Crossover Symmetry is a set of bands mounted at high and low points on a wall, door, etc. The genius lies in the program that corrects faulty recruitment patterns, balances the four rotator cuff muscles, and ensures that all muscles affecting the shoulder joint work in concert with one another. This provides much more security (and pain relief) when doing various exercises in a typical bodybuilding program.
 

PoptartPsycho

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I’ve been through this exact scenario. In fact, I can’t say more now because I’m headed out the door to get my shoulder drained under fluoroscopy (my arthritis produces a lot of fluid and the pressure causes more pain) and receive a cortisone shot. I do this for each shoulder every three months. It’s not ideal, but it’s the only way to avoid two shoulder replacements.
Have you had any problems with so many cortisone shots?
 

IronViking69

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Have you had any problems with so many cortisone shots?
I’ve only been getting them regularly for two years now. Two doctors have told me this can’t be a permanent solution, but no significant softening occurs after about 5 or more years of such treatments. Next month I’ll do a test (a nerve block) to see if I want to undergo subscapular ablation of one of the primary nerves feeding the shoulders. If the block provides relief, the ablation might result in permanent relief. I’m not concerned about this masking pain, since images show everything around the shoulder to be intact; the pain emanates from severe arthritis of the humeral heads. I hope to avoid shoulder replacements at almost any cost. I don’t personally know any lifters who’ve had replacements and didn’t later regret it to some degree (they continued training after rehabbing the replacements). I believe a few on this board have had more positive experiences. But I’m not ready to roll the dice yet.
 

Knight9

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I have had a completely torn labrum since March 2020..but did not have confirmation via MRI until November 2020. Along with my left side being torn, 40% of the supraspinatus is also torn, I have bicep tendonitis and tendonosis as well as a subchondral cyst in the joint. (At first it looked to me like bone degeneration..)

My tricep and bicep have atrophied quite a bit..there is no 'bow' in my tricep anymore where there used to be..and strength has been compromised as well as stability. The pain went from 9+ to 2-4 after about 30-40 days and is currently usually around a 2-3-for over a year now. However, there are times that there are sharp pains or weakness and compromised manueverability etc..and honestly, usually sleeping on my other (right) shoulder will have my injured left shoulder in agony when i wake up because it kind of collapses down on my body whilst asleep. It hurts way more like this than sleeping on the actual injured shoulder.
 

PoptartPsycho

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I have had a completely torn labrum since March 2020..but did not have confirmation via MRI until November 2020. Along with my left side being torn, 40% of the supraspinatus is also torn, I have bicep tendonitis and tendonosis as well as a subchondral cyst in the joint. (At first it looked to me like bone degeneration..)

My tricep and bicep have atrophied quite a bit..there is no 'bow' in my tricep anymore where there used to be..and strength has been compromised as well as stability. The pain went from 9+ to 2-4 after about 30-40 days and is currently usually around a 2-3-for over a year now. However, there are times that there are sharp pains or weakness and compromised manueverability etc..and honestly, usually sleeping on my other (right) shoulder will have my injured left shoulder in agony when i wake up because it kind of collapses down on my body whilst asleep. It hurts way more like this than sleeping on the actual injured shoulder.
Yes, I suffer from this as well.
 

PoptartPsycho

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I’ve only been getting them regularly for two years now. Two doctors have told me this can’t be a permanent solution, but no significant softening occurs after about 5 or more years of such treatments. Next month I’ll do a test (a nerve block) to see if I want to undergo subscapular ablation of one of the primary nerves feeding the shoulders. If the block provides relief, the ablation might result in permanent relief. I’m not concerned about this masking pain, since images show everything around the shoulder to be intact; the pain emanates from severe arthritis of the humeral heads. I hope to avoid shoulder replacements at almost any cost. I don’t personally know any lifters who’ve had replacements and didn’t later regret it to some degree (they continued training after rehabbing the replacements). I believe a few on this board have had more positive experiences. But I’m not ready to roll the dice yet.
Everything around and in the area (muscles, tendons, etc) are intact and healthy. It is just the labrum tear which lead to severe arthritis.

I had the cortisone shot Monday, and four days later (Thursday) It still feels the same. The pain has not lessen, but then again, the pain wasn't really that bad to start with. Not like it was the first two years (2012-2014) in the beginning. I only have pain now when sleeping.
 

IronViking69

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Everything around and in the area (muscles, tendons, etc) are intact and healthy. It is just the labrum tear which lead to severe arthritis.

I had the cortisone shot Monday, and four days later (Thursday) It still feels the same. The pain has not lessen, but then again, the pain wasn't really that bad to start with. Not like it was the first two years (2012-2014) in the beginning. I only have pain now when sleeping.
My cortisone shots take a few weeks to kick in.
 

TheOtherOne55

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I honestly would not get A THING done until you are really climbing up those pain numbers (you said you're at a 3 maybe....no reason to do a thing)

I had a 360 degree labrum tear when i was 21 playing football. It dislocated when it happened and my arm went completely numb. Popped back into place and partially tore the rotator cuff. I had no idea it was this bad at the time and put a sling on my arm and continued to play college football. Post season they did the MRI and were shocked. I ended up having reconstructive surgery on that shoulder (they also reattched the bicep). From then on its been pain mitigation.

I also have lot about 80% of my external rotation like you have. No more back squatting as I cant reach the bar.
If you are looking for a good piece of equipment, check out Dave Draper's Top Squat. Dr. Scott is the one to turned me onto it.

About 5 years post surgery, my shoulder was bothering me and i went it to have it checked again. Sever arthritis as well as tons of bone spurs. The surgeon told me that even if she went in and cleaned it out, there was no guarantee i would have better ROM. She said to basically keep pushing (being careful of course) until pain is at a maximum. She DID offer those cortisol shots but fuck that.
And she said the same thing to me about full shoulder replacement. She said that by 40 i would need one.

Honestly, u HAVE to train around it. ESPECIALLY if u are a 3...i would probably have some different advice for you if you were at a 9 right now.
 
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