No more DECA or EQ ???

[thanosnap]

“If you have cancer and you are a mouse, we can take good care of you. Judah Folkman”

“Despite all of the documented differences between mice and humans, and despite the history of “errors in translation” in the application of research on mice to humans, reports of research on mice are frequently accompanied by unwarranted and misleading claims, such as “Furthering our understanding of mouse X should provide novel insights into human Y.” Such claims raise false hopes and are ultimately self-defeating, in that they waste resources and increase public skepticism concerning the value of biomedical research. Indeed, the problems of translating research on mice and other model organisms to humans have led a number of scientists to question the value of this research.”

Mouse models of human disease: An evolutionary perspective

The use of mice as model organisms to study human biology is predicated on the genetic and physiological similarities between the species. Nonetheless, mice and humans have evolved in and become adapted to different environments and so, despite their ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The other thing about animal research is that these researchers want/need to get published, and nobody is watching over their shoulder to make sure they don't fudge the numbers. With human trials you have nurses, doctors, patients and medical records so the trail is a bit more concrete. a lot of times these people are all blinded, but the publisher often wants a close look at the data and it's just harder to fake.

 

[Muay Thai]

The same dog supposedly got into some halo this guy left in his car and then ate his leather interior.

SWIM had cats who took stanz and it put the girl cat in heat eventually and made the male shredded, like freaky shredded and spiderman agility, he would jump and let him self hang by his claws like a stretched out lat pull, i swear he knew what was going on. it seemed as he flexed and hit a pose every step it was insane. He caught a fucking hummingbird in mid air and ate it. the guy was super aggressive and finally mated with the girl cat after ripping her hair out and dragging her around patio by her neck. the girl got pregnant and had ONE KITTEN. cutest kitten ever. anyway they were rescue cats and had PARVO and were about dead and emaciated upon reception, the stanza saved their life I'm sure people will have things to say but the vet was quite impressed upon hearing the story weeks later. also was giving them virgin coconut oil to fatten them up and for the lauric acid benefit etc. will have to post a pic of all 3 of them snuggling, cute family alive and thriving according to myth and legend.

 

[Muay Thai]

He knows what he's talking about

earlier i heard him say he didnt know if oral stanz caused soft tissue infections, i had to laugh at that, besides that he seems decent

 

[maxmusle1]

Nothing is off the table . Test/Deca w EQ or Primo have all Been effective(alone and together/low&mod dose). If I could only do primo or mast - I’d definitely be bald, especially since I love Provi(although it doesn’t thin my hair). Mast P and high primo are awesome but, I cannot use for long periods. Just my physiology.

I’m sure EQ or Deca “could” be toxic in some way or amount. I have not had any experiences (with any issues) w either besides raised RBC(which I have had since childhood). EQ isn’t made for humans(in US) but we used it until 2017 in Horseracing on Multi-Million(some over $100million), it definitely improves performance and helps increase LBM. Real EQ . Deca is very popular for addition to TRT w gentleman w joint and/or bone pain, past injuries….probably need high mg weekly for that but IDK honestly .

Max

 

[headtrainer]

i get better RBC induced vascularity from anadrol everytime even at high dose eq go figure ,,according to the MD anabolic doc nearly all AAS increase RBC to an extent

I read that Anadrol increases red blood cells at a faster rate than EQ, but then drops off over time. EQ increases red blood cells at a slower rate than anadrol but can surpass it when taken for long durations.

 

[b-boy]

For all you guys saying "I've never had a problem" are you getting brain scans while on deca, brains scans before deca to base changes off of? How do you know deca is not doing damage to your brain?

Just questions. It's kind of like having high blood pressure for 10 years but saying wow I'm shocked cause I always felt fine

 

[thanosnap]

For all you guys saying "I've never had a problem" are you getting brain scans while on deca, brains scans before deca to base changes off of? How do you know deca is not doing damage to your brain?

Just questions. It's kind of like having high blood pressure for 10 years but saying wow I'm shocked cause I always felt fine

To be fair, which brain scan are you referring to? MRI or PET? They won't tell you much even if you have a severe mental disorder and are trying to confirm changes from psych meds with it. Mental symptoms is just one of those things you feel.

 

[b-boy]

To be fair, which brain scan are you referring to? MRI or PET? They won't tell you much even if you have a severe mental disorder and are trying to confirm changes from psych meds with it. Mental symptoms is just one of those things you feel.

