heart attack

[jeroendebleser]

Competitive athletes sure, but that's due to a multitude of factors including how soon they get out of it as well.

By that logic, taking an ace inhibitor since you were an infant would cause you live till 200.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

How is that 'by that logic' thethinker? Don't you think one and the same individual WOULD live longer when he or she took a béta-blocker? (I'm not educated on ace-inhibitors but I assume they control largely the same things)
Because here in Belgium, béta-blockers are openly promoted as 'heart-healthy', meaning your heart will indeed last longer on one.

 

[jeroendebleser]

The guy just asked the question. You don't realize you are just like the guys who play the genetics card all the time but the opposite side of the spectrum. If a guy has run some aas cycles for you that is the cause of his death from your posts before you even know any details. This has nothing to do with the guy this thread is about. It's common sense aas were likely a major factor in his early death. But just because someone has a heart attack young and uses aas it doesn't mean they were the actual cause. I have heard of a few young guys who have died from heart attacks in the last few months who never touched drugs.

No my head is not in the sand and I am not making excuses. Anyone with half a brain can see steroids lead to heart attacks and a number of other serious medical conditions. Steroids are bad for the heart in so many different ways. Combined with food and training it's a lot of weight and a lot of added stress for the heart. Someone may have lived till 90 natural and fit but with steroids die at 40 so no one is making excuses. But as thethinker alluded to genetics do hold a tonne of weight in most cases.

All we can do is what we always post about and be sensible. Cruise on real cruise doses and basically do not abuse. Try to keep blood work as perfect as possible and stay stress free. Don't get too heavy and eat well and do cardio. If we are lucky we will live very old but even if we do all of these things we could drop diet tomorrow so enjoy life.

OP I am sorry about your friend and my post is in no way about him. I hope you are ok. Hopefully your post makes people realize you only get one chance at life so we should not take big risks when trying to attain our perfect physiques.

Great post bro :headbang:

 

[jeroendebleser]

Surprised they used that for you when you don't have any heart problems. Im on that. They use it on me mainly for the heart rate lowering effect it has. It doesn't lower BP as much as other drugs do. It mostly used as a sort of governor for heart rate.

I do have sinus tachycardia (high resting heart rate) but they only discovered that after I already was on one. Maybe the views on whether people should be placed on one differ from US to EU? Over here, you can get one prescribed asap. (and from a health perspective: why wouldn't they do it?)

 

[jeroendebleser]

not sure why people skipped over this post

beta-blockers will 99% of the times prevent a heart attack, even though its harder to stay lean, totally worth it

ALSO KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR HEMACRIT LEVELS, IT'S SO EASY, BLOOD DONATION CENTER WILL TELL YOU YOUR LEVELS EVERY DONATION

It's because of my join date which makes me look like a newbie even though I was on here before most of you (under my previous handle)

 

[jeroendebleser]

I just came off my metoprolol so i could do cardio. Couldnt get my heart rate above 100. Any suggestions?

Unless you're planning to do endurance sports, there is really no need to get your heart rate over 100. Cardio works just fine when below 100 bpm. Just choose something that actually burns kcals and makes you sweat like an elliptical trainer. Don't go doing the 'walking on a threadmill' stuff, that's too little effort requiring to get you your cosmetic effect.

 

[maldorf]

I do have sinus tachycardia (high resting heart rate) but they only discovered that after I already was on one. Maybe the views on whether people should be placed on one differ from US to EU? Over here, you can get one prescribed asap. (and from a health perspective: why wouldn't they do it?)

Ok, so you do have tachycardia but it seemed to be after the fact. Strange. Here in the US they don't go prescribing beta blockers unless there is a reason for it, not seen as preventative medicine if you don't already have a condition. I don't think it makes any sense either. For someone like me though it is a life saver. I also have to take the antiarrythmic mexiletine too.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Ok, so you do have tachycardia but it seemed to be after the fact. Strange. Here in the US they don't go prescribing beta blockers unless there is a reason for it, not seen as preventative medicine if you don't already have a condition. I don't think it makes any sense either. For someone like me though it is a life saver. I also have to take the antiarrythmic mexiletine too.

