ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME?? LIFE IN PRISON?

[n8ia]

i am not saying that it isn't horrible and i am not saying that i don't respect your opinion, but what i am saying is that if you do something that is grossly neglegent example under feeding an infant i mena come on a 6 week old infant that weighs 3lb common common sense even enlightened vegans should know this. You should be able to accept what you did and pay the price. If i go out tonight and get wasted and get into a car acident and kill another person and get sentenced to 20years in prison am i going to say it wasn't my fault it was the bartenders or the establishment's for serving me no I am going fall back on my morales and values and take my punishment does that mean i mihgt loose my man hood or have to be completely stripped of my dignity well you know what i killed someone and i deserve my punishment. it so easy to pass the buck now a days and say someone else shoudl be at fault or i don't deserve this type of treatment blah blah blah.
i mean church teaches that you should have compasion for these people and in a sense i do just because they were in a situation where they beleived they were acting in the right. But that goes completely out the window when You look at the simple facts when it comes to babies and how they bodies operate

 

[PHIL HERNON]

N8ia

If you have no clue of what the punishment entails, how can you condone this punishment for this crime? Again, no disrespect, but try a year in prison first then come tell me what you think.

 

[The Wolf]

So many weird people in this world. There are parents that belong to weird religous cults and they deprive there kids ov T.V! Could you beleive it, no T.V in the house? I think parents that do that should be locked up in Oz

 

[remos_pl]

Law...Common Sense...you have a very poor understanding of both. Perhaps on whatever planet you reside there is an institution known as "The Court of Common Sense"... common sense according to who? you? these criminals? people who don't want to take responsiblity for their actions? Here on earth we have something much different. Did you read my first post? Do you still not understand intent? Are you a mental health professional what is your diagnosis based on? They were FIT TO STAND TRIAL what mental disease do they suffer from? malice? negligence? disregard for human life? Those aren't diseases. You laugh at my posts, educate yourself then you can debate the law and common sense as you call it with me.

Lets try this again........
If you "dont see" intent then you simply are blind. THE MEANING OF "INTENT" TO KILL ENCOMPASSES MORE THAN A DESIRE OR PURPOSE TO ACHIEVE A RESULT. WHEN A DEFENDANT ACTS WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT HIS BEHAVOIR IS SUBSTANTIALLY LIKELY TO CAUSE A RESULT, HE IS CONSIDERED TO HAVE INTENDED IT. Certainly a competent adult understands actions/consequences, a competent adult understands the fact that if you do not feed and properly nourish a helpless child they will starve and die. Not only did they knowingly starve their own child to death, they also watched their child wilt away before their own eyes and took absolutely no action.

 

[Strider]

I have to agree with Phil on this one, you need to have some idea of what you are punishing another person with before you go off half-cocked handing out severe sentences left and right. I agree that some people belong in jail, but these people are just stupid not malicious. If there is any way to show that they purposefully starved the child, then fine I think they should be sent away for mental counselling in an institution at their own expense, but if there is no proof that they are anything other than stupid, well then I say sterilize them and let them go. That way all they can do in the future is hurt themselves. There will be no more children injured. That is punishment enough, they will never forget what their stupidity cost them and their child, but we won't end up supporting them with our tax dollars. Face it, jails are ridiculously overcrowded all over north america. Full of people who got caught with some marijuana or stealing a chocolate bar. For what? Fine them and send them home. Stop wasting our money on an oversized and still over overtaxed legal and prison system.

 

[The Wolf]

They watched there child die, they were complete nutters. I mean proper loopy loo. Being stupid and crazy dont mean you can get away with murder. Its like sticking a baby in a microwave so it can dry quickly and then saying something like "errr I didnt know that would happen" dooaaaa... Im getting angry typing this. Hang em high. Prison is too good. Btw if they really loved there child they wouldnt want to live anyway. I just wanna grab their heads and bash it against the walls. Im not even on a cycle but this has wound me up, the only time I get as angry is when Im on the juice. I get along with most people, I just cant stand commies, femenists and most of all vegans!

 

[bigfatandugly]

If you have no clue of what the punishment entails, how can you condone this punishment for this crime? Again, no disrespect, but try a year in prison first then come tell me what you think.

ok...

this is ridiculous.

spend a year in jail?

lol.

holy fuck.

try someone starving you until you die a slow death.

a year in jail would be a fucking cakewalk compared to what this baby went thru.


BFU

 

[Strider]

Okay Remos, explain to me how you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, these obviously intellectually impaired individuals understood what they were doing to the child? Everyone knows there are plenty of incredibly stupid people alive in the world right now. Just look at the Darwin awards for stupid people who have removed themselves from the gene pool. There's also a great Science Fiction story about it, the morons breed more and more children while intelligent people have fewer children, eventually intelligent people are slowly bred out of the population. I believe that it is highly plausible that these twisted vegan weirdos simply weren't intelligent enough to understand what was happening, they believed that the baby was fine.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Again Remos, one more time

Law...Common Sense...you have a very poor understanding of both. Perhaps on whatever planet you reside there is an institution known as "The Court of Common Sense"... common sense according to who? you? these criminals? people who don't want to take responsiblity for their actions? Here on earth we have something much different. Did you read my first post? Do you still not understand intent? Are you a mental health professional what is your diagnosis based on? They were FIT TO STAND TRIAL what mental disease do they suffer from? malice? negligence? disregard for human life? Those aren't diseases. You laugh at my posts, educate yourself then you can debate the law and common sense as you call it with me.

Lets try this again........
If you "dont see" intent then you simply are blind. THE MEANING OF "INTENT" TO KILL ENCOMPASSES MORE THAN A DESIRE OR PURPOSE TO ACHIEVE A RESULT. WHEN A DEFENDANT ACTS WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT HIS BEHAVOIR IS SUBSTANTIALLY LIKELY TO CAUSE A RESULT, HE IS CONSIDERED TO HAVE INTENDED IT. Certainly a competent adult understands actions/consequences, a competent adult understands the fact that if you do not feed and properly nourish a helpless child they will starve and die. Not only did they knowingly starve their own child to death, they also watched their child wilt away before their own eyes and took absolutely no action.

Common sense tells me that these people are not "competent". I do not believe that it was their intent to kill this child. Going back to my point, have you done prison time? Are you a prosecutor? Do you also believe in these long sentences for steroid crimes? I do not want to debate the law because I do not agree witm many aspects of it, nor am I a prosecutor. My point is that the punishment does not fit the crime. I do not need a law degree or your diatribe to comprehend that, but maybe you do.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Ok then, more specifically.....

ok...

this is ridiculous.

spend a year in jail?

lol.

holy fuck.

try someone starving you until you die a slow death.

a year in jail would be a fucking cakewalk compared to what this baby went thru.


Try life in prison.........is that better? Does saying "holy fuck" make you think I will understand your post?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Strider....

Okay Remos, explain to me how you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, these obviously intellectually impaired individuals understood what they were doing to the child? Everyone knows there are plenty of incredibly stupid people alive in the world right now. Just look at the Darwin awards for stupid people who have removed themselves from the gene pool. There's also a great Science Fiction story about it, the morons breed more and more children while intelligent people have fewer children, eventually intelligent people are slowly bred out of the population. I believe that it is highly plausible that these twisted vegan weirdos simply weren't intelligent enough to understand what was happening, they believed that the baby was fine.

Please do not think Remos will take the time to understand what you are saying here. You and I are wasting our time. Everyone has an opinion, the law is the law I suppose. I totally believe in what you are saying. Maybe we are just not as cynical as most.

 

[Bannock]

I guess I look at it this way. These people are seriously f'd in the head, but I really don't believe that they had any true intent to kill their child. Any sane parent on this board can understand that. What they did was wrong, but does sending them to prison for life seem appropriate?

Even if these parents are total nutters, they were still feeding their child in accordance with their beliefs, which happens to be one of the foundations of our "free" society. Granted, their beliefs ended up in the death of their child but there are a number of situations where children die and the punishment IS the death of the child.

When my great grandparents were crossing the prairie and their daughter died due to starvation and/or malnutrition, should they have been sent to jail for the rest of their lives? It was their conviction and desire to move out of the east and find a place in the midwest that ultimately ended up in the death of their child.

When the Mormons were ran out of the south and into Utah, dozens, if not hundreds of them (mainly children) died during the journey. Solely because of others intolerance of their religious practice. Should they have been sent to prison for life?

Why is it that women who throw children in dumpsters get mental help and a small amount of time when these two have been given a death sentence?

When my 8-year-old neighbors boy has diabetes because of his shitty diet, should we throw his parents in jail or take the time and effort to educate them on proper nutrition?

All of these people are f'd up, but this is America and justice is paramount. I personally don't believe that handing a woman a death sentence for her negligence is just. It's not like she was feeding the kid glass shards (like some parents who don't get life sentences) or anything, she was just following her dietary beliefs, and I bet they changed pretty quickly after her child died.

Bannock

 

[The Wolf]

Why didnt the mother breast feed? Vegans dont eat animal products so are they saying that we are animals too?
I think that they will get off and they have only been made an example so it can make other vegans aware. Watch, they will be free soon and they will have help and counseling.They have been setanced just so the goverement can cause hype and and send a message.

 

[norm1220]

I think all Vegans should be punished for this, by death. That's right.... Death to the herbivores! Anyone who willingly takes a step down on the food chain isn't contributing much to our society anyway.

Seriously, I cannot imagine a mother who would not breast feed her infant to keep him from dying. Anyone over the age of 5 knows that's why moms have breasts and kids under that age have that knowledge instinctively.

 

[Big_K]

I don't believe that the murder conviction was justified, over here it would be a open and close case of gross negligence manslaughter, probably 10-15 years.

They were completly at fault, tried to impose their beliefs on their child and it killed the poor guy, they breached the duty of care they had for that child by a huge margin, and deserve punishment.

Lets not forget they starved the kid to death, giving an extremely reduced amount of calories (and everyone should know the overall nutrition from soy milk and apple juice on this board) to a newborn is criminally negligent.

Edit: there is case law over here to back up the notion that one must get medical attention that does the job (i.e. not go about it half assed but make sure you get things treated) in fixing whatevers wrong, and if the person dies because you did not do that, you are liable.
Intention can also be inferred if the consiquences were virtually certain, i.e. feeding baby on basically nothing and not going to doctor would lead to serious illness and/or death.

I know the case is in the states, but just some perspective on what international law has to say on the matter.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

WOW

I guess I look at it this way. These people are seriously f'd in the head, but I really don't believe that they had any true intent to kill their child. Any sane parent on this board can understand that. What they did was wrong, but does sending them to prison for life seem appropriate?

Even if these parents are total nutters, they were still feeding their child in accordance with their beliefs, which happens to be one of the foundations of our "free" society. Granted, their beliefs ended up in the death of their child but there are a number of situations where children die and the punishment IS the death of the child.

When my great grandparents were crossing the prairie and their daughter died due to starvation and/or malnutrition, should they have been sent to jail for the rest of their lives? It was their conviction and desire to move out of the east and find a place in the midwest that ultimately ended up in the death of their child.

When the Mormons were ran out of the south and into Utah, dozens, if not hundreds of them (mainly children) died during the journey. Solely because of others intolerance of their religious practice. Should they have been sent to prison for life?

Why is it that women who throw children in dumpsters get mental help and a small amount of time when these two have been given a death sentence?

When my 8-year-old neighbors boy has diabetes because of his shitty diet, should we throw his parents in jail or take the time and effort to educate them on proper nutrition?

All of these people are f'd up, but this is America and justice is paramount. I personally don't believe that handing a woman a death sentence for her negligence is just. It's not like she was feeding the kid glass shards (like some parents who don't get life sentences) or anything, she was just following her dietary beliefs, and I bet they changed pretty quickly after her child died.

Bannock

That seems like a lot of common sense there. Unfortunately the people who make our laws and run this country severly lack it.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

I think all Vegans should be punished for this, by death. That's right.... Death to the herbivores! Anyone who willingly takes a step down on the food chain isn't contributing much to our society anyway.

Seriously, I cannot imagine a mother who would not breast feed her infant to keep him from dying. Anyone over the age of 5 knows that's why moms have breasts and kids under that age have that knowledge instinctively.

A lot of women chose not to breast feed..............it will not kill your child. Where in that article does it say that she "refused" to breast feed. She just chose formula and juice. BTW for everyone here, this is in Atlanta, not California.

 

[swervedriver]

Come on guys... These two idiots, morons or whatever you want to call them STARVED their child to death!! Plain and simple! Stupidity will not get you out of a crime in this country... If you think so, just tell your attorney you want to plead stupidity, and see where it gets you... If you willingly neglect (and that is exactly what these two did) a helpless child by withholding the nourishment it needed to grow and survive, then you deserve whatever punishment given... Hell majority of the crimes committed are because the person was ignorant, uneducated or plain stupid... Does that mean they should get a pass? These two basically put their vegan beliefs above the welfare of their child... Now if they want to starve themselves to death that is perfectly fine with me because they have a choice, but the child did not... That is what society and laws are there for, to protect those who cannot protect themselves... Was the sentence exorbitant? No! The reason being, they were competent enough to stand trial so they had some sense of right and wrong... They knew the child was sick and needed medical attention, but THEY decided not to take the child to the doctor to receive the care it needed... One does not need to spend one second in jail to know that this was a crime and that they deserved to be punished to the fullest extent... The baby lost it's life... So are you guys telling me that this baby's life is only worth the two of them spending a couple of years in jail? Because for heaven sakes we all know prison is tough... Well I haven't been to prison, and I haven't been pronounced dead, but at least these two fuckheads got to choose their fate that poor baby didn't... So as for me I say they got what they deserved... I just wish the child had recieved what it deserved, a long, healthy, happy life...

 

[confuzed_guy2000]

America is a blood thirsty society. This is all about revenge. The fat ass typical American thinks it is "strange" for a person to not want to eat meat so the parents were freaks who tortured their baby to death - right?

I'll bet half the jury went to McDonald's and had a big greasy burger after sending this couple to life in prison. It wasn't about sentencing as much as it was revenge.

Meanwhile the elite in this country send young men and woman to die for their agenda - thousands dead, many more seriously injured.

Our society and it's logic is twisted. That is for sure.

 

[alan1973]

most of you guys know nothing and I see this clearly in your posts.
My son died of SIDS 10 years ago, and since I was in the military I was investigated by both the military and civilian police. They did not give a shit that I just lost a child, they just wanted to pin the blame.
These folks just lost a child, and the fact that they lost the child should be enough punishment in itself. The pain of losing a child is like NO OTHER PAIN IN THE WORLD!
I agree with those saying that these folks need counseling, and lots of it, and they should not be allowed to procreate until they have completed the counseling, but Prison?!?! like they haven't suffered enough?
I second the motion that we should have mandatory couseling for those about to get married and then mandatory counseling and training before one is allowed to procreate, but that will infringe on the rights of all human beings. Humans make mistakes.
and Remos, sorry, but "intent" has a motive, and these folks did not have any motive as far as the viewers can read or see.
remember there is a difference between intention and fault (dolus vs. culpa).

But we all could be wrong, there could be more to this case than any of us know and that is why this went to trial.