We are talking brain deterioration

 

[Lilleo187]

We are talking brain deterioration

Your talking like deca is tren lol. All them bodybuilders from the 70s took mainly deca
They all seem fine.

 

[thanosnap]

We are talking brain deterioration

What would you expect to see on the scan showing deterioration? With alzheimers you get the beta ameloid plaques and parkinson's the lewy bodies... sometimes there's shrinkage and not from the cold

But then associating it with deca/tren with a one person sample would be hard. And they don't even recommend doing those scans for alzheimers anymore because it doesn't change anything. Dementia is dementia.

 

[jeroendebleser]

For all you guys saying "I've never had a problem" are you getting brain scans while on deca, brains scans before deca to base changes off of? How do you know deca is not doing damage to your brain?

Just questions. It's kind of like having high blood pressure for 10 years but saying wow I'm shocked cause I always felt fine

Strictly speaking for myself, I haven't no.

I'll also be the first to admit I don't know much if anything at all about AAS' neurotoxicity and I probably should.

Regarding the Deca vs EQ, I was strictly talking about the results/gains they bring about. Not the side effects or long term health consequences.

But it's always refreshing to read other people's opinions or new information on here. That's what I'm here for, one can always learn and you've got to keep an open mind at all times

 

[qbkilla]

I opened this thread because I have my own opinions on Deca and EQ over a long period of time. My opinions are my own and purely anecdotal.
I'm not going to get into a debate about any gurus as I haven't paid enough time to speak properly on the issue, and do not anticipate doing so.

Test and Deca were the bread and butter of bodybuilding for a long time. There was good reason for this - they work. EQ gained favor somewhere around the late 80s and early 90s. I think it was in part due to the amount of fake Deca on the market while we could buy Equibold in a 50cc bottle we knew (?) was real. Also Dan Duchaine has some feelings on it which may have given it some notoriety, and in the late 80s people were chasing what was new (even though Parabolan was plentiful then - imagine that!)

I also never, ever heard of "Deca Dick" before the internet, nor EQ induced anxiety.
Not saying it isn't real - just never heard of it from either my friends or peers in the gym, nor from my dealer who was a primary in the region at the time. He named his dog Deca, so it can't be all bad anyway.
Again, all anecdotal, but I think sometimes these things are self-fulfilling prophecies, seeing as message board are flooded with these notions. I cannot say for sure.

In my experience, Deca performs the best with the least sides, mg for mg. EQ is a non-optimal alternate for Deca when I just want to change things up for a while.
Deca will always be in my toolbox, EQ often on the second shelf as I feel it is inferior for bodybuilding compared to Deca - in my experience.

There are other hormones out there, each with its own strengths and weaknesses that will likely vary per individual.
Each of us can take the "popular" information, do their own "testing" and come to their own conclusions.

Good post very good points. I agree about the deca dick and anxiety, never experienced either. I've seen people hype eq saying it grows delts specially never got felt growth from EQ above or beyond any other aas.

 

[iron lifter]

i remember reading something that most of the symptoms people experience are caused in the era of online boards and internet. they read others having it and they were also looking for those symptoms and you get what you look for lol. heck i know some people that took gear back in the 80s and 90s did no pct just came off cause they didn't know any better and were fine had kids etc . no side affects or symptoms.

eq gives anxiety , it does this is and that, is all anecdotal. i have had more symptoms and side affects now after learning what others have gone thru than i did back in my 20s. back than it was just tren that made me snap and little bit of heart burn from dbol. nothing else ever bothered me.

 

[Bleed]

One thing everyone overlooks when they are thinking about getting huge vascular and shredded for the first time is that most take "dry" compounds to get there. So not only do they take EQ, tren, etc but they also take an anti E or even letro without having the first idea what their estrogen level is.

Low E can cause anxiety. I would bet after running high dose eq again in the last few years, that the EQ wasnt the culprit. My bet would be crashed estrogen but the internet hivemind reaches it's own conclusions.

i remember reading something that most of the symptoms people experience are caused in the era of online boards and internet. they read others having it and they were also looking for those symptoms and you get what you look for lol. heck i know some people that took gear back in the 80s and 90s did no pct just came off cause they didn't know any better and were fine had kids etc . no side affects or symptoms.

eq gives anxiety , it does this is and that, is all anecdotal. i have had more symptoms and side affects now after learning what others have gone thru than i did back in my 20s. back than it was just tren that made me snap and little bit of heart burn from dbol. nothing else ever bothered me.