Wouldn't you agree it's healthier to be on one than not be on one, needed or not? It's still less strain on the heart whether you acutely need it or not. Especially for a juicing bodybuilder? I can only guess but I suspect that's the dr's reasoning for putting people on them. (not only bodybuilders though)

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Unless you're planning to do endurance sports, there is really no need to get your heart rate over 100. Cardio works just fine when below 100 bpm. Just choose something that actually burns kcals and makes you sweat like an elliptical trainer. Don't go doing the 'walking on a threadmill' stuff, that's too little effort requiring to get you your cosmetic effect.

Thanks..good to know

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[maldorf]

Wouldn't you agree it's healthier to be on one than not be on one, needed or not? It's still less strain on the heart whether you acutely need it or not. Especially for a juicing bodybuilder? I can only guess but I suspect that's the dr's reasoning for putting people on them. (not only bodybuilders though)

No. The body regulates the heart rate accordingly and as long as there is no disease state there is no need to medicate. The best scenario I think is for a person to take no medications at all. Slowing down the heart rate if there is no disease is not going to make you live longer.

Being on a betablocker is going to reduce your cardiac output when you exercise, and limit your activity. No reason to do that unless having your rate high is dangerous like it is in me. If mine gets too high I can go into Ventricular fibrillation and then cardiac arrest.

I can also attest to the ill effects on erections and fat gain. It slows the metabolism and there is a list of other side effects too.

 

[Alzadosghost]

I was put on a low dose of propranolol for a stomach issue. my doctor told me I wasn't going to like what it did to my training. he was right. I could barely train at all on that stuff. made me feel like a noodle, could not get a pump. I was getting dizzy as fuck from it. I stopped. felt better immediately. nothing wrong w my heart. I had no business fucking w my heart function when it wassworking just fine. that doctor was a tard

 

[jeroendebleser]

No. The body regulates the heart rate accordingly and as long as there is no disease state there is no need to medicate. The best scenario I think is for a person to take no medications at all. Slowing down the heart rate if there is no disease is not going to make you live longer.

Being on a betablocker is going to reduce your cardiac output when you exercise, and limit your activity. No reason to do that unless having your rate high is dangerous like it is in me. If mine gets too high I can go into Ventricular fibrillation and then cardiac arrest.

I can also attest to the ill effects on erections and fat gain. It slows the metabolism and there is a list of other side effects too.

You're certainly correct the way you put it but my 'why aren't all of you on béta-blockers?' question was aimed towards the many juicers on here who are walking around with high bp and probably too high a resting heart rate as well.

I think we can agree they would be wise to get on a med to contain both?

For the general population, if our lead cardiologist has his theory (and relax guys, it's just a theory of his as of now, nothing more) about the genetically built in number of tics, it's to be expected béta-blockers are sometimes pushed by primary physicians.

As far as ED and/or metabolism slowing, I'm on both Cialis for impotence induced by a nerve pain med (Lyrica) and on Levothyroxine for Hashimoto's disease so I don't suffer from either ED or a lagging metabolism.

Are both side effects THAT pronounced for you?

I was thinking of switching over to Carvedilol since it does one extra thing compared to Bisoprolol and is third generation so it should simply be better.

Worth the try?

 

[G.I.Bro]

You're certainly correct the way you put it but my 'why aren't all of you on béta-blockers?' question was aimed towards the many juicers on here who are walking around with high bp and probably too high a resting heart rate as well.

I think we can agree they would be wise to get on a med to contain both?

For the general population, if our lead cardiologist has his theory (and relax guys, it's just a theory of his as of now, nothing more) about the genetically built in number of tics, it's to be expected béta-blockers are sometimes pushed by primary physicians.

As far as ED and/or metabolism slowing, I'm on both Cialis for impotence induced by a nerve pain med (Lyrica) and on Levothyroxine for Hashimoto's disease so I don't suffer from either ED or a lagging metabolism.

Are both side effects THAT pronounced for you?

I was thinking of switching over to Carvedilol since it does one extra thing compared to Bisoprolol and is third generation so it should simply be better.

Worth the try?

Bystolic is the MOST cardio selective beta blocker available right now (meaning specific to the heart and less whole body due to receptors it targets). It's a beta 1 receptor blocker with nitric oxide-potentiating vasodilatory effects - ideal for us. I'd go with that, 5-10mg day when blasting AAS or using CLEN. Or year round. Before that, as a year round option, I'd take Telmisartan for blood pressure. It's a better first line approach for your average guy with no heart issues. Then, if needed for heart rate or higher BP, stack low dose Bystolic during those more intense times.

The broader class of beta blockers like propranolol are more likely to have the systematic sides discussed herein when used every day. At 10mg or less, Bystolic is almost entirely heart selective.

 

[Elvia1023]

No. The body regulates the heart rate accordingly and as long as there is no disease state there is no need to medicate. The best scenario I think is for a person to take no medications at all. Slowing down the heart rate if there is no disease is not going to make you live longer.

Being on a betablocker is going to reduce your cardiac output when you exercise, and limit your activity. No reason to do that unless having your rate high is dangerous like it is in me. If mine gets too high I can go into Ventricular fibrillation and then cardiac arrest.

I can also attest to the ill effects on erections and fat gain. It slows the metabolism and there is a list of other side effects too.

Great advice/post. It interesting to me the way guys will self medicate everything even when they don't need it. They use it just incase. Preventative care is very important so I am not stating don't take anything but some of these things should not be messed with when there is no disease state. Now if you have high bp due to steroids take something to lower your bp when on steroids. I take an array of health supplements so I believe in prevention before treatment but when you start adding the kitchen sink because each item is "good for you" it may even do the opposite of what they hope.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Bystolic is the MOST cardio selective beta blocker available right now (meaning specific to the heart and less whole body due to receptors it targets). It's a beta 1 receptor blocker with nitric oxide-potentiating vasodilatory effects - ideal for us. I'd go with that, 5-10mg day when blasting AAS or using CLEN. Or year round. Before that, as a year round option, I'd take Telmisartan for blood pressure. It's a better first line approach for your average guy with no heart issues. Then, if needed for heart rate or higher BP, stack low dose Bystolic during those more intense times.

The broader class of beta blockers like propranolol are more likely to have the systematic sides discussed herein when used every day. At 10mg or less, Bystolic is almost entirely heart selective.

Cool, I'll look into it. So you would advise Bystolic over Carvedilol?

Can you still get your heart rate up on Bystolic like you (apparently) can on Carvedilol? And I assume it helps erectile function instead of causing impotence?

Thx mate

 

[jeroendebleser]

Great advice/post. It interesting to me the way guys will self medicate everything even when they don't need it. They use it just incase. Preventative care is very important so I am not stating don't take anything but some of these things should not be messed with when there is no disease state. Now if you have high bp due to steroids take something to lower your bp when on steroids. I take an array of health supplements so I believe in prevention before treatment but when you start adding the kitchen sink because each item is "good for you" it may even do the opposite of what they hope.

Just to be clear, I'm not self medicating anything Every med I'm on is for a legit medical reason. I don't even like taking pills so I wouldn't easily self medicate. I never said people should take a béta-blocker when not having either high bp, hr or both. That would have been crazy indeed. I think we are all in agreeance here.

 

[G.I.Bro]

Cool, I'll look into it. So you would advise Bystolic over Carvedilol?

Can you still get your heart rate up on Bystolic like you (apparently) can on Carvedilol? And I assume it helps erectile function instead of causing impotence?

Thx mate

Me personally, yes. Coreg would be suited for someone with more severe heart issues. It is a nonselective beta blocker/alpha-1 blocker. As mentioned earlier, Bystolic is a selective b1 blocker focusing more on cardiac tissue. It will have less sides and is better suited for weight training and activity.

I would use Bystolic only if Telmisartan doesn't bring your BP in ideal ranges or if you have secondary issues like excessively high heart rate, etc. Remember, cardio is number one for all of these. But I'd recommend some protection with these drugs if you're older and/or redlining gear. Most guys have high heart rate and blood pressure issues when in moderate doses of AAS and GH. At 35, I take them as a proactive measure. I don't take Bystolic all year though, only on blast or when using clen. Telmisartan I do use year round.

 

[nothuman]

Cool, I'll look into it. So you would advise Bystolic over Carvedilol?

Can you still get your heart rate up on Bystolic like you (apparently) can on Carvedilol? And I assume it helps erectile function instead of causing impotence?

Thx mate

Yes to still being able to get heart rate up and yes to better erectile function on Bystolic. Enhances NO production, unlike the others.

 

[maldorf]

You're certainly correct the way you put it but my 'why aren't all of you on béta-blockers?' question was aimed towards the many juicers on here who are walking around with high bp and probably too high a resting heart rate as well.

I think we can agree they would be wise to get on a med to contain both?

For the general population, if our lead cardiologist has his theory (and relax guys, it's just a theory of his as of now, nothing more) about the genetically built in number of tics, it's to be expected béta-blockers are sometimes pushed by primary physicians.

As far as ED and/or metabolism slowing, I'm on both Cialis for impotence induced by a nerve pain med (Lyrica) and on Levothyroxine for Hashimoto's disease so I don't suffer from either ED or a lagging metabolism.

Are both side effects THAT pronounced for you?

I was thinking of switching over to Carvedilol since it does one extra thing compared to Bisoprolol and is third generation so it should simply be better.

Worth the try?

If a bodybuilder is starting to show signs of cardiomyopathy or heart failure where his resting rate is up around 100 or so then yeah, I think it would be a good idea. Most guys though just have high blood pressure and then something like lisinopril would be much more appropriate.

The ED is a problem, but ive been married now for over 20 years and to be honest my wife could care less,lol. As far as metabolism I don't think it is a huge factor but I do think it is there. I don't exercise like I used to so its hard for me to fully explain my bodyfat gain. I do think there is some component there but not a deal breaker.

I was on Carvedilol (Coreg CR) for about 9 years but in the past year switched to bisoprolol because it is even more heart specific and will control my heart rate even better. The Coreg lowers BP more though, but that isn't a problem for me really, heart rate is my issue. My heart wants to go into V fib and then make my defibrillator have to fire off to save me. Bisoprolol I think has done a better job of keeping it under control since it got worse. Im taking 20 mg/day now, the highest recommended dose. Took my BP today and it was 113/65. That's about what it usually is. If the diastolic gets much lower than that I feel crappy. Im also taking a low dose of Lisinopril, I think its 10 mg.

Between taking Bisoprolol or Carvedilol I would listen to your doctor. Ask him to explain and do what he thinks is best. If you main problem is like mine and you need to control the heart rate then Bisoprolol is better. It has a stronger affect on the receptors just in the heart and doesn't affect the receptors in the blood vessels as much so BP wont come down as much. With Bisoprolol youd want to take lisinopril with it if your BP is still too high.

 

[maldorf]

Cool, I'll look into it. So you would advise Bystolic over Carvedilol?

Can you still get your heart rate up on Bystolic like you (apparently) can on Carvedilol? And I assume it helps erectile function instead of causing impotence?

Thx mate

Carvedilol still limits the heart rate too, but it isn't nearly as powerful. I was taking 80 mg/day! In comparison I am only taking 20 mg/day bisoprolol. Both doses are highest recommended doses. To take those kind of doses takes several months of "titrating" up. Slow process and not always comfortable. Both meds limit the heart rate though. Doc said just a few days ago after reading the data off of my defibrillator that my heart rate doesn't ever get over 110 BPM, even when I am running of the treadmill.

 

[AllLoadedUp]

Sorry to hear this, so young that's not fair.
You hear this a lot however someone dies of a heart attach but actually it was clogged arteries.
CT calcium scan only takes a few minutes and will reveal any plaque build up.

I will be getting one in two weeks. Although my doc knows nothing about my AAS use. I have a history of heart issues on my Dad's side of the family. So I have used that as an excuse to take proactive measures with my Doctor

We decided 3 years ago I would get an Echocardiogram done every 3 years. But after researching the Cardiac CT Scan I told him I wanted to do that instead from now on. I look forward to getting it done. To hell with waiting until you have issues to find something out. Or God forbid passing away. Its too late then.