Recovery after 3yrs of TRT***Update***

[goback2013]

i have fathered 4 healthily born children while running continuous and heavy amounts of test, tren, mast, fill in the blank..

i started in 1998 and didnt come off until 2008. so it is possible to have kids while on gear... heavy, toxic gear even.

 

[nwiron]

No worries! I'm going to follow this thread because it's interesting, I had the same problem and my out come, well let's just say I don't have kids of my own. But that's not to say the same will happen to u. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for u, and I hope it works out. You can call ur local university and see if they can do the test. It's typically free. Shit u can do it u just need a microscope, if u see even one then move on to the next step. Good luck!

Sage

This is a great idea! I am going to look into the college near by. Thanks for the help and again sorry for the misinterpretation. What happened with you if you don't mind me asking?

NW

 

[caedus]

i really dont think the numbers are worthless it shows that someone can have a decent recovery after 3 years of being shutdown.

If that dude is trying not to be a dick...TRY HARDER cowboy

"May the force be with you all"

 

[SAGE74]

This is a great idea! I am going to look into the college near by. Thanks for the help and again sorry for the misinterpretation. What happened with you if you don't mind me asking?

NW

They really aren't sure. It could have been the steroid usage over the years, or I had some damage done in a car accident that may have caused it. No way to pinpoint exactly what happen.

 

[discohornet]

Oh, and TRT DOES shut you down almost 100% of the time. When I refer to "shutdown" it means the body's endocrine system

Fair enough. Let me make a distinction. Being "not shutdown" and being "recovered" are two different things, I'll give you that.

So you are not "shutdown" but you are in no way "recovered".

Your body is making testosterone and sperm because it is being artificially stimulated by HCG. Once the HCG is gone, you will go through a second "shutdown", and the process of your "recovery" will start all over again.

Then and only then, if you get your T levels back up to a healthy range, can you consider yourself fully recovered from HRT.

Until then you are basically STILL ON HRT. You are replacing a hormone that your body normally produces (LH) with HCG in order to maintain testicular function. Once the HCG is done mimicking LH you will find out if you can fully recover or not.

And while there are men that have abused HCG, I don't think it happens very often that a guy can take 500IUs of HCG and not have his Testes back in action pretty quickly.

 

[nwiron]

Great^^. I have never once said I was recovered. I said I am attempting a recovery for 3yrs of exo testosterone. I am more concerned with being able to maintain some sort of fertility rather than 100% recover completely without any meds whatsoever. I have mentioned this three times in three pages….one answer for each page

NW

 

[discohornet]

Great^^. I have never once said I was recovered. I said I am attempting a recovery for 3yrs of exo testosterone. I am more concerned with being able to maintain some sort of fertility rather than 100% recover completely without any meds whatsoever. I have mentioned this three times in three pages….one answer for each page

NW

That's fine. I just saw a thread on here entitled, "Recovery after 3 years of HRT" and thought I'd find out how you were getting on with the business of being recovered. I am always interested in hearing about people's success in recovering from years of steroid use, because it can be a very difficult venture.

Then I noticed you really aren't recovered and thought I would point that out.

Anyways, carry on. And yes, as the other posters said, it's really not that difficult to impregnate someone while even in the middle of a cycle. Our balls are quite the beasts...

 

[Swifto]

Swifto- I'm saying without a baseline we don't really know 100% how to classify. No 500 isn't hypo but if his numbers have gone up or down relative to his baseline numbers (which we don't know) then we could know more. And swifts you are one of this boards experts, into opinion, on hormones so if I am way off base or not stating it properly please correct me. I just know there are a ton of people throwing numbers around on here and they don't know their natural levels.

OP- please don't think I am not supporting your statement and results because I am I just know i have seen people throw out these numbers before and everything is relative. You are on the right track.

Yes, we don't know how effective this process of HCG and Clomid have been due to not knowing his baselines values, but he's still at 500+.

However, the OP needs to come off (and I mean completely off) all PCT meds for 3-4 weeks, then get BW done again. I'm pretty sure its going to be less, but postulating.