 

[iron lifter]

One thing everyone overlooks when they are thinking about getting huge vascular and shredded for the first time is that most take "dry" compounds to get there. So not only do they take EQ, tren, etc but they also take an anti E or even letro without having the first idea what their estrogen level is.

Low E can cause anxiety. I would bet after running high dose eq again in the last few years, that the EQ wasnt the culprit. My bet would be crashed estrogen but the internet hivemind reaches it's own conclusions.

that and at the end of the day all these are hormones. there can be other things going on in body in your life that you may not account for and sometimes certain PEDS can make things worse. i know for a fact i can't run tren anymore no more space in my life to run that. but even than when i did run it i made sure there were not other things that jacked up my sympathetic nervous system such as clen caffeine stims that would make running tren that much harder.

its usually never one thing that does it, but gets the entire blame for it.

 

[marssel]

I opened this thread because I have my own opinions on Deca and EQ over a long period of time. My opinions are my own and purely anecdotal.
I'm not going to get into a debate about any gurus as I haven't paid enough time to speak properly on the issue, and do not anticipate doing so.

Test and Deca were the bread and butter of bodybuilding for a long time. There was good reason for this - they work. EQ gained favor somewhere around the late 80s and early 90s. I think it was in part due to the amount of fake Deca on the market while we could buy Equibold in a 50cc bottle we knew (?) was real. Also Dan Duchaine has some feelings on it which may have given it some notoriety, and in the late 80s people were chasing what was new (even though Parabolan was plentiful then - imagine that!)

I also never, ever heard of "Deca Dick" before the internet, nor EQ induced anxiety.
Not saying it isn't real - just never heard of it from either my friends or peers in the gym, nor from my dealer who was a primary in the region at the time. He named his dog Deca, so it can't be all bad anyway.
Again, all anecdotal, but I think sometimes these things are self-fulfilling prophecies, seeing as message board are flooded with these notions. I cannot say for sure.

In my experience, Deca performs the best with the least sides, mg for mg. EQ is a non-optimal alternate for Deca when I just want to change things up for a while.
Deca will always be in my toolbox, EQ often on the second shelf as I feel it is inferior for bodybuilding compared to Deca - in my experience.

There are other hormones out there, each with its own strengths and weaknesses that will likely vary per individual.
Each of us can take the "popular" information, do their own "testing" and come to their own conclusions.

My opinion is the opposite as EQ ha

I opened this thread because I have my own opinions on Deca and EQ over a long period of time. My opinions are my own and purely anecdotal.
I'm not going to get into a debate about any gurus as I haven't paid enough time to speak properly on the issue, and do not anticipate doing so.

Test and Deca were the bread and butter of bodybuilding for a long time. There was good reason for this - they work. EQ gained favor somewhere around the late 80s and early 90s. I think it was in part due to the amount of fake Deca on the market while we could buy Equibold in a 50cc bottle we knew (?) was real. Also Dan Duchaine has some feelings on it which may have given it some notoriety, and in the late 80s people were chasing what was new (even though Parabolan was plentiful then - imagine that!)

I also never, ever heard of "Deca Dick" before the internet, nor EQ induced anxiety.
Not saying it isn't real - just never heard of it from either my friends or peers in the gym, nor from my dealer who was a primary in the region at the time. He named his dog Deca, so it can't be all bad anyway.
Again, all anecdotal, but I think sometimes these things are self-fulfilling prophecies, seeing as message board are flooded with these notions. I cannot say for sure.

In my experience, Deca performs the best with the least sides, mg for mg. EQ is a non-optimal alternate for Deca when I just want to change things up for a while.
Deca will always be in my toolbox, EQ often on the second shelf as I feel it is inferior for bodybuilding compared to Deca - in my experience.

There are other hormones out there, each with its own strengths and weaknesses that will likely vary per individual.
Each of us can take the "popular" information, do their own "testing" and come to their own conclusions.

my opinion is opposite for me EQ was what others said deca would do, again FOR ME, is a good way. So I’ll follow EQ anexiety just heard that here I have ptsd as a vet and after test eq is my go to. Now deca dick is very real I’ve had many guys insist I keep deca in their cycles and it works fine where it occurs is if a 19 Nor (deca) supersedes you actual androgens particularly test bc it has a weaker affect on sensitivity on your dick so you don’t get the feeling you need to stay erect. I’ve had hundreds come to me with it and we upped the test and within weeks it was solved but it’s less so the deca and more the user bc guys who go on high dose winny only summer cycles get it too soo there’s that

 

[totalrecomp]

I have a client that is a neurosurgeon, and I've shared some of the information with him that these guys use to validate their points. (E.g random test with a sample size of 20 people done 20 years ago or a test done on rat.)

