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The carnivore diet

goback2013

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I’ve been thinking about doing it bc of the supposed energy and health stuff. I’m big enough and with a newborn get little sleep which kicks off a whole lot of psych stuff which it supposedly helps, I’ve done entire preps on red meats and sweet potatoes and felt amazing. Now when I say meat I always mean lean wild game and on the beef side top round, sirloin (trimmed), 90/10 etc. I don’t believe that going all meat and eating T-bone steaks, ribs, and stuff like bacon is good for you no matter how much weight you lose. I will say that when I’m on all venison or elk I feel even better than beef. Thing is hunting can be expensive but it doesn’t have to be especially if you’re not chasing antlers. If you go out and fill all your tags and even have the deer butchered ($100) it comes out to somewhere around $2 a lb this is including cost of gas, tags, ammunition everything but the rifle or bow but one would own those I even if they didn’t hunt I don’t know many people who don’t have multiple forms of home defense and most put food on the table too. If I do it I’ll post what’s kept me back mostly is I’ve heard a lot of people who actually love the diet say there’s a period of 1-2 weeks of bad diarrhea/lose stool from the body adjusting to it. Personally I don’t see how but most of us eat meat 5 times a day already so this may be something more prone to regular people.
Diarrhea may be due to lack of fiber keeping you backed up. Or acting as a filler. Combined with the sudden increase of fat.
I know I was going non-stop for a few weeks when I get carnivore.
May also be due to all that backed up junk no longer being held in place by daily resupply of fiber. So it all comes out. We may all have 3 weeks worth of shit just backed up and being held in by our daily fiber intake. Just my thoughts.
 

Muay Thai

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Diarrhea may be due to lack of fiber keeping you backed up. Or acting as a filler. Combined with the sudden increase of fat.
I know I was going non-stop for a few weeks when I get carnivore.
May also be due to all that backed up junk no longer being held in place by daily resupply of fiber. So it all comes out. We may all have 3 weeks worth of shit just backed up and being held in by our daily fiber intake. Just my thoughts.

I think the fiber thing is overplayed, dr Huberman says fermented FOODS over fiber.
according to the acidity or alkaline, you will populate your gut with the appropriate microbiota
providing the right kind of bacteria to colonize -hence implementation probiotics . adjust gut microbiome. ingest fermented foods. they greatly impact the inflammatory biomarkers. and in my experiences these work way better than fiber!
when you do this you greatly decrease inflammatory cytokines....
Interleukin 6 also causes inflammation. creating the best condition/environment in our gut is the goal.
fermented foods = autoimmune markers go down, inflammatory markers go down. subsequently immune system, wound healing, and cognitive abilities greatly increase
 

qbkilla

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I think the fact that leptin is a complicated hormone and not a simple more is better or less is better made the masses loose interest in it quickly. Nuanced "it depends" type of things usually fall out of favor quickly as people want easy to do easy to understand with me/against me type of shit lol.

This is an excerpt from Dsades write up for his product Epitome. It does a good job of showing how "it depends" really applies to leptin.

Leptin Overview
I want to start with a short and sweet Leptin overview, which will be new to some and a refresher to others. Leptin is a hormone that structurally belongs to the cytokine family made primarily in white adipose tissue (WAT), but it is also produced in other areas of the body in lesser amounts, like brown adipose tissue (BAT) and skeletal muscle, among others. It’s primary function, particularly for our purposes, is controlling hunger and satiety. When we have optimal Leptin levels in conjunction with optimal Leptin sensitivity, as our energy stores fill up, the “fed state” is signaled and we are no longer driven to eat. When this system becomes dysfunctional, like in obesity or calorie restriction, everything goes haywire and we end up with strong hunger signals even when the body doesn’t need calories.

Like most hormones and adipokines, and pretty much anything responsible for any amount of signaling in the body, we function best when it is at an “optimal” level, we don’t want it super high or super low.

A number of things control the synthesis, release, and sensitivity to Leptin, but there are two main factors to be concerned with. These are fat stores (cell size and number), and energy balance. The important thing to remember is that a calorie deficit causes Leptin to drop, and a calorie surplus causes Leptin to rise. Part of the reason why people tend to hit a wall after extended dieting is this drop in Leptin levels. One of the common ways people deal with this is by implementing regular cheat days where they eat a bunch of carbs and a huge calorie surplus. However, this method is not without drawbacks, and with proper supplementation (Epitome), this becomes unnecessary.