The T levels are not solely down to HCG though (which is great) as LH and FSH are not that bad.

I'd stop with the HCG and continue Clomid/Tamox therapy for 3-4 weeks, then come off it ALL, wait 4 weeks and get BW done.

Either way, these numbers are impressive to me. Some testicular functions has been restored on not much HCG.

Also...

HCG has a refractory peroid of 72 hours (approx). So after injection T levels spike in a matter of hours, then fall slowly, after 2 days or so, T levels spike again MORE than the first spike. This is why HCG should not be used more than 2-3 times weekly IMO. You'll also see this stated by endo's.

 

[nwiron]

Yes, we don't know how effective this process of HCG and Clomid have been due to not knowing his baselines values, but he's still at 500+.

However, the OP needs to come off (and I mean completely off) all PCT meds for 3-4 weeks, then get BW done again. I'm pretty sure its going to be less, but postulating.

The T levels are not solely down to HCG though (which is great) as LH and FSH are not that bad.

I'd stop with the HCG and continue Clomid/Tamox therapy for 3-4 weeks, then come off it ALL, wait 4 weeks and get BW done.

Either way, these numbers are impressive to me. Some testicular functions has been restored on not much HCG.

Also...

HCG has a refractory peroid of 72 hours (approx). So after injection T levels spike in a matter of hours, then fall slowly, after 2 days or so, T levels spike again MORE than the first spike. This is why HCG should not be used more than 2-3 times weekly IMO. You'll also see this stated by endo's.

Thanks for the feedback swift. You've been around a long time. I remember you on S.com back in the day so it's good to see a familiar face. I am thinking of 12.5mgs clomid and maybe adex at .25 2xs wk. Do you think I should increase that clomid dosage? I have seen great results with minimal doses in others. Are you saying that HCG spikes twice? I have not heard that before, it's very interesting. I always thought it was a "peak and drift away" kind of thing. Can you explain a little more?

NW

 

[Swifto]

Thanks for the feedback swift. You've been around a long time. I remember you on S.com back in the day so it's good to see a familiar face. I am thinking of 12.5mgs clomid and maybe adex at .25 2xs wk. Do you think I should increase that clomid dosage? I have seen great results with minimal doses in others. Are you saying that HCG spikes twice? I have not heard that before, it's very interesting. I always thought it was a "peak and drift away" kind of thing. Can you explain a little more?

NW

Yes, thats me (but no more).

I'd go with Clomid 25mg/ED (its still a small dosage) and some Adex as you stated. Come off the HCG.

Regarding HCG, peaks are 2 hours and 72 hours. Here's on on rats, but its the same with humans. Don't have access to my old database of studies right now.

Acute responses of Leydig cells to hCG: evidence for early hypertrophy of Leydig cells.
Acute responses of Leydig cells to hCG: ... [Mol Cell Endocrinol. 1984] - PubMed - NCBI

Smaller dosages are better, even daily split up than one large dose:

Differential effect of single high dose and divided small dose administration of human chorionic gonadotropin on Leydig cell steroidogenic desensitization.
Differential effect of single high d... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984] - PubMed - NCBI

More information on HCG - HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) | Steroidal.com

 

[nwiron]

Wow, that is great stuff Swifto thanks for the input! I need to find some pharm grade clomid asap, not a fan of suspended anything UG or RG.

NW

 

[nwiron]

So it's been a month since I started this thread and a few months off of TRT. After this thread I took 200iu of HCG and then dropped it completely. I am now on 12.5mgs clomid eod and .25mgs adex 2xs week. I am going in for BW today and should have results by tomorrow. I have been feeling a little sluggish and anxious the past couple days so I am curious to see where I am at. Erections are fine, not great, but good. Orgasms are better than they have been in over 3 years. Switched from US pharm grade adex/research grade clomid to all Euro pharm grade ancillaries. For those interested, stay tuned.

