AAS that cause ZERO anxiety

[11111]

I really appreciate the kind thoughts and I'll see what I can do when I have the energy. Feeling tired and ready for bed now.

If I've learned one lesson the hard way, as it relates to this thread, I wish I had kept things simple.

My first cycle back in 1992 was 500mg Sustanon a week for ten weeks. Simple, one variable changed. I ate everything that wasn't nailed down, trained like a madman, and gained 40lbs of muscle. My next cycles were also simple, generally 400mg Deca per week or 500mg test per week. I was generally happy with the results, and when I wasn't, I generally knew which variable to blame or change.

Things got more complicated the deeper I got into the game, especially when I was competing, but have remained so today. I've tried almost every anabolic steroid out there, but mostly rely on test and DHT compounds. I use various stimulants to get up in the morning and for workouts, the extended use of which in combination with overtraining I believe has given me some kind of adrenal fatigue. Took ECA and T-3 for years to stay lean, and now am suffering from symptoms of hypothyroidism. I need Valium to go to bed at night. Cialis, Viagra, Melanotan, and even PGE-1/Trimix to get an erection. I use a wide variety of vitamins, minerals, and other supplements. A handful of pills and tablets every day, too many pills, too many injections, and too many variables.

The problem with too many variables is that when I feel down and depressed, or up and anxious, good or bad, which ones do I blame or give credit to? When you're practicing polypharmacy, it's hard to single out the effects of any one specific substance, or fully understand it's interactions with everything else you're taking. I can feel really up in the morning, crash at midafternoon, and be back up again after dinner, or the reverse. My life is a roller coaster ride of emotions these days, especially being the father of a six-month-old baby and going low on sleep, and trying to make up for the lack of sleep with stimulants.

So I wish I had kept things simpler, taken one substance at a time, and then at least I would know better which ones work better for me, and which ones to blame when things go wrong, as they seem to be going wrong these days.

please do!

 

[11111]

Focusing everything around proper sleep sounds ideal, but hard to do as a 52-year-old father with a 6-month-old baby, and severe sleep apnea that I've let go untreated way too long. I've had a 19-20" neck and big traps all my adult life (used to deadlift 600lbs), and of course taking Valium to get to sleep doesn't help with the sleep apnea or getting quality sleep either. Also makes me groggy when I wake up in the morning, which always makes me reach for caffeine and other stimulants to wake myself up.

But of course, if I cut out the Valium then I would have to deal with the benzodiazepine withdrawals, which I am dreading, so I keep taking the Valium but limit it to 10mg before bed only. When I have anxiety during the day, I just have to deal with it. I am reluctant to add another med and yet another variable into the mix.

I've been approved for a CPAP machine and hopefully that will be on the way soon, so hopefully that will help with sleep.

sides, if you're anything like pretty much everybody i know who has sleep apnea and went many years without using a cpap (before they were diagnosed with apnea), using that cpap will change your life!

 

[Sides]

sides, if you're anything like pretty much everybody i know who has sleep apnea and went many years without using a cpap (before they were diagnosed with apnea), using that cpap will change your life!

I certainly hope so. I wake up in the morning feeling groggy and tired no matter how much sleep I get, and my wife tells me how often I stop breathing in my sleep and she has to hit me to get me to wake up and start breathing again (at least, that's the excuse she uses for hitting me and waking me up at night LOL.) I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the Valium as well, but just once I would like to wake up in the morning feeling refreshed and not groggy and lethargic again.

 

[Sides]

I don’t know your doctor, I don’t know if she put you on the Valium and I know this is just a blanket assumption but any female doctor I’ve ever consulted had no interest in actually solving the issue and just wanted to throw pills at me.

Don’t be afraid to consult a different doctor, it’s not a sexist thing it’s simply that a female doctor by nature would have difficulty relating to male issues and of course a doctor will never say to you “oh sorry I don’t know try another doc” they will always just say “try these pills”....

You aren't kidding. My doctor's office actually called me today, because it is time to renew the prescription for the Valium. All of a sudden, now she wants to switch me over to Lorazepam (Ativan), a shorter-acting benzodiazepine, because she heard from my dentist that I had a bad reaction to the Lidocaine they used when I had a teeth cleaning last Monday (I felt light-headed and woozy). So all of a sudden she wants to switch me over to Lorazepam, which if she even bothered to look it up, has exactly the same bad interaction with Lidocaine.

I have an appointment with her this Friday to try to get all of this sorted out, but I know the real answer is that I desperately need a new doctor who knows what he or she is doing.

 

[FrancisK]

You aren't kidding. My doctor's office actually called me today, because it is time to renew the prescription for the Valium. All of a sudden, now she wants to switch me over to Lorazepam (Ativan), a shorter-acting benzodiazepine, because she heard from my dentist that I had a bad reaction to the Lidocaine they used when I had a teeth cleaning last Monday (I felt light-headed and woozy). So all of a sudden she wants to switch me over to Lorazepam, which if she even bothered to look it up, has exactly the same bad interaction with Lidocaine.

I have an appointment with her this Friday to try to get all of this sorted out, but I know the real answer is that I desperately need a new doctor who knows what he or she is doing.

Bro ask some friends or family, find that doctor that interrogates you just to prescribe Motrin. That’s what you need, not some pill mill bitch that thinks the next pill is the answer to everything to justify the 5 different pills she uses a day....

 

[danieltx]

I certainly hope so. I wake up in the morning feeling groggy and tired no matter how much sleep I get, and my wife tells me how often I stop breathing in my sleep and she has to hit me to get me to wake up and start breathing again (at least, that's the excuse she uses for hitting me and waking me up at night LOL.) I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the Valium as well, but just once I would like to wake up in the morning feeling refreshed and not groggy and lethargic again.

I got a CPAP in October 2018. It instantly fixed my OSA, helped me get the best sleep I had in years, and the improved sleep and recovery noticeably accelerated my progress with bodybuilding in all areas - strength, adding size, etc.

Get a CPAP machine, get it set properly, get a mask you like, and get used to wearing it. That's the hardest part - people don't take the time to get used to it. Start wearing it while watching TV, on the computer, etc. Then wear it for 30-60 minutes at night. Then a few hours.

Eventually, you'll be able to sleep with it all night - and when you do, you'll wake up actually feeling refreshed and having energy right out of bed. You'll wish you had done it years earlier.

 

[Sides]

Bro ask some friends or family, find that doctor that interrogates you just to prescribe Motrin. That’s what you need, not some pill mill bitch that thinks the next pill is the answer to everything to justify the 5 different pills she uses a day....

I used to like the pill mill bitch though...just because she prescribed me pills LOL. But sadly that approach works less and less well for me as I get older. Used to be that everything worked for me, more or less. Now nothing works. The root of the problem, then, is not so much the pills as something broken in me that I haven't fixed yet.

 

[Sides]

I got a CPAP in October 2018. It instantly fixed my OSA, helped me get the best sleep I had in years, and the improved sleep and recovery noticeably accelerated my progress with bodybuilding in all areas - strength, adding size, etc.

Get a CPAP machine, get it set properly, get a mask you like, and get used to wearing it. That's the hardest part - people don't take the time to get used to it. Start wearing it while watching TV, on the computer, etc. Then wear it for 30-60 minutes at night. Then a few hours.

Eventually, you'll be able to sleep with it all night - and when you do, you'll wake up actually feeling refreshed and having energy right out of bed. You'll wish you had done it years earlier.

Thanks, that's exactly what I want to hear, and what I'm hoping for. I've put this off for way too long, and I'm hoping the CPAP will help me get that extra quality sleep that I've been needing. I know people who have the CPAP machines and don't use them because they can't get used to the mask, but all I want is a chance to give it a try.

 

[FrancisK]

I used to like the pill mill bitch though...just because she prescribed me pills LOL. But sadly that approach works less and less well for me as I get older. Used to be that everything worked for me, more or less. Now nothing works. The root of the problem, then, is not so much the pills as something broken in me that I haven't fixed yet.

Oh everyone loves their pill wench everyone knows one! Well until there is an actual problem and the pills are just making it worse....

Sounds like you know full well what the deal is brother, good luck with it hope you get the real help you need!

 

[jeroendebleser]

I used to like the pill mill bitch though...just because she prescribed me pills LOL. But sadly that approach works less and less well for me as I get older. Used to be that everything worked for me, more or less. Now nothing works. The root of the problem, then, is not so much the pills as something broken in me that I haven't fixed yet.

True but the question remains whether it's actually fixable (or were you just born that way?) I'm a bit of a pessimist so I lean more towards the 'some people are just fucked from birth'-route and will need more pills than others. This is not to discourage you to seek out other methods by the way (as I may always be too pessimistic or just flat out wrong and they could certainly help), just my two cents

 

[jeroendebleser]

Oh everyone loves their pill wench everyone knows one! Well until there is an actual problem and the pills are just making it worse....

Sounds like you know full well what the deal is brother, good luck with it hope you get the real help you need!

Well going to a fullblown pill mill is never a good idea, I agree with you on that. There should be a certain balance. He/she shouldn't deny you of pills you may really need but he/she also shouldn't just prescribe them without further thought. I am lucky in that I have a GP with which I've found that balance.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Fit2Serve: as already has been said, I also think (low dose) Test is your best bet here.

 

[Sides]

True but the question remains whether it's actually fixable (or were you just born that way?) I'm a bit of a pessimist so I lean more towards the 'some people are just fucked from birth'-route and will need more pills than others. This is not to discourage you to seek out other methods by the way (as I may always be too pessimistic or just flat out wrong and they could certainly help), just my two cents

Oh, I fully agree with you that "some people are just fucked from birth." I had a fairly horrific childhood and have always had some degree of OCD, depression, and anxiety. My parents had their issues, and my brother and sister have both been on anti-depressants and other related meds all their adult lives. My sister, for example, is on a hefty dose of sertraline (Zoloft), 450mg of bupropion (Wellbutrin), 30mg of Adderall, blood pressure and other meds just to remain in some sort of balance. She is also well over 400lbs and is eating herself into an early grave, has a CPAP but doesn't wear it, etc.

By contrast, I have always been able to self-medicate with 400-600mg test and other steroids, stimulants, T-3, and in the last 5 years Valium to sleep at night, and I've always been the highest-functioning one of the family. But now that approach doesn't seem to be working for me anymore. Leaving me to flail around as I try to figure out where to go from here. I had to adjust my protocols when I was trying to get my wife pregnant, and although I succeeded, I've never been able to get back to a real equilibrium or feeling great since then.

I'm a big believer in the philosophy of Lemmy Kilmister from Motorhead: "Born to Lose, Live to Win." But other than the birth of my baby daughter, I haven't had much winning going on lately.

 

[Stewie]

Interesting, thanks. Gotta read up on this, never heard of this proposed mechanism before. Mag Threonate is pretty expensive but I think I'll try this again. Have you tried CCBs yourself?

No I haven't used a CCB for this purpose or it's antihypertensive properties. I have suggested it's use to a couple of individuals whom were still hypertensive with the isolated use of an ARB while running nandrolone or tren. Otherwise, no I personally haven't had the need to use a CCB.

LOL He forces you to learn. I've looked up more shit after reading Stewie's posts than reading most papers in the NEJM.

I appreciate the observation. I do initiate from time-to-time by conveying a thought-provoking arrangement of my commentary. Understandably, some individuals don't pick-up on this, which is totally fine. Others may not find interest of expansion of their minds, which is totally fine too

I know how valuable your posts are, just wish they came with a translation to layman’s terms sometimes lol

In the context of the aforementioned commentary I mentioned, we could view this as a non-genomic action of AAS by way of increasing intracellular Ca2+ (calcium ions).

Imagine you and I are in a room with 100 other people working doing our jobs (picture us as neighboring cells, some of us become second messengers). I'm working right next to you and everyone else is carrying on doing their little deeds, you decide to throw a match in a garbage can, no body sees you doing this, as the fire grows, you calmly say to me -"there's a fire." I, in turn shout out -"there's a fire in the building!!" I take off running trying finish what I'm doing as I'm headed towards the door, 50 of the others in the room reactions are the same as mine, 25 other people slowly make their way out of the room, the other 25 people stand around acting like nothing is going on. Notice how all the people (cells) didn't respond in the same manner? When neighboring cells talk to each other (cell-cell communication/signaling) this is referred to as paraCRINE signaling. In the end of all that gibberish, you provoked me and others to be a second messenger to neighboring people (cells).


We'll consider you as the first messenger by telling me there was a fire, myself and the others are the second messengers. We act as an intermediate to either increases or lessen the activation of an action, for simplicity, a receptor.


Besides calcium ions (Ca2+), there are several other types of second messengers, i.e., cAMP and cGMP to name a few.


As with paracrine cell-cell signaling, there are other types of -"CRINE" cell-cell communication i.e., autocrine, endocrine and gap junctions. They respond accordingly or inappropriately depending on the initial introduction of a substance, i.e., drug, toxin, molecule, hormone, ect.

This is a very simplified explanation. There are other more in-depth reading materials if you wanna indulge in this further. https://courses.lumenlearning.com/wm-biology1/chapter/reading-types-of-signals/


Here's a somewhat simplified explanation of genomic and non-genomic actions. It's not specific to the commentary I aforementioned, although if you're curious you can easily find how AAS interact with different ions, including Ca2+.

Summary of the key differences between genomic and nongenomic mechanisms of steroid hormone action. The classic genomic pathway is characterized by an increase in protein synthesis, which mediates the in vivo response to the hormone some hours after hormone-receptor binding. In contrast, the nongenomic pathway is characterized by rapid second messenger activation, which leads to acute (within seconds) cellular responses. The precise nature of the receptor proteins that initiate the nongenomic pathway is unclear.

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiologyonline.2001.16.4.174

 

[sub7percent]

No I haven't used a CCB for this purpose or it's antihypertensive properties. I have suggested it's use to a couple of individuals whom were still hypertensive with the isolated use of an ARB while running nandrolone or tren. Otherwise, no I personally haven't had the need to use a CCB.


I appreciate the observation. I do initiate from time-to-time by conveying a thought-provoking arrangement of my commentary. Understandably, some individuals don't pick-up on this, which is totally fine. Others may not find interest of expansion of their minds, which is totally fine too


In the context of the aforementioned commentary I mentioned, we could view this as a non-genomic action of AAS by way of increasing intracellular Ca2+ (calcium ions).

Imagine you and I are in a room with 100 other people working doing our jobs (picture us as neighboring cells, some of us become second messengers). I'm working right next to you and everyone else is carrying on doing their little deeds, you decide to throw a match in a garbage can, no body sees you doing this, as the fire grows, you calmly say to me -"there's a fire." I, in turn shout out -"there's a fire in the building!!" I take off running trying finish what I'm doing as I'm headed towards the door, 50 of the others in the room reactions are the same as mine, 25 other people slowly make their way out of the room, the other 25 people stand around acting like nothing is going on. Notice how all the people (cells) didn't respond in the same manner? When neighboring cells talk to each other (cell-cell communication/signaling) this is referred to as paraCRINE signaling. In the end of all that gibberish, you provoked me and others to be a second messenger to neighboring people (cells).


We'll consider you as the first messenger by telling me there was a fire, myself and the others are the second messengers. We act as an intermediate to either increases or lessen the activation of an action, for simplicity, a receptor.


Besides calcium ions (Ca2+), there are several other types of second messengers, i.e., cAMP and cGMP to name a few.


As with paracrine cell-cell signaling, there are other types of -"CRINE" cell-cell communication i.e., autocrine, endocrine and gap junctions. They respond accordingly or inappropriately depending on the initial introduction of a substance, i.e., drug, toxin, molecule, hormone, ect.

This is a very simplified explanation. There are other more in-depth reading materials if you wanna indulge in this further. https://courses.lumenlearning.com/wm-biology1/chapter/reading-types-of-signals/


Here's a somewhat simplified explanation of genomic and non-genomic actions. It's not specific to the commentary I aforementioned, although if you're curious you can easily find how AAS interact with different ions, including Ca2+.


https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiologyonline.2001.16.4.174

thanks Stewie for taking the time out to explain. This is helpful.

 

[beast405]

I sure do. I use 100mg, 15mg melatonin, and 2 tbsp zquil
Trazodone is so cheap with insurance

Trazodone gives me a horrible groggy feeling every time I use to take it

 

[ShadyMuscle]

I've been running
150mg Tren with 150mg deca 100 a week. No crazy anxiety or anything like that. Normally I get bad anxiety on tren and deca, but since dropping the dose like John Jewett suggests everything has been running smoothly

 

[nicocujo]

Off topic from the OP, but I am using a CPAP now (3 months) and take (1) ambien, (1) trazadone, and (1) unisom 90 minutes before I go to bed.
I usually wake up about 3 hours later to piss and another 3 hours later to piss again.

 

[Golden]

Last year I went pretty high on deca and had a really bad case of anxiety but didn’t associate the 2. I started NPP a few weeks back and noticed my anxiety kicking off again. I stopped it over a week ago but only by reading this read have I clicked that nandrolone and my anxiety are linked.

 

[grizzly978]

I would get really bad tren and eq anxiety… it’s strange because I use nicotine and copious amounts of caffeine with high pressure all day and am fine, but those compounds always drove me to a dread feeling.

Test, primo, masteron, and var have given me zero anxiety and helped my mood a great deal.