Never drink a whey iso shake alone?

[qbkilla]

So say someone's maintenance is 3500

Every other day they are that's 3500 of lean chicken. On those days, due to the thermic effect, they would lean out?

So John eats 3500 per day isocaloric his weight remains the same.

John keeps calories the same but every other day he eats only protein, he now loses fat?

This is what it seems like from the posts I'm reading just want to confirm.

 

[Biggerp73]

Sounds smart. But i don't agree with any of that.

Well you can try it for yourself if you like. I know from experience as a genetically fat guy that puts on weight just by looking at food, I've never once gained any fat by overeating on lean proteins. And there have been times where I ate a LOT.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Our body is pretty amazing in the sense that it can usually manufacture anything it needs if you are not consuming enough of it in terms of macros.

There is gluconeogenesis (glucose) and ketogenesis (ketones)
We have lipogenesis for fatty acids (excluding 2 polyunsaturated fatty acids EFAs)
Even protein synthesis for amino acids (excluding the 9 essential amino acids EAAs)

Listed below are the fluids and micronutrients we know we MUST eat and drink to stay healthy and alive:

Essential Fluids:
Water

Essential Vitamins:
Vitamin A
Vitamin B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B7, B9, B12
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Vitamin K
Choline

Essential Minerals:
Calcium
Chloride
Chromium
Copper
Iodine
Iron
Magnesium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Phosphorus
Potassium
Selenium
Sodium
Zinc

Essential Amino Acids:
Isoleucine
Histadine
Leucine
Lysine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Tryptophan
Theonine
Valine

Essential Fatty Acids:
Alpha-linolenic acid
Linoleic acid

( @Bio feel free to put this list in the health thread if you like )

 

[LATS]

I remember Justin Harris talking about drinking whey isolate alone on Fouads Podcast. He said its better to eat real food, or make sure the
whey isolate has either fats or carbs or both in it. Drinking it alone will turn into glucose and can be verified by giving someone
who is going hypo a whey isolate to pull them out of it.

I now only drink whey in a blend of oats or peanut butter to delay gastric emptying. Just wondering what your guys thoughts on this. I know i
use to and lotta guys slam a shake in between meals or before bed, not sure if that's a bad thing now?

i guess post workout or before training fasted might be one exception?

I never drink whey alone.. every morning my breakfast is 1 cup of 2 percent milk.. 1 cup water.. 1 cup of oats.. 1 tablespoon of natural peanut butter.. 1 large scoop whey.. sometimes a whey mix..but either way all bended in my blender and then I drink it..
I found whey alone just let to gastric issues and never found it to be effective.. either I blend things with it or I get a mix of egg.. whey.. casinate..

 

[qbkilla]

Our body is pretty amazing in the sense that it can usually manufacture anything it needs if you are not consuming enough of it in terms of macros.

There is gluconeogenesis (glucose) and ketogenesis (ketones)
We have lipogenesis for fatty acids (excluding 2 polyunsaturated fatty acids EFAs)
Even protein synthesis for amino acids (excluding the 9 essential amino acids EAAs)

Listed below are the fluids and micronutrients we know we MUST eat and drink to stay healthy and alive:

Essential Fluids:
Water

Essential Vitamins:
Vitamin A
Vitamin B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B7, B9, B12
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Vitamin K
Choline

Essential Minerals:
Calcium
Chloride
Chromium
Copper
Iodine
Iron
Magnesium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Phosphorus
Potassium
Selenium
Sodium
Zinc

Essential Amino Acids:
Isoleucine
Histadine
Leucine
Lysine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Tryptophan
Theonine
Valine

Essential Fatty Acids:
Alpha-linolenic acid
Linoleic acid

( @Bio feel free to put this list in the health thread if you like )

Can you elaborate more on too much protein being harmful to kidney's? I have brought this up before on other forms and been told protein can only be harmful for people with compromised kidneys. I always assume most people who take aas have some level of kidney damage although it may be minimal

 

[Papa Van Smack]

Sounds smart. But i don't agree with any of that.

But 2g deca... right?

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Can you elaborate more on too much protein being harmful to kidney's? I have brought this up before on other forms and been told protein can only be harmful for people with compromised kidneys. I always assume most people who take aas have some level of kidney damage although it may be minimal

The Effects of High-Protein Diets on Kidney Health and Longevity - PubMed

Although high-protein diets continue to be popular for weight loss and type 2 diabetes, evidence suggests that worsening renal function may occur in individuals with-and perhaps without-impaired kidney function. High dietary protein intake can cause intraglomerular hypertension, which may result...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[heavyhitter]

So if u eat 1000 calories over maintenance with just lean meats. Your saying u won't put on fat? That's not right

It is right. Read the post by Paul carter I posted

 

[heavyhitter]

So say someone's maintenance is 3500

Every other day they are that's 3500 of lean chicken. On those days, due to the thermic effect, they would lean out?

So John eats 3500 per day isocaloric his weight remains the same.

John keeps calories the same but every other day he eats only protein, he now loses fat?

This is what it seems like from the posts I'm reading just want to confirm.

Correct. look at Jon Anderson. All he eats is like 10000 calories of meat a day and is like 330 shredded. It’s not going to be dramatic fat loss, but body composition will improve

 

[heavyhitter]

So if u eat 1000 calories over maintenance with just lean meats. Your saying u won't put on fat? That's not right

This is the most recent study from Jose Antonio that seems to prove this out. And it’s a very well put together study

 

[heavyhitter]

The Effects of High-Protein Diets on Kidney Health and Longevity - PubMed

Although high-protein diets continue to be popular for weight loss and type 2 diabetes, evidence suggests that worsening renal function may occur in individuals with-and perhaps without-impaired kidney function. High dietary protein intake can cause intraglomerular hypertension, which may result...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I know brad schoenfeld has stated he doesn’t believe there’s any risk for a high protein diet in an individual with normally functioning kidneys

 

[Type-IIx]

I know brad schoenfeld has stated he doesn’t believe there’s any risk for a high protein diet in an individual with normally functioning kidneys

Schoenfeld also defines high protein as way less than the bodybuilding community, see his most recent study on the topic. Even his 2018 position that 1.6g/kg LBM was the upper limit for net protein accrual is less than I usually see touted as optimal (i.e., 0.72g/lb LBM, not body weight).

There is a real worsening of eGFR (kidney function) with very high protein diets.

 

[heavyhitter]

Schoenfeld also defines high protein as way less than the bodybuilding community, see his most recent study on the topic. Even his 2018 position that 1.6g/kg LBM was the upper limit for net protein accrual is less than I usually see touted as optimal (i.e., 0.72g/lb LBM, not body weight).

There is a real worsening of eGFR (kidney function) with very high protein diets.

How high are we considering very high? 300? 500?

 

[Type-IIx]

How high are we considering very high? 300? 500?

Without specifically looking into it, as I doubt there's an actual value to ascribe, I'd PERSONALLY define very high protein as >7 g/kg bodyweight. This is not completely arbitrary, but definitely somewhat informed bro science. I believe around this value, you'll start seeing some people over long durations at this intake having some kidney issues that might not otherwise. Note: most will not.

 

[qbkilla]

Also, what percentage of bodybuilder have normal functioning kidneys realistically and how do we define normally functioning kidneys?

Even if a guy has creatinine in range that doesn't tell the whole story.

Overweight, high BP, BP meds + other various medications it seems people take, using whey ( I've been told this is harmful to kidneys compared to food protein), aas, stimulant's, high glucose, gh use..... would it be safe to assume most have less than ideal kidney function?

 

[Type-IIx]

Also, what percentage of bodybuilder have normal functioning kidneys realistically and how do we define normally functioning kidneys?

Even if a guy has creatinine in range that doesn't tell the whole story.

Overweight, high BP, BP meds + other various medications it seems people take, using whey ( I've been told this is harmful to kidneys compared to food protein), aas, stimulant's, high glucose, gh use..... would it be safe to assume most have less than ideal kidney function?

Well, normal kidney function is defined fairly well by eGFR (>=60; if <60 for 3+ months consecutively, then concerning). I'd say the vast majority of BBers are fine with their kidney function, since only a small % end up on dialysis or have acute renal episodes requiring hospitalization. Sure there are guys pushing the limits, but it's not widespread to see Bostin Lloyd level consequences (definitely a guy to do the opposite of).

 

[qbkilla]

Well, normal kidney function is defined fairly well by eGFR (>=60; if <60 for 3+ months consecutively, then concerning). I'd say the vast majority of BBers are fine with their kidney function, since only a small % end up on dialysis or have acute renal episodes requiring hospitalization. Sure there are guys pushing the limits, but it's not widespread to see Bostin Lloyd level consequences (definitely a guy to do the opposite of).

Yeah he would definitely win the Darwin Award, what ever happened to him? Did he have real kidney problems or was it a cry for attention?

 

[maldorf]

Your body has no storage mechanism for protein, so if it’s not utilized, it has to be converted to glucose and stored, or shit out

Yep, bodyfat.

 

[heavyhitter]

Yep, bodyfat.

Not according to Jose Antonio’s study

 

[maldorf]

Not according to Jose Antonio’s study

"Excess Protein Calories and Body Fat

Although protein offers a number of health benefits, more does not equal better. If you eat more calories than your body needs from protein sources, the excess is converted to fat, albeit in a roundabout way. Protein is first metabolized into amino acids and ammonia. The leftover carbon compound is converted into glucose, which your body uses for energy. If your cells have enough glucose, and there is no space left to store it as glycogen in your muscles or liver, the excess glucose is converted into fat and stored."

Can Protein Be Converted to Body Fat? | Livestrong.com

Whether you're trying to build muscle or lose weight, you may be adding more protein to your diet. While protein offers a number of benefits when consumed in adequate amounts, excess calories from protein are converted to body fat.

www.livestrong.com

Thats what I was taught in my college sophomore physiology course.