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When would you consider starting steroids.??

FrancisK

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My life, but with IP and the risking the shotty BD floating around.

Francis hit it on the head though. But when I was younger nothing could have stopped me, I knew the consequences and the risks associated with usage from my folks preaching, the boards solidified this, I still didn’t care!! I just reached a goal my parents didn’t think I’d reach, then juiced.

Hind site, not worth losing hair, having shit relationships, inconsistent ED, bp issues, self image issues, anxiety, and everything else that we get to enjoy.

If he wants to spend his life figuring out the best way to combat whatever side he’s gonna experience (most likely with more drugs), let him do it. I know that’s the choice I made, hell, that’s what most of us here did. But start with test, he may find it’s not for him if he’s not a (good) responder.


My first 4-5 years using I had ZERO regrets, in fact I think I wrote in more than one thread here on PM that using AAS was one of the best decisions I had ever made. I would have vouched for AAS use to anyone and laughed at someone who told me otherwise.

Well the last few years since have sucked and totally changed that. The gear doesn’t do nearly as much as it used to even the strongest compounds at much higher doses and then the side effects are that much worse for it. The past few years I feel like all I’ve been doing is tip toeing around issues caused from AAS use doing my best to figure what I can and can’t use and what actually works and what doesn’t instead of seeing results from what I’m using.

I knew that day would come eventually where the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze anymore but shit I didn’t expect it so soon, maybe when I was nearing my 50’s not in my mid 30’s.

You know, thinking back on it like this I think it coincided with my decision to stop cycling and just blast and cruise instead the last couple years or so. Maybe that’s a topic for another thread....
 

Cito33189

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I got on for good when I was 33. I have zero regrets other than not starting younger. It was one of the best decisions I've made.

I didn't know there were so many steroid users who regret starting in the first place.
People regret using them because they realize how night and day the difference is. Coming off fucks with your head. You look like a beast on gear. Its addicting. How can you not want to take something that makes you look fucking awesome.
 

JohnBoston

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tons of good responses. I think today its prevalent enough that when someone decides to go with it, they go with it. if he wants to push his physique further.

good test levels, but where will they be in 10 yrs, without using anyway.

and i dont think 2 or 3 attempts at some compounds will destroy him, or his natty test.
 

m314

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People regret using them because they realize how night and day the difference is. Coming off fucks with your head. You look like a beast on gear. Its addicting. How can you not want to take something that makes you look fucking awesome.

Why would people want to come off once they're on? I've been on test year round for 12 years now. I knew from the start that it was a lifetime commitment. I'm happy about having high testosterone levels for the rest of my life instead of having to deal with the slow decline that comes with aging.

I could understand someone regretting not having kids and having fertility problems from gear. I never wanted kids, though. I really don't want them now at 45.
 

FrancisK

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Why would people want to come off once they're on? I've been on test year round for 12 years now. I knew from the start that it was a lifetime commitment. I'm happy about having high testosterone levels for the rest of my life instead of having to deal with the slow decline that comes with aging.

I could understand someone regretting not having kids and having fertility problems from gear. I never wanted kids, though. I really don't want them now at 45.

The discussion isn’t about a TRT dose of test and if it were it would be silly to even entertain if the guys test is in the 700’s naturally already.
 

Elvia1023

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I never recommend gear to people and usually the complete opposite. However if someone loves the gym and is serious and not an idiot and they have a decent base then sure. It's a awkward subject because you don't want them to go alone or get advice from some idiot in the gym who doesn't have a clue. At the same time these people are asking for advice but usually a hook up as well so it could mean assisting them obtaining it as well.

I understand all the views in this thread. Although from the info you posted he sounds like an ideal candidate for gear imo. When I first started I knew of many users but they were all just abusers with no knowledge at all and I went completely on my own from the start. I ordered online and just went from steroid profiles. My 1st cycle was tren a and dbol :eek::D Not high doses and only 6 weeks but obviously I read the profiles and they sounded the best. So I started that way and totally clueless and I would like to think I came out fine and have learnt a lot over the years. This guy could be taught all the important stuff from day 1 and he is 28 so is a grown man so he should go for it. When guys say 28 is too young because they started at 45 I have to laugh. 28 is not young at all and a perfect time if you want to generalize about suitable ages.