In obesity, we typically see elevated Leptin, which causes reduced sensitivity. The constant over-supply of Leptin causes the receptors to downregulate. So we’ve got plenty of this stuff around, but the body has no idea what to do with it. As an example, let’s say every morning you go into Starbucks to buy coffee. But every time you pull your wallet out, it’s just full of Jordanian Dinar instead of dollar bills. You’ve got like, 100,000 Dinar in there, which is possibly enough to buy the whole coffee shop, but the Baristas have no idea what to do with it so you leave sad and confused with no coffee.

When an individual is obese, or has an endomorphic phenotype (who have similar biochemistry to the obese), and they lose weight, they will experience a major drop in Leptin levels, typically below that optimal window. So take Person A, who is naturally a fairly lean 180lbs, and Person B, who is an endomorph that dieted down from 215 to 180, and Person B is going to have lower Leptin levels and messed up neuroendocrine signaling giving him a strong desire to overeat and get back to that original weight. Even the emotional response to eating is highly controlled by Leptin in the brain, so Person B is getting stronger physiological signals (hunger pangs/fatigue), as well as psychological signals (specific cravings, increased reward response to food). Also chalk up the reduced resting energy expenditure from low Leptin, and you’ve got a brutal combination.
Good read it is consistent with what Lyle and Avant labs used to post. My question would be, does his supplement actually increase leptin, has it been shown to? If so is it effective?

I wonder if there are any studies showing if carb ups or refeeds increase fat loss on low carb diets when calories are equal over time.
 

marssel

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Diarrhea may be due to lack of fiber keeping you backed up. Or acting as a filler. Combined with the sudden increase of fat.
I know I was going non-stop for a few weeks when I get carnivore.
May also be due to all that backed up junk no longer being held in place by daily resupply of fiber. So it all comes out. We may all have 3 weeks worth of shit just backed up and being held in by our daily fiber intake. Just my thoughts.
Yea I always heard that “there’s pounds of backed up shit in your intestines comments going back to the 90s”. One year at a big show I was still a MW and my work out partner was a SHW and obviously going to win and did and he said the same thing and before the show day before we took the laxative you take before a colonoscopy and I shit out what I had eaten in say the previous 36-48 hours and nothing else. If I eat corn at 8 pm I’m shitting corn by noon. So I don’t think that applies to us, now I have had clients, usually female, that come into the gym and we change their diet up and they invariably say I’m pooping everyday and I’m like just once? They say we’ll I usually poop once a week, this convo has happened dozens of times. So yes to unhealthy people I hear that but the guys I heard talking about it were actually UFC guys and they eat similar to us as far as frequency and quality. My guess was the opposite that maybe having fiber gives you bulk that holds it together and if you switch to lean meat there’s not enough actual waste to form solid stool. Though for me that still seems odd unless as you said you start eating carnivore with a bunch of fatty meat.
 

Cerberus777

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There's a few reasons you get loose bowels. One if you're not used to eating so much fat. You may need a week to adjust to make enough bile. Second is the loss of water typically found in the gut due to hormones, fiber, inflammation or the amount of water needs to push stool through with all the carbs and fiber.
 

heavyhitter

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There's a few reasons you get loose bowels. One if you're not used to eating so much fat. You may need a week to adjust to make enough bile. Second is the loss of water typically found in the gut due to hormones, fiber, inflammation or the amount of water needs to push stool through with all the carbs and fiber.
Also, most guys who go keto take in drastically less sodium because of the changed style of eating, and can cause stool issues due to electrolyte imbalance . Salting food appropriately, getting in potassium you’re losing for your carb sources can help
 

Cerberus777

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Also, most guys who go keto take in drastically less sodium because of the changed style of eating, and can cause stool issues due to electrolyte imbalance . Salting food appropriately, getting in potassium you’re losing for your carb sources can help
True something needs to hold water in the body so you don't dehydrated.
 

Elvia1023

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It could be extremely useful for a variety of things but I would never follow it permanently. It's great for a reset in a sense but I would always incorporate more foods into your diet later on. Just make sure you are using good quality meat and taking in adequate electrolytes and water. See how you get on and go from there. After approx 2-3 months I would add in some fruits and vegetables/greens. Later and depending on your goals you may want to add some higher carb foods/days back in and I think this would be highly advisable for anyone trying to put on new muscle.
 

jeroendebleser

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This is close to what I do. Trying to cut back on carbs after seeing how many go low carb here

Currently

Meal 1 pre. ... turkey+ fruit
Meal 2 post. Lean beef + fruit
Meal 3 omelette
Meal 4 casien pudding (cottage cheese, almond milk, egg life wraps thrown in)

