Can someone please clear something up for me?

[Jimbo]

Every single dame time I pick up flex/MD I read articles by the pros about how you shouldn’t think about the weight and just go for the pump. How can muscle size and strength not be relative? I’m gonna start Powerlifting next week and I think my best D/L is something like 450x2. If I was to build that up to 600x2, wouldn’t I be a hell of a lot bigger?

 

[ken69dahl]

Not necessarily!

"It is not the amount of weight you lift but how you lift it". I could throw on tons of plates and lift heavy, or I could go lite and get the same pump. I think form and control is better than heavy anyday. I do like to go heavy once in a while to get my muscle used to feeling a heavier weight then when I go back down a little it seems easier.

 

[Jimbo]

isint it possible to master proper form while do 1RM on the Squat, B/P and deads???

 

[BIGKIWI]

Interesting thing I have found over the last 3 months my weights have been down around 15% but I am growing better now and have been getting the most painful pumps ?? all this without changing my gear cycles at all. I have been including alot more supplements like creatine glutamine etc. It leads me to think that getting a Fuller pump really does help you grow faster and not always heavy as possible weight ( I had never thought this way before always gone as heavy as poss ) Then again it could just be a temporary thing as I am shocking my body . Anyways enough my ranting

 

[homonunculus]

Variety is the spice of training gains...

Interesting thing I have found over the last 3 months my weights have been down around 15% but I am growing better now and have been getting the most painful pumps ?? a ( I had never thought this way before always gone as heavy as poss ) Then again it could just be a temporary thing as I am shocking my body .

Kiwi is onto something here:

Using lighter weights allows you to lift the weight using the muscle(s) you're trying to train. E.g., DB side laterals can be done with 70lb'er, using momementum generated with the lower body, the traps and even wrist extension, in addition to the delts - OR - you can train in a more controlled fashion and use your mental focus to drive the target muscle into oblivion, rather than expend neural drive trying to move the weight throw space by any means possible. BUT, both ways of training can elicit gain, b/c even when doing the same exercise (same name at least) the nervous system must use a different strategy to lift the weight and therefore the fiber recruitement pattern is different, the stimulus is different (novel) and you get growth simply from changing programs!

At 2 ends of the spectrum: Lee Priest is slow and controlled on everything. Ronnie C. is very ballistic, some might say sloppy. BOth guys are friggin' impressive as hell.

Ronnie is, granted, an exception, but I have found that doing slow, controlled ("perfect form") lifting (DB side laterals as above, presses as if doing flies and not using the triceps to lift, tryiing to remove the low back from SLDL's, etc.) is a way to get away with a larger training volume without taxing the nervous system so much. This sort of training (slow controlled "feel" training) of course lends itself to machines and isolation movements pretty well, too.

My take: do both. I also like the idea someone else mentioned of occasionally (withing a workout or as a seperate workout) having training heavy (Ballistic "sloppy" set) so that the wt. feels lighter during the controlled training.

I think Milos Sarcev calls this "contracting" the weight (or something like that) vs. lifting the weight in one of the Battle for the Olympia videos.

-Randy

 

[MikeS]

I agree-do both. I feel you must train heavy basic exercises as a beginner for years. Incorporate reps and isolation after the heavy work. I must say my shoulders are finally growing doing heavy
smith presses, then reps front and side raises, superset and the end of each. Just doing the heavy presses alone before, and they were stagnant.

Now remember, what BIGKIWI says is 15% lighter for him, still is a massive amount of weight for most of us.

 

[killer]

I HEARD THE FUCK OUT OF THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LATS]

I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SAY THE SAME THING AS MIKES. THE PROS CAN SAY ALL THEY WANT ABOUT FEELING WEIGHTS BUT, THE WEIGHTS THEY ARE "FEELING" ARE STILL VERY IMPRESSIVE. I REMEMBER BEING AT GOLDS IN VENICE ONCE AND AARON BAKER WAS TALKING ABOUT FEELING THE WEIGHT AND THAT WEIGHT MADE LITTLE DIFFERENCE. THE NEXT DAY BRIGHT AND EARLY , HE WAS IN GOLDS THE SAME TIME AS ME DOING INCLINE PRESSES. THE DIFFERENCE WAS HE WAS FEELING THE MUSCLE WORK USING 405 IN PERFECT FORM. I ONCE BROUGHT UP THE SLOOPY FORM OF SOME OF THE PROS TO MY BUDDY WHO IS A DOC OF EXERCISE PHYS . HE STATED THAT ALL THE MUSCLE HAS TO DO IS CONTRACT. SO USING SLOOPY FORM BUT, ALOT OF WEIGHT (EVEN THE NOTORIOUS HALF REPS THAT SOME OF THE PROS DO) IS THE KEY. SO GO FIGURE. TWO ARGUMENTS BUT ONE OUTCOME. THE KEY REALLY IS TO TEAR DOWN MUSCLE FIBER BUT, STAY INJURY FREE.

 

[Jimbo]

Thanks for the input dudes!