Now and this is the most important part he needs to be made aware of all the side effects and how if he wants to run cycles he will likely have to run trt for the rest of his life. That will put off many people but most are totally unaware of that when they first start and think they can just do a pct and be fine every time. I also agree he could start with MK-677 as it won't effect sex hormones but will greatly assist him adding size. Again even for that he needs to be made aware of all the potential side effects. I wouldn't bother with sarm's as most have the same side effects as gear and will suppress his natural test anyway. I would personally take full advantage of his 1st cycle so definitely not high but I wouldn't be doing just 200-250mg test per week which gets recommended a lot on here for 1st timers.
 

FrancisK

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I never recommend gear to people and usually the complete opposite. However if someone loves the gym and is serious and not an idiot and they have a decent base then sure. It's a awkward subject because you don't want them to go alone or get advice from some idiot in the gym who doesn't have a clue. At the same time these people are asking for advice but usually a hook up as well so it could mean assisting them obtaining it as well.

I understand all the views in this thread. Although from the info you posted he sounds like an ideal candidate for gear imo. When I first started I knew of many users but they were all just abusers with no knowledge at all and I went completely on my own from the start. I ordered online and just went from steroid profiles. My 1st cycle was tren a and dbol :eek::D Not high doses and only 6 weeks but obviously I read the profiles and they sounded the best. So I started that way and totally clueless and I would like to think I came out fine and have learnt a lot over the years. This guy could be taught all the important stuff from day 1 and he is 28 so is a grown man so he should go for it. When guys say 28 is too young because they started at 45 I have to laugh. 28 is not young at all and a perfect time if you want to generalize about suitable ages.

Now and this is the most important part he needs to be made aware of all the side effects and how if he wants to run cycles he will likely have to run trt for the rest of his life. That will put off many people but most are totally unaware of that when they first start and think they can just do a pct and be fine every time. I also agree he could start with MK-677 as it won't effect sex hormones but will greatly assist him adding size. Again even for that he needs to be made aware of all the potential side effects. I wouldn't bother with sarm's as most have the same side effects as gear and will suppress his natural test anyway. I would personally take full advantage of his 1st cycle so definitely not high but I wouldn't be doing just 200-250mg test per week which gets recommended a lot on here for 1st timers.

That’s the big one right there, tell them that in most cases it leads to you having to jab yourself with a needle for the rest of your life and you’ll never fully recover if you decide to stop. Tell any prospective user that who isn’t some old man with 0 test anyway and see how quickly they decline.
 

m314

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The discussion isn’t about a TRT dose of test and if it were it would be silly to even entertain if the guys test is in the 700’s naturally already.

I meant TRT between cycles. There's no reason to come off and suffer through PCT. Blasting and cruising is greatly preferable over letting nature take its course, getting weaker with age as hormone levels decline.

People generally get over their fear of needles once they try it. I'll take injecting myself every other week with test u over getting progressively weaker and less virile into my 50s, 60s, and beyond. Most men my age (45) look like shit even if they try to stay fit. Exogenous hormones are the answer.
 

FrancisK

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I meant TRT between cycles. There's no reason to come off and suffer through PCT. Blasting and cruising is greatly preferable over letting nature take its course, getting weaker with age as hormone levels decline.

People generally get over their fear of needles once they try it. I'll take injecting myself every other week with test u over getting progressively weaker and less virile into my 50s, 60s, and beyond. Most men my age (45) look like shit even if they try to stay fit. Exogenous hormones are the answer.


I don't disagree at all but the guy we're talking about is 28 with already high natural test levels and is natural, none of that applies to him yet at all. The points you are making apply to a completely different discussion, I don't think anybody would argue at all that TRT for somebody with low levels is beneficial.
 

lookslikesausage

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i gave them up for good only because A. i didn't want to be beholden to them forever at such a young age (23) and B. coming off was hell for me mentally (and physically). Coming off was just so awful; losing size and strength i busted my ass off for, the mental anguish, depression, etc. It was bad for me even with a proper PCT. Worse than most, if not all of my friends. I decided i couldn't keep going through it. In fact, I decided i never wanted to experience it ever again and the only way to avoid it was to stay on or stay off.

I always joke with my friends that the next time will be the last time (if ever go back on i'm staying on for the rest of my life including TRT). My last time at 23 probably took 6-8 months for me to recover & feel normal again. I nearing 40 now, have good test levels, never have issues with sex life, have managed to keep most of my hair, and even though i'm a pip squeak compared to most of the monsters on these forums, i manage to maintain a "fit-looking" physique. Nothing anyone here would envy but nothing to be ashamed of and i also am active in sports. Even competed in a powerlifting meet a few years back and am not ashamed of my numbers (as a natty).

The thing is, which many don't realize who haven't gotten into the game, is that it's a committment. I've found that it's rare to do a cycle "here and there". Let's face it, most guys who start stay in it until they're forced to step away. It's not a one off for most guys and the more serious you are about the lifestyle the more likely you are to be using gear for many years. The nice thing about not being on gear is that your physique doesn't change drastically in a matter of weeks like it can when you get off (less "highs and lows"). Very few people can keep a look anything remotely close to a geared look without gear. Maybe a select few can with TRT, but even then, you're beholden to the drugs, just at a "maintenance/trt" level so you're never truly off the hook. Some are ok with it and some not. It's a choice most will be faced with if they stay in the game long enough and should be prepared to make.

Oh and there's one other thing i forgot to mention, training in the gym on shit vs. off feels like if you were comparing driving a high end European sports car vs a Ford Pinto. That's not to say you can't train hard without gear but your body just will not feel or respond the same way to training. Yet one other thing that might be hard for some to adjust to. There isn't a day that goes by that i don't think about them, though. I have zero regrets about doing them and loved every minute of it with the exception of coming off. Like most things, it's a trade-off. Either be prepared to "give some back" OR if you're not then you'd better be prepared to stay on for the majority of your training life.

Just my take...
 

finephysique

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I think if he loves training, is in good shape and enjoying the gym he should just not bother he will have a better life overall for not starting them as it is a slippery slope to upping dosages then blast and cruise and just always jabbing yourself or else coming off.

That said if he is going to take them at least he has someone advising him and not just letting him go crazy and keep upping the doses every week or other things newbies do.
 

showstopper83

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A younger guy at my gym has been training steady for 13 year (he's 28 now) the last 2 years we trained together quite a few times and he definitely trains with intensity , I've helped him rearrange his diet some to help keep making progress and over the years he has gotten a bit leaner and added a good bit of size but he's seemed to have plateaued the last 8-9 months making very little gains and hes asking if I think it's time to try some sort of anabolics.
His current test levels are 718 taken 2 weeks ago so definitely not low. I'm kind of apprehensive about suggesting anything that may suppress his natural levels and I'm wonder is some of the SARMs might not be a decent rout to take to get a bit more gain before starting actual steroids.

I know if I could go back I'd definitely have waited longer and tried to maximize my natural potential before starting steroids.

Has he ventured into creatine/L-Arginine/TMG(betaine)/citrulline malate and other ATP/cell volumizere? Things like Arachidonic-Acid (yes, it works), HMB-Free Acid, L-Carnitine?

Because if he hasn't, all these things will give him a boost where he's at.

What are his goals and is he just gonna do it anyways? If his goal is to look his absolute possible best... I think we know what the answer is.

He's 28, you are only young for so long, my thing is why waste so many years you can enjoy something just to try to squeeze blood out of a turnip?

If he's all about it and knows the risks involved and thinks he can do it responsibly, start him off with 8 weeks of Test P 300-450mg with an oral of choice depending on what he's trying to do with a strict hcg/PCT protocol.
 

Bio

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I'm 51 and back in the day my friends and I would laugh when someone would say, "I just want to do a cycle." I would tell them, "It's never just one cycle!" FrancisK I'm sorry you've had such a terrible experience with all of this. You should seek a qualified Endocrinologist and get yourself off of everything.

At 51 I feel good, I don't have any sexual issues, male pattern baldness runs in my family anyway but I got a hair transplant, don't mind jabbing myself, etc. We talk a lot about how things in this lifestyle are very individual including side effects. Some take 200mg of Test and their BP shoots up. When I was younger, it was 3cc's of Test E or C in one cheek and 3cc's of Deca in the other. Then later in the week it was another 3cc's of Test. Orals in the beginning and then I stopped using them. I followed this protocol for a long time. I've always done a pyramid cycle and I've taken time off throughout the years.

Anyway, as far as Gunsmith's protege, 28 is not too young...in my opinion. This guy sounds like he has the right genetic component for size. As long as Gunsmith is honest with him about things and oversees his progress, he's in good hands.
 

LK3

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My first 4-5 years using I had ZERO regrets, in fact I think I wrote in more than one thread here on PM that using AAS was one of the best decisions I had ever made. I would have vouched for AAS use to anyone and laughed at someone who told me otherwise.

Well the last few years since have sucked and totally changed that. The gear doesn’t do nearly as much as it used to even the strongest compounds at much higher doses and then the side effects are that much worse for it. The past few years I feel like all I’ve been doing is tip toeing around issues caused from AAS use doing my best to figure what I can and can’t use and what actually works and what doesn’t instead of seeing results from what I’m using.

I knew that day would come eventually where the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze anymore but shit I didn’t expect it so soon, maybe when I was nearing my 50’s not in my mid 30’s.

You know, thinking back on it like this I think it coincided with my decision to stop cycling and just blast and cruise instead the last couple years or so. Maybe that’s a topic for another thread....

in my mid 30s i found i had diminishing results and did my biggest cycles with little to no sides. once i crossed 36 i started to get more sensitive which only continued. now early 40s i have never been as sensitive as now. maybe it will get better with time.

as to the original question, if this guy isnt gona look at it as a life long commitment and as a responsibility then dont do it. anyone who has a fear of needles or injecting or makes a face at the thought of pinning ed for life, take up golf or pingpong. in the last 15 years i have injected myself more then i have brushed my teeth. if isnt ok with that, just dont bother.
 

FrancisK

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in my mid 30s i found i had diminishing results and did my biggest cycles with little to no sides. once i crossed 36 i started to get more sensitive which only continued. now early 40s i have never been as sensitive as now. maybe it will get better with time.

as to the original question, if this guy isnt gona look at it as a life long commitment and as a responsibility then dont do it. anyone who has a fear of needles or injecting or makes a face at the thought of pinning ed for life, take up golf or pingpong. in the last 15 years i have injected myself more then i have brushed my teeth. if isnt ok with that, just dont bother.


I hope so because that experience exactly mirrors mine so far!
 

Sides

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in my mid 30s i found i had diminishing results and did my biggest cycles with little to no sides. once i crossed 36 i started to get more sensitive which only continued. now early 40s i have never been as sensitive as now. maybe it will get better with time.

as to the original question, if this guy isnt gona look at it as a life long commitment and as a responsibility then dont do it. anyone who has a fear of needles or injecting or makes a face at the thought of pinning ed for life, take up golf or pingpong. in the last 15 years i have injected myself more then i have brushed my teeth. if isnt ok with that, just dont bother.
I hope so because that experience exactly mirrors mine so far!

Nothing gets better with time except maybe wine, and even then sometimes it turns to vinegar.

My perspective has completely changed over the last couple of years, and I have to say FrancisK hit it on the head above. If you had asked me at 48 or even 50, I would have had mostly all positive experiences to relate. But now at 52, none of the old answers are working anymore. I get more side effects than gains, and I feel like all I keep doing is trying to jam the same square pegs back into the same round holes.

I still don't regret the journey, and I had many great experiences on steroids. But now every day brings something else going wrong, and I'm just too stubborn to quit. Tried adjusting doses, adjusting compounds...but sadly the real truth is I'm just too old to get the kind of results from steroids that I want anymore.

But I can't quit, not ever. And so every day I tweak and tinker and try to make things a little better, instead of a little worse. That's the reality of getting older on steroids.

If the OP's friend is alright knowing that his future life may be like that, then he can go ahead and start steroids. But he needs to be aware of all the risks, and the fact that it's a lifetime commitment. Like every other addiction, everyone thinks it won't happen to them...until it does.
 

brutus69

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i wish id never touched em. in my top 4 biggest regrets of my life. sure i gained 50 pounds, but my hair fell out, my face aged terribly, tore multiple tendons and now im almost back to where i started, only uglier and worse off than if i'd never done em.
but who cares about their future when u want big muscles now. right?
 

thethinker48

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i wish id never touched em. in my top 4 biggest regrets of my life. sure i gained 50 pounds, but my hair fell out, my face aged terribly, tore multiple tendons and now im almost back to where i started, only uglier and worse off than if i'd never done em.
but who cares about their future when u want big muscles now. right?

The only consolation I can give is that the hair probably would've gone anyway. Steroids just accelerated the process
 

USMuscle9403

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Has this young man made a decision yet? If there's any hesitation, the answer is always no.
 

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