O/T Object in New York sky

[Tom]

TKAV....not trying to discredit your knowledge of physics but just throwing this out there. some have the attitude that if we can't do it then it can't be done. but i see this as human arrogance. why couldn't advanced life forms have propulsion systems that embrace laws of physics that we couldn't even begin to comprehend that would enable them to travel at many,many times the speed of light? couldn't our laws of physics as we understand them pale in comparison to what exists in the universe? again not trying to argue with you but rather discuss the fact that what we as humans understand about the physics of the universe could just be the tip of the iceberg?

 

[tkav1980]

TKAV....not trying to discredit your knowledge of physics but just throwing this out there. some have the attitude that if we can't do it then it can't be done. but i see this as human arrogance. why couldn't advanced life forms have propulsion systems that embrace laws of physics that we couldn't even begin to comprehend that would enable them to travel at many,many times the speed of light? couldn't our laws of physics as we understand them pale in comparison to what exists in the universe? again not trying to argue with you but rather discuss the fact that what we as humans understand about the physics of the universe could just be the tip of the iceberg?

Its less about what we dont know and more about statistics. everything out there is soooo big that its unlikely that anything would come visit us, Even accidently. thats not to say we wont eventually go visit things out in the cosmos, but rather , the statistical probability of us contacting one race or another is so tiny its really just a crap shoot. meaning decidedly choosing to contact race x vs. race y.

The funny thing about Physics is that If the laws of Physics were any different than they are we wouldnt be here to observe them .

I'm sure there will be revolutions in our understanding of the universe, many many times over. However we do have at least a basic set of facts, that can be experimentally tested that say we do know that a few things are absolutely true.


I'd bet my own life that theres other intelligent life in the universe. and i believe we will finally contact one of them in the near future(next 100 years). but this will be done via radio signal not actual Physical contact. Although if they are much more advanced that could set the stage for a visit.

A little while back a Phycisist came up with an equation showing how you would manipulate spacetime to literally build a star trek warpdrive. Now this is only an exercise in mathmatics because some of the variables required are physical impossibilities, so far. Alcubierre drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So is it that far fetched to think someone somewhere solved some of these problems? not at all. but in space you literally have in infinate number of directions to travel in. the odds of coming here are extremely slim.

one of the problems i have with the claims of ET visiting is an astounding lack of evidence. which can be expected dealing with an advanced species. however if they were that advanced, there would be no claims made as we would have no idea theyre even here. so that in turn brings us back to the idea that outstanding claims require outstanding evidence.

I dont mean to sound like a hargenger of sorrow, but most people grossly underestimate the challange of exploring the cosmos, for any species at any level of advancement. its not an impossibility, its just mind shatteringly extensive hurdles that must be crossed.


ive been slightly scatterbrained typing this but i hope i conveyed my thoughts enough to follow.

 

[waynaferd]

Maybe they teleport like in the movie Jumper.

If I could have 1 special power it would be that.

 

[tkav1980]

Maybe they teleport like in the movie Jumper.

If I could have 1 special power it would be that.

Hiesenberg Uncertantity Principle Negates that possibility.

 

[waynaferd]

I have no idea WTF you just said, LOL, but I'm sure you're right!!

 

[tkav1980]

I have no idea WTF you just said, LOL, but I'm sure you're right!!

That rule states that you can never measure a particles exact velocity and exact position simultaneously, because the act of takeing one measurement actually changes the other measurement. thats why beam me up will never work. you would need to account for the exact position and energy state of every sub atomic particle in a human body.


electrons actually give us the biggest problem that I know about. electrons do some verry wierd things. they can be in 2 places at once, briefly blink out of existence all together, and just cant be pinned down.

 

[IRON37]

ok so apparently everyone on here has watched the ancient alien stuff on the history channel lol.

Even if the stuff over new york was balloons, who knows what to believe when were used to being lied to. As far as trying to make sense of the whys or hows of anything beyond our own little planet.. were just being arrogant. Thinking we could actually comprehend it with our human minds. Does make for some odd interesting discussions though until the r- word comes in. :st:r-wars

 

[tkav1980]

ok so apparently everyone on here has watched the ancient alien stuff on the history channel lol.

Even if the stuff over new york was balloons, who knows what to believe when were used to being lied to. As far as trying to make sense of the whys or hows of anything beyond our own little planet.. were just being arrogant. Thinking we could actually comprehend it with our human minds. Does make for some odd interesting discussions though until the r- word comes in. :st:r-wars

I believe, at this point in human history, thet we are on the verge of fantistic discoveries and scientific advancement. things beyond our wildest dreams and the fiction of our greatest scifi. it would be a good idea for everyone to pay verry close attention to the sciences right now. in 500 years, text books will talk about advances, coming in the next 50 years, that changed everything for humanity. I cant encourage people enough to learn about these things. Whats being worked on right now, could destroy us, or open up an entire new world in our existence. It is so important to our continued existence that our species will not survive if we do not turn our attention to such matters.

believe me when i say none of us would be here now if it were not for men and women, who did not care about politics, religion, money, racial difference, and devoted themselves to figuring out the cosmos in which we live. to anyone who wants to read and learn PM me. i will get you any information you want to answer questions you might have.

Its funny to think that realistically, the next newton, Einstein, Hawking...etc, was born into this generation. waiting out in the world somewhere for someone to tell them about black holes, or biological processes, to ignite a spark that will lead them to ask enough questions to lead us into a new renissance of scientific discovery.