He just lol'd and told me these idiots should be in jail for trying to play doctor.

If you dig into well researched supplements such as glucosamine, you can find hundreds of large scale and well funded studies and each study will have a different outcome, some being completely contrary to one another. Guys like Victor post 1 or 2 half ass'd and poorly funded studies and make conclusions based on them. Give me a fucking break. Lol yes, pay attention to these guys if you want medical advise from guys that probably haven't passed a basic chemistry course.

These guys are a fucking menace to society and don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

Gee your right why didn't he use the large sample size multi-decade studies on humans........was it because they don't support his theories or hypothesis????? Oh wait it's because THEY DON'T EXIST!

We have to work with what's available and calling someone a menace to society for suggesting there may be a safer approach for most of us who are not chasing an ifbb open pro cards is ridiculous.

Only in BB is the guy trying to get folks to be safer considered a "menace" lol.

I'M NOT saying Victor is absolutely right but IMO much(not all as his personality is an acquired taste for sure) of the blowback is MANY people are sitting here with 2+ decades of EQ/DECA use under their belts and don't want to even entertain the idea that MAYBE they caused more damage than intended/necessary. MANY people seem to NEED their choices to remain correct in their minds.

 

[b-boy]

Gee your right why didn't he use the large sample size multi-decade studies on humans........was it because they don't support his theories or hypothesis????? Oh wait it's because THEY DON'T EXIST!

We have to work with what's available and calling someone a menace to society for suggesting there may be a safer approach for most of us who are not chasing an ifbb open pro cards is ridiculous.

Only in BB is the guy trying to get folks to be safer considered a "menace" lol.

Only in bodybuilding.....isn't that crazy

 

[luki7788]

There is a lot of talk now that the EQ lowers the e2 level, but has anyone really noticed it?

I am not convinced by Derek's arguments from YT, after that the blood tests of the people he presented in the material were with high EQ and low testosterone. I have never heard of anyone having problems with too low estrogen using, for example, 1.2g test + 900mg EQ

 

[Elvia1023]

Good post very good points. I agree about the deca dick and anxiety, never experienced either. I've seen people hype eq saying it grows delts specially never got felt growth from EQ above or beyond any other aas.

Regarding anxiety etc it is very true the US and the UK have become much softer over the years. I won't even go into the details but I am sure guys will agree this particular subject has exploded especially over the last 5 years. Some of the stories (most being true) are ridiculous and the thought of many of today's youth ever having to go to war seems surreal. However I must state that things were much different in the past and people were much more private on such matters.

Social media was created and as it's grew so has the amount of people sharing private details regarding the mental and physical health to the world. What young people see today compared to 50 years ago is vastly different. You have kids seeing things they should never see because they all have full internet access. It's no wonder so many kids are so fucked up in a variety of ways. Our brains also change as we get older and become more susceptible to illness. My dad told me about his dad staying in a mental asylum for a very short time many years ago. They didn't understand such conditions back then and certainly didn't know how to treat them. He had what you would call a mental break down due to severe stress back then and was fine after a short time. These sort of stories would be hidden from most in those times because they weren't as socially acceptable. In today's society some people are almost proud to tell people about their latest mental issue and crave attention because of it.

It's definitely gone too far the other way and many seem to have anxiety and/or depression and are on some form of medication. It doesn't help that doctors throw medications at people for the slightest bit of anxiety/stress. Nevertheless, anxiety from alterations in brain chemistry bought on by various drugs (including AAS) are a very real thing. The same for other side effects created by imbalances in test, estrogen, prolactin, cortisol etc. All in all they can definitely contribute to mental illness in both the short (anxiety) and long term (neurotoxicity). Deca especially when combined with highly aromatizing drugs (test for example) can definitely create issues for a lot of men.

I 100% get issues from tren, eq and hcg so I have to be very careful with how I dose them. I added HCG in the other day and after my 2nd shot I went to bed and woke in in the middle of a panic attack which hasn't happened for a long time. I felt off in the days after my 1st injection but I was ok and had hoped my body would adapt the longer I was on. At the same time you also hear a lot of crap from people thinking these drugs done something they clearly didn't and no matter what people are going through or taking they usually blame their current AAS stack for whatever they feel.