Recovery after 3yrs of TRTUpdate

Ehren · Nov 25, 2013

As to the E2 being high, Testicular Aromatase is raising estrogen a bit. Which is good and bad. It means that your Testes are producing Test (good) and some is being aromatized "in-house" down there.

Not much can be done about this until you stop using the Clomid and it clears. I've seen a study that says AI's inhibit testicular aromatase, while real world experience with BBers says, not so much.

After dropping Clomid eventually, I'd stay on the AI for a while to inhibit any negative feedback on the pituitary from the slightly raised estrogen.

nwiron · Nov 25, 2013

Ehren said:
As to the E2 being high, Testicular Aromatase is raising estrogen a bit. Which is good and bad. It means that your Testes are producing Test (good) and some is being aromatized "in-house" down there.

Not much can be done about this until you stop using the Clomid and it clears. I've seen a study that says AI's inhibit testicular aromatase, while real world experience with BBers says, not so much.

After dropping Clomid eventually, I'd stay on the AI for a while to inhibit any negative feedback on the pituitary from the slightly raised estrogen.

I took 1mg of adex just because I was concerned. That is great advice and I appreciate you responding in detail!

NW

Ox-Sandra-Loan · Nov 26, 2013

Thanks for posting this. I did something somewhat similar, but I was blasting and cruising (mostly blasting) for 1.5 years...including Deca 800mg/week for the 4 months prior to coming off everything.
I have copies of all my bloodwork (and sperm counts), except for the hormone panel of my last test, but the following is mostly off the top of my head:
My sperm count was 0.7 million/mL on the first test (off everything for about 6 weeks)...with normal being 20million/mL. FSH and LH were pretty much 0.
The doctor put me on a traditional chinese medicine (I live in China right now) which tasted like crap, and apparently included ground worms...but thats besides the point.
I got him to switch me to tamoxifen (I asked for clomid, he suggested tamox instead) it was about 100 times cheaper than the traditional stuff.
I also self-medicated with exemestane, 10mg/day for the first two months.
E2 was in low-normal range, as was prolactin, progesterone was high-normal.
Testosterone was of course very low.
Over the next few months, FSH came back fairly quickly, LH was somewhat slower, and T followed the LH. All others remained in normal range. Sperm count gradually rose, but even when FSH get to normal range, it takes 3 months to grow and mature sperm cells, so there was some lag there.
My most recent test (3 months ago...about 5 months after stopping) had testosterone low normal, but LH was still below normal (wasn't too sure why LH would be low and test normal...), and sperm count was around half of normal (around 10 million/mL)...sex drive was fairly low during this entire time, but had been gradually improving over the duration.
Anyways, I haven't been back for a follow up since, because our goal has been achieved, and my wife is pregnant...and I am back on a moderate dose cycle, with no plans to go for 18 months this time.

It is not my intention to hijack this thread or anything like that, I just thought you might be interested in a similar story.
Again, thanks for posting, and best wishes for your continued progress.

Edit: I should also add, I am 40 years old

nwiron · Nov 26, 2013

Thanks for that. When you were in low normal range and 10mill sperm were you still taking tamox? If so what were the doses?

NW

Ox-Sandra-Loan · Nov 26, 2013

nwiron said:
Thanks for that. When you were in low normal range and 10mill sperm were you still taking tamox? If so what were the doses?

NW

Yes, I was. 10mg/day.

Incognito1 · Nov 26, 2013

Hey Nwiron, I feel your stress and pain buddy.

I too have had hormonal issues over the years. Worst part is I haven't ever gone crazy on gear either, very moderate doses (under 1 gram per week) at max 2 courses per year for about 7 years. My last test prior to HRT was under 300.
If your primary goal is to become fertile or produce enough sperm to have a child I would recommend that you consistently get your sperm count and quality inspected.
I stopped everything for about 8 months. Did PCT and still had issues. At this stage I looked to a fertility doctor who tested my hormones and sperm levels, everything was low. Worst part was my sperm was almost non existent (estimated less that 500 per ml) and to make it worse they were 100% non motile, which meant they don't swim.
By finding out this information they basically advised me that even if my sperm levels were to increase chances are they would still all be non motile.
The positive from this is I had enough sperm to extract to successfully complete IVF and knowing the issues that I had, I didn't waste unnecessary time trying to recover and produce naturally.
Prior to being prescribed HRT I also tested and froze some sperm just I case I decide to have another child.

I wish you well trying to have a child mate.

Want2win · Nov 29, 2013

Great read. I've been on Hrt for about 8 yrs. however I'm 45. I do add to my Hrt with high amounts, instead of 100mg. I'll do 400 week. I do use hcg about every 2 month just I case and clomid.
Only time I was ever tested was for Hrt and I was 250. Never had sperm count checked
This is all very interesting to read