Off days take out the fruit, add some fat in there. Considering making the last meal lean ground beef but that pudding fills me up until mid day the next day so works well for my intermittent fasting.
It's not going to give you magical new results bro. It seems like you are looking for the bodybuilding-elixir still (I like you but you've been doing this since the first post I read from you), it just doesn't exist 😃
 

Tomgrass

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It could be extremely useful for a variety of things but I would never follow it permanently. It's great for a reset in a sense but I would always incorporate more foods into your diet later on. Just make sure you are using good quality meat and taking in adequate electrolytes and water. See how you get on and go from there. After approx 2-3 months I would add in some fruits and vegetables/greens. Later and depending on your goals you may want to add some higher carb foods/days back in and I think this would be highly advisable for anyone trying to put on new muscle.
After few months on keto I think i regressed physique wise. Just weight goes down but also some muscles gone as well. I need to get back on carbs , being honest I dont feel like bodybuilder Kinda all the time no pump just feel flat and no amount of salt fat electrolytes can fix it. Weird feeling of emptyness. I also never really experienced this amazing cognitive uplift or great energy rather most of the time kinda ok but nothing great just in best case very mediocre. The best i ever looked and felt was when I had 200 carbs 250 protein 50-70 fats.
 

Tomgrass

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I think that tkd could solve the problem around 50 grams carbs postworkout and back to keto after. But straight keto like almost zero carbs does not work for me.
 

Cerberus777

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I think that tkd could solve the problem around 50 grams carbs postworkout and back to keto after. But straight keto like almost zero carbs does not work for me.

How often do you work out?
 

Cerberus777

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5-6 x week depend how work allow usually one bodypart per day Jordan Petters style two sets one to failure
With that amount of training I'd try 50gr carbs pre/intra if you still want to try and be keto throughout. But my question is what fat sources are you using? And how long have you been keto. You tend to fill back up in three-four months.
 

Tomgrass

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I have eggs coconut oil mct walnuts cod liver oil cheeses natural pb and butter or ghee to frying meats - been keto from april. Also when I load some carbs i feel amazing even boost in confidence- i know weird
 

Cerberus777

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I have eggs coconut oil mct walnuts cod liver oil cheeses natural pb and butter or ghee to frying meats - been keto from april. Also when I load some carbs i feel amazing even boost in confidence- i know weird
During winter when I try and put on muscle I do 100gr carbs pre/intra/post this keeps fat gain minimal in a calorie surplus. You might like that.
 

qbkilla

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5-6 x week depend how work allow usually one bodypart per day Jordan Petters style two sets one to failure
Did you change your training style to this? I thought I saw a thread a while ago from you advocating more pump style high volume not to failure... short rest periods.

I've been slowly reducing carbs and keeping calories the same myself. Currently 200 on training days, 0 off days. I actually feel a bit fuller and stronger than on high carbs and minimal fat. Maybe 200 is a good number for some of us. 100 pre 100 post, all fruit. I get about 10g sodium and 10g potassium per day according to MFP but very little iron. Got some beef liver today
 

Black Beard

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in retrospect, after more research - it is more than likely it was the ssri addiction that caused his health crisis, NOT the carnivore diet. I retract my statement
You can see how horrible he looked after starting carnivore diet. He started to look like a ghoul. Poor complexion, sunken in eyes, and generally unwell look.
 

Muay Thai

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You can see how horrible he looked after starting carnivore diet. He started to look like a ghoul. Poor complexion, sunken in eyes, and generally unwell look.
bro i thought i was the only one that felt this way. all the zealots for the carnivore diet ( I agree with elvias ideals on it) and all of a sudden JBP daughter is a guru

PS i just saw JBP at Casino for his Tour he is on right now. He left SD and went directly to TX to podcast with rogan
 

Tomgrass

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It could be extremely useful for a variety of things but I would never follow it permanently. It's great for a reset in a sense but I would always incorporate more foods into your diet later on. Just make sure you are using good quality meat and taking in adequate electrolytes and water. See how you get on and go from there. After approx 2-3 months I would add in some fruits and vegetables/greens. Later and depending on your goals you may want to add some higher carb foods/days back in and I think this would be highly advisable for anyone trying to put on new muscle.
This is exactly what I am doing now , low carb with carbs coming only from veg and fruits. I was not so long time ago on keto but it stopped working- loosing muscles getting fatter. Leptin , thyroid this seems to be most affected on keto, also I was feeling like something was missing. Kinda empty feelings inside me. No amount of salts or electrolytes could fix that. I think that 100 carbs should be enough to prevent all those problems but also will be very similar in results to keto. With this approach I dont need to worry when I want a piece of cheesecake- simply I will calculate it into my daily carb intake. You can eat your cake and have your cake 😉
 

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