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Why are more people not doing extremely high protein diets?

m87r

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Matt Jansen has stated he likes 2 g/lean lbs.
 

pickapeck

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Couple things about calories in food. Bomb calorimetry is how calories in food are determined. A bomb calorimeter measures the amount of heat generated by heating a substance until it is ash and no longer produces heat. A piece of wood has calories by bomb calorimetry. Calories in food have nothing to do with biochemistry. A calorie is not a calorie or we could eat like termites. About protein; Protein is thermogenic. Quoting from Preddon-Jones et al., The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Volume 87, Issue 5, May 2008, Pages 1558S–1561S, There are 3 areas that contribute:

"1) increased satiety—protein generally increases satiety to a greater extent than carbohydrate or fat and may facilitate a reduction in energy consumption under ad libitum dietary conditions; 2) increased thermogenesis—higher-protein diets are associated with increased thermogenesis, which also influences satiety and augments energy expenditure (in the longer term, increased thermogenesis contributes to the relatively low-energy efficiency of protein); and 3) maintenance or accretion of fat-free mass—in some individuals, a moderately higher protein diet may provide a simulatory effect on muscle protein anabolism, favoring the retention of lean muscle mass while improving metabolic profile."

Geeking out asside, any time I, or any of my BBing friends, especially in prep, have upped protein into the zone Luki describes I see leaning and increased or at least maintenance of muscle mass. It works. It's expensive. It's hard to put down the pie hole for some people.
 

qbkilla

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Couple things about calories in food. Bomb calorimetry is how calories in food are determined. A bomb calorimeter measures the amount of heat generated by heating a substance until it is ash and no longer produces heat. A piece of wood has calories by bomb calorimetry. Calories in food have nothing to do with biochemistry. A calorie is not a calorie or we could eat like termites. About protein; Protein is thermogenic. Quoting from Preddon-Jones et al., The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Volume 87, Issue 5, May 2008, Pages 1558S–1561S, There are 3 areas that contribute:

"1) increased satiety—protein generally increases satiety to a greater extent than carbohydrate or fat and may facilitate a reduction in energy consumption under ad libitum dietary conditions; 2) increased thermogenesis—higher-protein diets are associated with increased thermogenesis, which also influences satiety and augments energy expenditure (in the longer term, increased thermogenesis contributes to the relatively low-energy efficiency of protein); and 3) maintenance or accretion of fat-free mass—in some individuals, a moderately higher protein diet may provide a simulatory effect on muscle protein anabolism, favoring the retention of lean muscle mass while improving metabolic profile."

Geeking out asside, any time I, or any of my BBing friends, especially in prep, have upped protein into the zone Luki describes I see leaning and increased or at least maintenance of muscle mass. It works. It's expensive. It's hard to put down the pie hole for some people.
Very good post.

I'm much smaller than most 185 lean, but I also get about 340-300 per day towards my 3100 daily intake. That's a maintenance of 17x bw in calories which I think is pretty good considering I do low volume training, am not active, and feel like I have a slower metabolism. I always assumed that a high protein intake allows me to eat a good amount, not be hungry, and maintain weight.
 

BLang

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Looking at studies, there seems to be almost zero adverse outcomes a surplus of protein.


I just found this study today and it’s super interesting. People partaking in resistance training all lost fat AND gained muscle in a calorie surplus. Almost in a linear manner, the more they are protein the better. Even in the 800 calorie surplus group in the charts at the bottom, they lost fat.

Why are there people pushing more moderate protein diets or higher carb?

The biggest issue is that these studies are mostly using huge surpluses, far beyond what any natural trainer should ever practically use.

If you have to have a huge surplus, yes, higher protein intake will be beneficial. But if you look at the few studies using smaller (~300-400) cal surpluses this effect of higher protein is diminished.

Pair that with all of the LBM studies which is where you see people pushing the ".62g/lb" and ".8" numbers, which is equally as flawed.

But, you'll see plenty of guys here, especially the monsters, pushing huge, huge protein numbers.
 

KillerStack

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This pro says at his peak he was drinking 1kg of whey protein a day. So at least 800 grams of protein a day just from shakes. If we are to believe him but when you saw him he was quite the animal at like 330lbs off season so guys didn't question it mostly lol. And he did pick up jugs at a pace equal to about 1kg a day from my friends supplement shop. He did do like around 10 grams of gear a week. It's things like this that always made me try to eat say 400 grams and couldn't even do that consitently.
 

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jaxino

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Actually i have seen some coaches that advise to eat 1g/kg of proteins from complete sources + 30g EAA daily to get our protein requirement covered 100%.
 

jeroendebleser

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This pro says at his peak he was drinking 1kg of whey protein a day. So at least 800 grams of protein a day just from shakes. If we are to believe him but when you saw him he was quite the animal at like 330lbs off season so guys didn't question it mostly lol. And he did pick up jugs at a pace equal to about 1kg a day from my friends supplement shop. He did do like around 10 grams of gear a week. It's things like this that always made me try to eat say 400 grams and couldn't even do that consitently.
Yeah that guy was huuuuggeeee but unfortunately for him he was also very tall, no?

You're basically fucked as far as bodybuilding is concerned then.
 

thedorkyd1

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All these low protein dudes don't grow, and they keep size at best

if you want to grow, the fastest way to do this is high proteins, if you already have the size you can eat much less and keep what you already have
Best coach in our country has top athletes on roughly 1g / lb of protein. 6ft1 140kg athlete and lean
 

pesty4077

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Very good post.

I'm much smaller than most 185 lean, but I also get about 340-300 per day towards my 3100 daily intake. That's a maintenance of 17x bw in calories which I think is pretty good considering I do low volume training, am not active, and feel like I have a slower metabolism. I always assumed that a high protein intake allows me to eat a good amount, not be hungry, and maintain weight.
Curious, how tall are you?
 

m87r

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This pro says at his peak he was drinking 1kg of whey protein a day. So at least 800 grams of protein a day just from shakes. If we are to believe him but when you saw him he was quite the animal at like 330lbs off season so guys didn't question it mostly lol. And he did pick up jugs at a pace equal to about 1kg a day from my friends supplement shop. He did do like around 10 grams of gear a week. It's things like this that always made me try to eat say 400 grams and couldn't even do that consitently.
He also trained 7 days a week and often two times a day. He over did everything except rest.
 

Swifto

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Swifto

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Converted to fat.

Yeah, I didn't think so.



"

Excess Protein Intake and Fat Storage

Question: I have done a lot of study in diets and nutrition but to this day I have not been able to get any concrete evidence on what happens with excess protein in the body and I’m hoping you can help.

To make things simple, lets take a theoretical diet consisting of 5000 calories of pure protein for a 60kg, 175cm female.

Many people claim that excess protein will get wasted while others say that all excess calories eventually end up being stored as fat.

I have done my own research on the breakdown of protein into amino acids and I understood it as: some of the amino acids are wasted while others will go through the cycle of conversion and will still be used by the body for energy.

Answer: Ok, first things first. The example given above is absurdly non-physiological. The satiating power of protein would make such a high protein consumption impossible. That is, 5000 calories is 1250 grams of pure protein. It can’t be done. Beyond that, while the biochemical pathways for the conversion of protein to fat do exist in humans, the likelihood of it ever happening in any but the most absurdly non-physiological circumstances are effectively nil.

Let me put this in perspective. Despite a lot of claims to the contrary, the actual conversion of carbohydrate to fat in humans under normal dietary conditions is small approaching insignificant.

Make no mistake, the conversion of carbs to fat (a process called de-novo lipogenesis or DNL) can happen but the requirements for it to happen significantly are fairly rare in humans under most conditions (to discuss this in detail would require a full article but Hellerstein has written extensively about it).

At least one of those is when daily carbohydrate intake is just massive, fulfilling over 100% of the daily maintenance energy requirements. And only then when muscle glycogen is full. For an average sized male you’re looking at 700-900 grams of carbohydrate daily for multiple days running.

Which means that the odds of protein being converted to fat in any quantitatively meaningful fashion is simply not going to happen. Certain amino acids are processed to a great degree in the liver (as I discuss in The Protein Book) and this can produce glucose, ketones and a few other things. But triglycerides (the storage form of “fat”) isn’t one of them.

I imagine that if protein were going to be converted to fat, it would first have to be converted to glucose and only if the amount produced were then in excess of daily maintenance requirements would there be conversion to fat. But as noted above, this simply isn’t going to happen under any even reasonably normal circumstances. No human could eat enough protein on a daily basis for it to occur.

What will happen is that amino acid oxidation (burning for energy) will go up somewhat although, as discussed in that article, it’s a slow process and isn’t complete.

So, as noted above, while the pathway exists for protein to be stored as fat, and folks will continue to claim that “excess protein just turns to fat”, it’s really just not going to happen under any sort of real-world situation. Certainly we can dream up odd theoretical situations where it might but those won’t apply to 99.9% of real-world situations."
 

dale338

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My main protein sources are:
Elk meat
Salmon
Dark meat chicken
Beef and beef liver (grass fed organic only)
isolated Whey

It’s not just protein itself, I believe the type of protein you consume makes a difference. I eat dark meat chicken and salmon for the fats keeping everything lubricated.

I noticed the biggest difference in the pump I get at the gym when I eat red meat. Not as much with chicken and fish but I believe in mixing it up.

I only eat carbs in any kind of excess pre workout. Never between. Right now I stay as lean as I’m comfortable with. Lots of veggies, greens etc.

I’ll eat a seven grain cereal with whipped in egg whites, almond milk, a little honey, and usually some berries right before I hit the gym.
 

Sixfoottwo

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A few years ago I talked to Eddie Moyzan (a very friendly and nice guy in general) and he advised me to increase my protein to 800g a day - he told me that at the peak of his career he ate 1000g of protein a day
I know bodybuilding isn't a healthy sport but is it even possible to keep kidneys in an "oke" state at that amount of protein?
 

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