NW

 

[muscle96ss]

Great^^. I have never once said I was recovered. I said I am attempting a recovery for 3yrs of exo testosterone. I am more concerned with being able to maintain some sort of fertility rather than 100% recover completely without any meds whatsoever. I have mentioned this three times in three pages….one answer for each page

NW

If I am understanding you, your main objective is to be able to have kids. If that is so then you will find plenty of stories here of people who conceived during some pretty heavy cycles. In fact that is what happened with me for both my kids. For me, I attribute it to the Clomid; I use to take it during cycles. Before that; back in the early 90's and once again in the late 90's I tried to get my system running again without any AAS and was unable; my T never came back up to a normal level.

 

[cormudgen]

Keeping my eye On this thrad.

I know you have net some of your goals by getting test back up with support if HCG/clomid. At some point are you trying/hoping to have test in normal range after completely dropping those also?

 

[nwiron]

I will try. I am not too confident that my body will be ok w/out the support of some meds. I mostly want to know that I can have kids and come off without feeling like shit and it looks like this will be possible. Here is my BW a month from the start of this thread:

Total T: 599 (348-1197)
LH: 3.6 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 2.7 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol 38.1 (7.6-42.6) ***To high because of clomid?? That's a jump of almost 20 points. I have kept the adex the same, dropped HCG, and added the clomid. I didn't expect this but could be the reason for my fatigue.

My bun, AST and ALT are also still high and out of range. What is this from? Ideas? I'm also researching with PP LR3. I did 80mcgs at 730am and took the BW around 11am.

Glucose serum: 49 (65-99)

No doubt that the IGF is good. I had fruit and oatmeal a couple hours prior to the test.

Can anyone shed some light on these findings? Should I investigate the AST/ALT as well??

I take zinc, potassium, fish oil, vitC, 6iu gh 3xs wk, 40-100mcgs lr3 4xs week.

Thanks!

NW

 

[muscle96ss]

I will try. I am not too confident that my body will be ok w/out the support of some meds. I mostly want to know that I can have kids and come off without feeling like shit and it looks like this will be possible. Here is my BW a month from the start of this thread:

Total T: 599 (348-1197)
LH: 3.6 (1.7-8.6)
FSH: 2.7 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol 38.1 (7.6-42.6) ***To high because of clomid?? That's a jump of almost 20 points. I have kept the adex the same, dropped HCG, and added the clomid. I didn't expect this but could be the reason for my fatigue.

My bun, AST and ALT are also still high and out of range. What is this from? Ideas? I'm also researching with PP LR3. I did 80mcgs at 730am and took the BW around 11am.

Glucose serum: 49 (65-99)

No doubt that the IGF is good. I had fruit and oatmeal a couple hours prior to the test.

Can anyone shed some light on these findings? Should I investigate the AST/ALT as well??

I take zinc, potassium, fish oil, vitC, 6iu gh 3xs wk, 40-100mcgs lr3 4xs week.

Thanks!

NW

That blood glucose in dangerously low.

 

[nwiron]

Also, what do you guys think about adding more adex to low estro? I was thinking .25 MWF. I also may go back on testosterone until I want to have kids. Can't really decide, but at least on test, I know exactly where my E levels are and they stay pretty manageable. I had no idea clomid would raise it that high, esp more than HCG, even with adex....

NW

 

[nwiron]

Upon further investigation, because my Creatinine levels are n range, and a few others, the elevated Bun/AST/ALT is nothing to worry about. Apparently, working out and constantly breaking down muscle can cause this. Considering they are just out of range, I'm not going to worry about it.

I just took 1mg of Adex to try and bring my estro down. Not sure what to do at this point....go back on TRT...or stay on low dose clomid/adex....or try adex only...or come off completely.

NW

 

[nwiron]

That blood glucose in dangerously low.

I am surprised the LR3 is dropping it that much. I'm going to get a meter.

NW

 

[mp5navy187]

Keep us Posted bro. Ive been cruising for a little over a year or about a year with various cycles added... Ive always kept my cycles low in the 500 mg ranges... Yes I want kids one day, but its not really a main option for me im only 26, work out alot and have a rough labor job since on test my energy work performance and school performance have been amazing... Gonna come off soon tho and run hcg then pct it... Just to see where im at to see im able maintain normal test levels. Navy out :headbang: