new thinking regarding rest in between sets??

[bigboy05]

I worked out with a very well educated and respected trainer today and we began debating how much rest/recovery is necessary in between sets during a "normal" workout. No Tabata or anything fancy, just lifting. The debate started because I said I wanted to rest before doing another set of heavy bench.

According to him there is a study, new school of thinking, that says the amount of time a body needs to recover in between sets can be decreased by simply cutting your recovery time down and your mind and body will adjust accordingly and that longer rest periods are not necessary even when lifting at the upper end of your strength limit.

I do not agree with that thinking. Lighter weight, higher rep sets, maybe, but when you are lifting 90-100% max effort I believe extended recovery time is important.

Thoughts?

 

[loganb_football]

To a degree yes. But its just simply unheard of for one to do a true max rep in say a squat or deadlift then lift take his hands of the bar, take 2 second breath then do it again. It MAY be possible for 1-3 reps but I gaurantee he won't get to 10 while truly going to max every time. One reason being, a new set point for that person's max will be set the next time...

But there can be adaptation but it has a lot to do with specificity in training...

 

[bigdozzer]

i agree longer rest helps with heavier weight

 

[Philthy]

With heavier weight I NEED to rest between sets or I can't get hardly any reps out.
I burn out too fast for the whole workout if I don't rest till my heart rate goes down a but between sets and I catch my breath.

 

[jh2010]

With heavier weight I NEED to rest between sets or I can't get hardly any reps out.
I burn out too fast for the whole workout if I don't rest till my heart rate goes down a but between sets and I catch my breath.

I'm the same way. If I don't take adequate breaks in between sets, my muscles will be burned out in 15-20 minutes.

 

[tenny]

first of all.........

how long is a longer rest????

how long is a shorter rest??????

a rest period should be long enough
for your heart rate to adjust to normal
(which again, this can vary too)
after properly oxygenating the muscle

the harder your pushing the longer its gonna take
and vise-versa(so again, this can VARY!!!!)

ex.

i do a set of heavy bench 80% max for 4 maybe 5

or

i do a 100 rep set of leg presses with 30% or 40% max

which set is gonna take me longer to recover from????:lightbulb:

 

[Lenny]

first of all.........

how long is a longer rest????

how long is a shorter rest??????

a rest period should be long enough
for your heart rate to adjust to normal
(which again, this can vary too)
after properly oxygenating the muscle

the harder your pushing the longer its gonna take
and vise-versa(so again, this can VARY!!!!)

ex.

i do a set of heavy bench 80% max for 4 maybe 5

or

i do a 100 rep set of leg presses with 30% or 40% max

which set is gonna take me longer to recover from????:lightbulb:

For me a freaking high rep range would kill my breathing, so I would have to catch my breath, till I stopped huffy and puffy before I hit another freaky high rep set.

Now, with a heavy ass load set for less reps, I would need to sit back for about 2-4 minutes at most to regain some of my strength back for a heavy ass load set, then bang out another set. The issue I have here is my strength only last for very few sets per compound lifts...so for me it is usually warming it up, then on all out set.

As Tenny said, it varies!

 

[tenny]

exactly!!!!!

i do all my heavy work first thing after warm-ups

1 heavy set

now i'll work my way up to heavy
but, i always save some and stop early
so i'll have it THE HEAVY SET

 

[myosin]

Goal specific too...

first of all.........

how long is a longer rest????

how long is a shorter rest??????

a rest period should be long enough
for your heart rate to adjust to normal
(which again, this can vary too)
after properly oxygenating the muscle

the harder your pushing the longer its gonna take
and vise-versa(so again, this can VARY!!!!)

ex.

i do a set of heavy bench 80% max for 4 maybe 5

or

i do a 100 rep set of leg presses with 30% or 40% max

which set is gonna take me longer to recover from????:lightbulb:

I get what you are saying and I agree. I would add that it's also somewhat "goal specific".

If someone is performing maximum weights for 1-3 reps, as you know, the energy system used is basically the ATP-CP cycle. This cycle takes anywhere from 3-5 minutes for ATP stores to be restored. So if someone is training for powerlifting and/or maximum strength, they may need those "longer" rest periods.

 

[tenny]

the other side of the coin is....

will a higher rep set be MORE taxing to the muscle
or the heart????

will it take longer or less time than lower rep set?????

because i gotta tell ya....thoughs high rep sets
is what takes the oxygen!!!!!

it takes me longer to recover from a higher rep set
because.......well......i cant fucking breath!!!!!

a heavier set is much less rest

i feel if i rest too long i will start to get cold
which could lead to injury

so my heart recovers faster for me on heavier sets!!!!!!!!
most of the time i still dont even have a pump
AFTER the heavy set!!!!

 

[Ashop]

i agree longer rest helps with heavier weight

I think so too,,,when lifting real heavy. Nothing too long though,,,you want to keep intensity up.

 

[bigboy05]

All very valid points and most I used during my debate. I just can't understand how this is logical? I would really like to find the study to which my friend is referring to. Even if your body could adapt to a "standard shorter rest period" vs. a "longer rest period", I don't see how there could be any significant strength gains? Maybe build up some conditioning, stamina? Then the whole dynamic of your training changes. Hmmmm.

 

[Emery]

I agree with Tenny. I listen to my body. I don't jump back into a heavy set of squats if my heart is still pounding and I am still catching my breath from the last set.

I am trying to bodybuild, not do cardio. I save cardio for the treadmill!

 

[loganb_football]

the other side of the coin is....

will a higher rep set be MORE taxing to the muscle
or the heart????

will it take longer or less time than lower rep set?????

because i gotta tell ya....thoughs high rep sets
is what takes the oxygen!!!!!

it takes me longer to recover from a higher rep set
because.......well......i cant fucking breath!!!!!

a heavier set is much less rest

i feel if i rest too long i will start to get cold
which could lead to injury

so my heart recovers faster for me on heavier sets!!!!!!!!
most of the time i still dont even have a pump
AFTER the heavy set!!!!

Its not so much the heart that needs to recover, its more so the oxygen consumption needed for high rep work vs low rep work. As myosin was getting at, low reps vs. high reps differ in energy systems. Higher rep work also calls upon slow twitch fibers which thrive in a more oxygen rich environment. Once lactic acid begins to build up and coincidingly you begin to reach your rep limit, this is when fast twitch fibers begin to really do their work...

But check your blood pressure after a rep max and one after a load for 20. You wont see a huge difference immediately after. But because the body needs to recover, the higher rep ranges keep you breathing like a train and keep your bp and heart rate up for a while longer than a normal max set. But are they both taxing? Yes.

 

[UGAthlete]

Without seeing these studies, I'd bet this is the issue: The actual muscle is able to produce the same amount of force with much shorter rest period than we normally take, but since it's up to your mind to produce those action potentials, etc - that's going to be the deciding factor; CNS. If you're gassed, you're not going to recruit the same amount of fibers in said muscle = less force.

I say your both right, but 'our' way seems to be the best practice.

 

[sinfulimages]

I dont do a lot of 1-3 rep sets I always go for 6 minimum but I go so that by the time I get to 6 or 7 I have to do forced reps with my training partner. I have to rest a while between sets. A couple minutes anyway. Long enough for him to go and for me to catch my breath.

When we go light and are just trying to get blood to the muscle the rest is very short. I go then he goes and then I go again with the only rest being the time it takes for him to do his set.

Heavy ass weight = a few minutes to breath

 

[bufbiker]

I'm an old dude (53) who's been training a long time. For years as a power lifter, more recently (past couple of years) I shed some pounds and doing the body building approach. I have to agree that when your atp stores are depleted by a heavy set it takes a bit longer to recover than a set of 25 reps at a lighter weight. Now sucking air is a whole different story. It's impossible to take 90-120 seconds between sets when you've just pumped out 10 reps of 600 plus pound squats. You'll pass out from hyperventilation if you junp right back on it. I'm old and in no hurry and not trying to compete or impress anyone except myself, so I take as much time between sets as I want to without getting cold in between. Now if I were still in competition mode, I'd jump back on it much much quicker.

 

[cm]

found training with 10-20 sec btwn sets of low reps(4-6) 4 x to be very effective when returning to heavy sets the following week. Endurance is higher and just banging away at the high weight sets every week doesn't make sense, especially when it is not moving up weekly.

 

[brineal]

im not sure that there is any set "best" rest period, for the majority of us, waiting until you simply feel ready to attack another set should be more than adequate. its difficult to determine because theres also a difference b/w exercises in addition to the weights being used, i definitely feel ready to go quicker after a hard set of skullcrushers than after squats so theres an implication for the exercise itself being part of the equation here..


Also logan_football hit the nail on the head with specificity in training in regard to a training effect caused by controlling rest periods. For example, a college football team will often have timed workouts of no more than 1-2 min/set for each player in order to ensure a constistant high intensity workout which is necessary to train the energy systems drawn from during the game.

 

[pupeye]

the amount of time a body needs to recover in between sets can be decreased by simply cutting your recovery time down

I take this to mean you can train yourself to need lest rest. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to. We can train oursleves to get stronger, we can train ourselves to do more reps with a set weight, so why not be able to train ourselves to need less rest... it's just a matter of implementing.