1 Year Heart Update

[j2048b]

Good to know. I've been taking 40mg daily ever since I read this article.

http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2015/3/Best-Drug-To-Treat-Hypertension/Page-01

Ok so if u are a bit on the hypertension side, would this cause any effects one should be concerned about?

Also is it strictly scripted or can i buy this myself??


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[nothuman]

Ok so if u are a bit on the hypertension side, would this cause any effects one should be concerned about?

Also is it strictly scripted or can i buy this myself??


Sent from my IpP using tapatrash

Not to my knowledge and Alldaychemist.com has it

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I realize everything I asked is a bit cluttered so I'll put any remaining questions here:

1. As soon as I get time later this week I'm going to start looking into the relationship between cardio and EF, pycnogenol and EF, and humanofort and EF/heart health. Fulvic acid and Coreg apparently too. Anything else I should be looking for? I want to bring as many valid studies to my doctor as possible

2. Related to the above, Dante posted a couple studies. I will of course do my own research as soon as I can but if anyone else has studies on the above (or on increasing EF in general) that I can bring to my doctor let me know

3. I skipped my TRT dose last night and am going to wait until Friday to then begin 80mg/week. I wanted to do 100 but I think 80 might be smarter, and perhaps ED dosing so just 11-12mg ED (going to be hard to dose with my 200mg/ml test). What do you guys think of that plan?

4. Should I begin cardio asap or wait until the MRI?

5. Am I likely to get any additional benefits from adding cardio when I'm already doing intense weight training that includes higher rep work? I see that being different from say a 30-40min jog or bike ride, but people are recommending HIIT....I would think am I getting almost identical benefits from high rep (20-30) rep weight-training. Just curious if there is evidence backing up additional improvements.

6. Lastly, is anyone aware of the extent of heavy lifting I can do? I've never felt like I was going to pass out from upper body lifting, just squat and deadlift variations. Additionally I wonder if lower reps to non-failure would be the best option? For instance I think doing a few 4 rep sets with a 6RM could still be a good stimulus, whereas doing 10 reps with a 15RM I don't think would do as much....and I also feel like if I bench 1x300 with a 315 max my blood pressure would go up significantly less than repping out 15x225 to complete failure (even if if I went a bit shy of failure, it seems like the higher reps would keep building up the pressure).



Thanks to all for any additional input

 

[dougisbig]

I realize everything I asked is a bit cluttered so I'll put any remaining questions here:


3. I skipped my TRT dose last night and am going to wait until Friday to then begin 80mg/week. I wanted to do 100 but I think 80 might be smarter, and perhaps ED dosing so just 11-12mg ED (going to be hard to dose with my 200mg/ml test). What do you guys think of that plan?

Thanks to all for any additional input

I think you mentioned in one of your posts that you don't know if what your natural levels would be if you came off. Why not come off and try a PCT protocol and see where you are at? Yes, I know people have varying opinions of PCT but 2 guys I know personally who blasted and cruised for 2 years came off and did a low dose Clomid and DAA protocol and they got their levels back into the upper range. If you are going to be natty for life, it only seems logical to give this a try, IMO.

 

[nothuman]

I think you mentioned in one of your posts that you don't know if what your natural levels would be if you came off. Why not come off and try a PCT protocol and see where you are at? Yes, I know people have varying opinions of PCT but 2 guys I know personally who blasted and cruised for 2 years came off and did a low dose Clomid and DAA protocol and they got their levels back into the upper range. If you are going to be natty for life, it only seems logical to give this a try, IMO.

How is this going to help his ejection fraction?

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I think you mentioned in one of your posts that you don't know if what your natural levels would be if you came off. Why not come off and try a PCT protocol and see where you are at? Yes, I know people have varying opinions of PCT but 2 guys I know personally who blasted and cruised for 2 years came off and did a low dose Clomid and DAA protocol and they got their levels back into the upper range. If you are going to be natty for life, it only seems logical to give this a try, IMO.

Mostly because everyone I know of who has come completely off has pretty much lost any progress they made. Recently heard an interview with Shelby and Skip and they both said they can maintain a lot on TRT but if they come off completely they lose size dramatically. Even Maldorf has kept quite a bit of size on his TRT after a heart attack.

If it's the same health wise and I can just adjust my TRT to get the test levels that are optimal, then I would certainly prefer that.

Secondly, before ever touching gear I had my test measured twice and it was 450 and then 340. Now I've had higher results while "off" after starting cycling (500-650), but I imagine my PCT played a role there and got my Test levels temporarily higher "naturally" for a bit. I assume if I came off completely long term I would go back to that ~400 level at best, in which case I'd almost qualify for TRT anyway and likely would need it in 10 years or so as my levels naturally declined.

Lastly, due to the cortisol response from Crohn's, I think staying on it could be helpful
Testosterone therapy in men with Crohn's disease improves the clinical course of the disease: data from long-term observational registry study. - PubMed - NCBI
Administration of testosterone to elderly hypogonadal men with Crohn's disease improves their Crohn's Disease Activity Index: a pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Deleted member 106824]

How is this going to help his ejection fraction?

I was wondering this as well. At the same time, I have read a few other people say it can be a problem if one is only focusing on the number there....with the point being that finding the underlying cause is important. The fact that my dilation has increased from 60 to 63mm worries me as well, aside from just the ejection fraction, and I hope to be able to find the root cause of the problems here.

 

[dougisbig]

How is this going to help his ejection fraction?

It won't. I was just thinking he is a young guy so why not give it a try. In one of his threads I believed he mentioned having an issue with high estro as well so might knock out a couple of his issues at once.

 

[pumpkinhead]

Normal life

Pumped...yes when my cardiologist were saying people live perfectly normal lives, even with a lower EF...he did mean Lifespan.

I just saw you post that it dropped to 40%, I would do two things if I were you. Get a different echo, from a different person and see if its still 40%...sometimes the person can take it wrong. I know when I was at my biggest they always had to push super hard to get it to read properly.

second, if it does come back at 40%....if you can tolerate the Beta blockers, then I would take them. However, they do suck at letting you loose weight and getting your heart rate up when you do cardio. If its your attempt is to just lower BP, then try a ace inhibitor like lisinopril. Almost zero side effects and wont hurt you to stay lean. I take 5mg in the morning, and 5mg in the evening. I don't have high bp, but due to my aortic dissection and having a mechanical valve the doctors try to keep my bp as low as possible.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I just got off the phone with my cardiologist and he literally said "well you're not taking anything like those nitrous oxide powders are you?" and Dante just posted two studies showing how l-citrulline (which increases NO in the body) can help EF% :\ I understand my doctor being concerned about "random supplements" but it's also hard to fully trust someone who is ignorant on a large topic related to heart health (i.e. natural/supplemental methods).

He also told me cardio/exercise won't help my EF%...he said "you can do some cardio but don't exert yourself too much". I don't know if his recommendation is backed by any evidence. I really hope that recommendation is not for life but just a temporary measure. Can't imagine not ever being able to push myself again.

It won't. I was just thinking he is a young guy so why not give it a try. In one of his threads I believed he mentioned having an issue with high estro as well so might knock out a couple of his issues at once.

Well thank you for the suggestion, I am bringing my TRT down to 80mg for the time being (less than 2/3 what it was before) so my E2 should fall to around 30 if it's proportional.

At this point I guess I should be happy if I can even maintain my body with everything going on, obviously I need to put health first but no one like us wants to accept losing progress.

Pumped...yes when my cardiologist were saying people live perfectly normal lives, even with a lower EF...he did mean Lifespan.

I just saw you post that it dropped to 40%, I would do two things if I were you. Get a different echo, from a different person and see if its still 40%...sometimes the person can take it wrong. I know when I was at my biggest they always had to push super hard to get it to read properly.

second, if it does come back at 40%....if you can tolerate the Beta blockers, then I would take them. However, they do suck at letting you loose weight and getting your heart rate up when you do cardio. If its your attempt is to just lower BP, then try a ace inhibitor like lisinopril. Almost zero side effects and wont hurt you to stay lean. I take 5mg in the morning, and 5mg in the evening. I don't have high bp, but due to my aortic dissection and having a mechanical valve the doctors try to keep my bp as low as possible.

The MRI is scheduled for October 7th, so we'll see.

My blood pressure is typically around 110/70....last night I took it a few times (while stressed) and it was 108-117/65-68. Correct me if I'm wrong but I would assume going any lower than that wouldn't be beneficial? I've had other times, when doing more cardio, that I'm closer to 105-110/60-65. My rest heart rate is typically 45-65bpm.

 

[nothuman]

I just got off the phone with my cardiologist and he literally said "well you're not taking anything like those nitrous oxide powders are you?" and Dante just posted two studies showing how l-citrulline (which increases NO in the body) can help EF% :\ I understand my doctor being concerned about "random supplements" but it's also hard to fully trust someone who is ignorant on a large topic related to heart health (i.e. natural/supplemental methods).



He also told me cardio/exercise won't help my EF%...he said "you can do some cardio but don't exert yourself too much". I don't know if his recommendation is backed by any evidence. I really hope that recommendation is not for life but just a temporary measure. Can't imagine not ever being able to push myself again.







Well thank you for the suggestion, I am bringing my TRT down to 80mg for the time being (less than 2/3 what it was before) so my E2 should fall to around 30 if it's proportional.



At this point I guess I should be happy if I can even maintain my body with everything going on, obviously I need to put health first but no one like us wants to accept losing progress.







The MRI is scheduled for October 7th, so we'll see.



My blood pressure is typically around 110/70....last night I took it a few times (while stressed) and it was 108-117/65-68. Correct me if I'm wrong but I would assume going any lower than that wouldn't be beneficial? I've had other times, when doing more cardio, that I'm closer to 105-110/60-65. My rest heart rate is typically 45-65bpm.

Your bp and hr are excellent so bringing them down any farther wouldn't benefit, unless it's from another supplement that helps in other ways.

The problem with cardiologists is 99% of them don't know much about legal supplements, so you should absolutely not take his word as gospel, as you are more educated than he is when it comes to that topic. His recommendation of not exerting yourself with cardio seems silly too. From what it sounds like, he is talking out of his ass. You just have to be able to distinguish what he knows with what he doesn't know.

 

[pumpkinhead]

I just got off the phone with my cardiologist and he literally said "well you're not taking anything like those nitrous oxide powders are you?" and Dante just posted two studies showing how l-citrulline (which increases NO in the body) can help EF% :\ I understand my doctor being concerned about "random supplements" but it's also hard to fully trust someone who is ignorant on a large topic related to heart health (i.e. natural/supplemental methods).

He also told me cardio/exercise won't help my EF%...he said "you can do some cardio but don't exert yourself too much". I don't know if his recommendation is backed by any evidence. I really hope that recommendation is not for life but just a temporary measure. Can't imagine not ever being able to push myself again.


Well thank you for the suggestion, I am bringing my TRT down to 80mg for the time being (less than 2/3 what it was before) so my E2 should fall to around 30 if it's proportional.

At this point I guess I should be happy if I can even maintain my body with everything going on, obviously I need to put health first but no one like us wants to accept losing progress.



The MRI is scheduled for October 7th, so we'll see.

My blood pressure is typically around 110/70....last night I took it a few times (while stressed) and it was 108-117/65-68. Correct me if I'm wrong but I would assume going any lower than that wouldn't be beneficial? I've had other times, when doing more cardio, that I'm closer to 105-110/60-65. My rest heart rate is typically 45-65bpm.

I don't think going below that would help much... you can ask him as a precautionary measure to take small amount of bp med before working out would help?

IMO you can lift as heavy as you want. My heart was torn apart and put back together again. I got 2 opinions after the surgery (should have died),

Cardiologist -"you should become a marathon runner and don't touch any weights"

Surgeon (same guy who did the surgery and saw everything up close and personal) - "I put so many stiches in that heart, and you have a new valve..I don't think working out will hurt you one bit"

I guess with those answers you need to decide who's opinion you value more. the guy who fixed the heart and saw the heart (surgeon) or guy who just prescribes you pills (cardiologist).

 

[nothuman]

I don't think going below that would help much... you can ask him as a precautionary measure to take small amount of bp med before working out would help?

IMO you can lift as heavy as you want. My heart was torn apart and put back together again. I got 2 opinions after the surgery (should have died),

Cardiologist -"you should become a marathon runner and don't touch any weights"

Surgeon (same guy who did the surgery and saw everything up close and personal) - "I put so many stiches in that heart, and you have a new valve..I don't think working out will hurt you one bit"

I guess with those answers you need to decide who's opinion you value more. the guy who fixed the heart and saw the heart (surgeon) or guy who just prescribes you pills (cardiologist).

SAME exact thing with me since I had open heart for an aortic root enlargement. A cardiologist said not to lift heavy weights but the surgeon who did the surgery said it's fine as long as I breathe properly.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I definitely know more than he does on the topic of supplements and natural alternatives, it's just hard working with someone on only half of this...basically doing what he says with some things but secretely ignoring others, and at times there may be things he does know something and I wrongly think he's incorrect...I won't pretend to know everything or even much about cardiology (a few courses, but certainly no residency for it like him). For example he and the nurse practitioner mentioned possible thyroid issues causing an issue...maybe my past use of T3 was a factor (though again I haven't used more than 50mcg in years). I guess I need to feel it out and try to decipher when he is giving advice based on scientific evidence or just talking out of his ass.


I'm glad to hear what you guys are saying about being able to lift heavy. I do, however, want to make sure I am not just jumping at the first answer that agrees with my desires. Gotgame, for example, did suggest dropping the heavy lifting earlier in this thread. (Gotgame, if you read this, what is your scientific reasoning behind that suggestion?)

At the very least I'm going to drop heavy squats and deads for the time being, and consciously avoid using the valsalva maneuver.

Pumpkinhead, what you say about taking bp meds just before lifting is interesting. I've never heard of taking it that way, do they act so acutely? If I could have their effect in my system solely when I workout that seems like a reasonable option, assuming they didn't linger around for long afterwards.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Regarding the sleep apnea, I'm not sure if this is related, but my brother and girlfriend have mentioned that they can hear me breath deeply at times (while sitting next to me, not when I'm sleeping), and I notice that here and there as well.

I believe this is from when my nose was broken 3-4 years ago, they fixed it to some degree but never completely (still a bump on one side) and usually one side is 'clogged' to some degree and is harder to breathe through.

Main reason I'm mentioning it is perhaps, despite not being very heavy or having a thick neck, maybe that contributes to sleep apnea somehow? Just throwing out ideas. I think my mouth is somewhat open when sleeping most of the time anyway though.

 

[someday]

My blood pressure is typically around 110/70....last night I took it a few times (while stressed) and it was 108-117/65-68. Correct me if I'm wrong but I would assume going any lower than that wouldn't be beneficial? I've had other times, when doing more cardio, that I'm closer to 105-110/60-65. My rest heart rate is typically 45-65bpm.

Earlier in the thread you were lamenting about how you felt the supps you were taking weren't helping. Now I realize you probably meant just EF, but since we are talking heart health specifically, hard for me to look at those BP numbers while on and say that the supps you are using aren't doing anything! I'd kill for BP numbers like that off everything let alone on.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Earlier in the thread you were lamenting about how you felt the supps you were taking weren't helping. Now I realize you probably meant just EF, but since we are talking heart health specifically, hard for me to look at those BP numbers while on and say that the supps you are using aren't doing anything! I'd kill for BP numbers like that off everything let alone on.

Those are my numbers currently, and I'm not "on" currently.

Secondly, my blood pressure used to be 95/65 or so in the past, so I have naturally low blood pressure.

Lastly, I did add in all of these supplements when I was still cycling and they didn't change anything. Even when I was on no health supplements besides liver support, and was taking superdrol and test, my blood pressure was a max of 130/85 at most and typically closer to 120/80. I've read a number of studies showing BP benefits, that's actually why I started taking CoQ10 in the first place, but it didn't change it.

And yes, you're correct, I meant they weren't helping with Ejection Fraction...or if they were that just means my EF would be even worse now.

 

[Matty2127]

Stay on it brother. My wife sites cardiac and with my history is the reason I started. All else fails they will do stints not very invasive.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

My chest pain/compression feeling has been considerably more noticeable since my Echo last Friday. I assumed it had to be anxiety, but I did run out of Taurine and the Abana (included Arjuna) supplement Friday so maybe it isn't just my anxiety.

Ironically, we have a special guest lecturer for 4 hours on the topic of sleep apnea today....I'm going to talk to him and see if he has recommendations for setting something up.

Also, I told my brother about what is happening and he is going to get an echo done in the next few weeks. I hope his is fine, and I think it will be, but it will help determine if there is some genetic component (at the very least I'd like him to be sure, his EKGs have been fine but he says he gets the occasional heart palpitation/fluttering feeling at times).

 

[Stewie]

My chest pain/compression feeling has been considerably more noticeable since my Echo last Friday. I assumed it had to be anxiety, but I did run out of Taurine and the Abana (included Arjuna) supplement Friday so maybe it isn't just my anxiety.

Ironically, we have a special guest lecturer for 4 hours on the topic of sleep apnea today....I'm going to talk to him and see if he has recommendations for setting something up.

Also, I told my brother about what is happening and he is going to get an echo done in the next few weeks. I hope his is fine, and I think it will be, but it will help determine if there is some genetic component (at the very least I'd like him to be sure, his EKGs have been fine but he says he gets the occasional heart palpitation/fluttering feeling at times).

On rare occasions Asacol HD (Mesalamine) can cause drug induced myocarditis and pericarditis. Maybe something to discuss with your cardiologist?