Please, whatever you do, never stop asking questions. No matter what your interrest, constantly question it, think, learn, use your brain. the worst case senario would be you now have a wealth of knowledge that you never had before.


Imagine what it would feel like to have your child ask you where the stars come from and you have to look down, and say "I don't Know". think about it.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

That rule states that you can never measure a particles exact velocity and exact position simultaneously, because the act of takeing one measurement actually changes the other measurement. thats why beam me up will never work. you would need to account for the exact position and energy state of every sub atomic particle in a human body.


electrons actually give us the biggest problem that I know about. electrons do some verry wierd things. they can be in 2 places at once, briefly blink out of existence all together, and just cant be pinned down.

And the CRAZY thing.........is they know when they are being observed......almost like........we are in control of these sub atomic particles.....

 

[PHIL HERNON]

T

The issue with that is quite simple. other dimensions do exist in our own space however they are physical dimensions like x,y,and z. these dimensions are curled up verry tiny but are infinately long.making them everywhere at once. What your referring to is in actuallity paralell universes. Which dont exist in our own space and which there are in infinate number of. so now the odds of them popping a hole into our universe become infinity to one. so you can see the dilema in actually making contact this way.

Then a different problem arises. the odds are there exists a different law of Physics in their universe, making their ability to survive in our universe zero.
So for us to be visited by extraterrestials they would have to come from our universe. bringing us back to the problem of distance.

If anyone would like to discuss any of this, or has any questions about Physics in general, feel free to post them here. i cant promise that i can answer EVERYTHING, only having a bachelors in physics, but i can look up anything i cant rightly explain and give you some answers.

Can you explain this a BIT More please??

 

[tkav1980]

And the CRAZY thing.........is they know when they are being observed......almost like........we are in control of these sub atomic particles.....

Extremely interresting observation. I have an article saved at home, its written in Laymans terms, about why we see this electron behovior. If i can get the scanner here at work working tomorrow ill upload it as a PDF here.

just give this some thought. are we in control of these particles or is this observation a result of our limited ability to take proper measurements? Or is it a limitation of out poor 4 dimensional(x,y,z +time) perception of our universe.

 

[tkav1980]

Can you explain this a BIT More please??

there is a few ideas about multiple universes. one states that our universe is actually infinate, and due to sheer size there is an infinate number of copies of our visible universe. However what im talking about in the part you put in bold can fit into either M-theory, or the bubble multiverse.

In M-theory the big bang happened when 2 giant brane's colided, that energy created our big bang, and the fact that these branes are not flat but wavey accounts for the lack of entropy, or the clustering of matter and energy in our universe. now since these branes colided once, with a specific energy and it was a specific pattern, our universe was born. these membranes, floating in an ocean of membranes collide and new universes are born all the time.


A different theory suggests that our universe is like a bubble floating in a giant sea of bubbles, new universes popping up all the time. In fact, from this theory, at least mathmatically, it is verry easy to create your verry own universe in your basement. what would happen is the newly created universe, would instantly pinch itself off from our space-time and rapidally expand to cosmic proportions. creating its own space as it grows. similar to M-theory, these new universes are born every time one bubble crashes into another with the force and energy of 2 universes colliding.




To be honest, there are 5 MAYBE 6 people on earth that TRULY understand these concepts. everyone else just looks and the math and gets a bit lightheaded. As of our present understanding these are purly mathmatical models, Although they somewhat explain some things and have HUGE holes in them one thing they do is eliminate a few impossibilities.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

Extremely interresting observation. I have an article saved at home, its written in Laymans terms, about why we see this electron behovior. If i can get the scanner here at work working tomorrow ill upload it as a PDF here.

just give this some thought. are we in control of these particles or is this observation a result of our limited ability to take proper measurements? Or is it a limitation of out poor 4 dimensional(x,y,z +time) perception of our universe.

Or are we being manipulated......

 

[tkav1980]

Or are we being manipulated......

hers is where you need to be careful. this begins to move from science into philosophy. we need to stay within scientific observation, and sound mathmatical models.

 

[eu80]

i dont belive it is a UFO

 

[nickels]

**broken link removed**

 

[ICU11b]

electrons actually give us the biggest problem that I know about. electrons do some verry wierd things. they can be in 2 places at once, briefly blink out of existence all together, and just cant be pinned down.

Isnt this where Einsteins theories start to fizzle?

 

[tkav1980]

Isnt this where Einsteins theories start to fizzle?

actually this is what pissed off Einstein about the emerging field of quantum theory at around 1912. This was where you get his famous quote "God does not play dice with the universe."

 

[IRON37]

I believe, at this point in human history, thet we are on the verge of fantistic discoveries and scientific advancement. things beyond our wildest dreams and the fiction of our greatest scifi. it would be a good idea for everyone to pay verry close attention to the sciences right now.

I wasnt trying to downplay anyone trying to understand things btw, I just dont know how else to really say "the 'possibly' eternal universe will always be beyond our minds, at least for a long time". Which I do find very frustrating myself.

For a relatively young civilization I will say humanity is capable of INCREDIBLE things when we focus on it and work together. I just hope I live long enough to see the future generations finally just explode through our many barriers,social,mental, physcical etc. Exciting time period to be alive imo.

 

[btech]

Balloons from a nearby elementary school.