Hey slesh

b-boy · Sep 13, 2023

LOL you should have never started following me on IG sucka...JK

Seriously let's talk about your hatred for an 80/20 diet, let's discuss since I don't agree at all, this can make for some good discussion on the board.

First give me your thoughts on why you think it's stupid.

Me:
It's not for everyone, if your the average weak minded person you will probably go overboard with the 20 part but at the same time if that same weak minded person is put on too restrictive of a diet then they are going to eventually binge anyways.
For your average decently hard weight trainer then sure as long as calories are equated and protein goals are met then the rest is just energy and as long as you remain in an energy deficit then you are going to lose bodyfat, so you can enjoy a little bit of ice cream at night or some brownies post workout and get damn lean doing it, thus the 80/20 rule is just fine, and health wise.....as long as you are losing bodyfat you will see an improvement in bloodwork parameters.

b-boy · Sep 13, 2023

All thoughts and opinions welcome

b-boy · Sep 13, 2023

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slesh · Sep 13, 2023

Hahahhaha love this. Driving - will respond in a few.

goback2013 · Sep 13, 2023

b-boy said:
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great presentation!

Fleezy · Sep 13, 2023

Word on the street is Slesh wipes back to front

slesh · Sep 13, 2023

So I despise this for a bunch of reasons - not all correlated. First off I am not a believer that a calorie is a calorie. Yes - on a high level calorie in vs calorie out will result in a surplus or deficit. However the idea that a gram of chicken breast protein is the same 4 calories as a gram of sugar is just asinine to me. Digestion, nutrient partitioning, insulin response and the overall timing of the caloric intake are all factors in gaining or losing weight and your health markers. Sure if you are severely obese then have it - do the 80/20 to jump start your "diet" and get your feet wet in a new lifestyle.

And to your point above this is not for the weak minded. Not trying to be a dick but anyone who has let themselves gain significant weight IS weak minded (just as I was) and I believe will ultimately start bending the 80/20. I did these types of fad diets all the time growing up before I truly understood nutrition and there are no short cuts - I always gained the weight back.

This leads me into my final point: Brad I've never seen pictures of your fitness journey transformation. I don't know your body type and where you started. I'm going to guess you are probably a meso. As I mentioned in the video what absolutely pisses me the fuck off is when these "coaches" and "influencers" who are clearly ectos and mesos are trying to give advice to endos. Unless you know what it's like to truly struggle with weight loss and have an unhealthy relationship with food then IMO in no way should you be giving advice to someone who has. These fuck heads like Josh Goldy (go look him up) are the types of jerk offs who had abs in high school while eating pizza every day - he has zero credibility.

There's a bunch of other reasons as well but I'll just start here lol...

slesh · Sep 13, 2023

Fleezy said:
Word on the street is Slesh wipes back to front

Bro I drop clean as fuck snakes - no wipe needed.

SouthernMuscle · Sep 13, 2023

.

slesh said:
So I despise this for a bunch of reasons - not all correlated. First off I am not a believer that a calorie is a calorie. Yes - on a high level calorie in vs calorie out will result in a surplus or deficit. However the idea that a gram of chicken breast protein is the same 4 calories as a gram of sugar is just asinine to me. Digestion, nutrient partitioning, insulin response and the overall timing of the caloric intake are all factors in gaining or losing weight and your health markers. Sure if you are severely obese then have it - do the 80/20 to jump start your "diet" and get your feet wet in a new lifestyle.

And to your point above this is not for the weak minded. Not trying to be a dick but anyone who has let themselves gain significant weight IS weak minded (just as I was) and I believe will ultimately start bending the 80/20. I did these types of fad diets all the time growing up before I truly understood nutrition and there are no short cuts - I always gained the weight back.

This leads me into my final point: Brad I've never seen pictures of your fitness journey transformation. I don't know your body type and where you started. I'm going to guess you are probably a meso. As I mentioned in the video what absolutely pisses me the fuck off is when these "coaches" and "influencers" who are clearly ectos and mesos are trying to give advice to endos. Unless you know what it's like to truly struggle with weight loss and have an unhealthy relationship with food then IMO in no way should you be giving advice to someone who has. These fuck heads like Josh Goldy (go look him up) are the types of jerk offs who had abs in high school while eating pizza every day - he has zero credibility.

There's a bunch of other reasons as well but I'll just start here lol...

vid was great

never heard of this diet before. You have my vote though. All the friends i’ve helped were endos and it takes a forced elimination diet, bare bones, to get them to understand the willpower part. Then after that i can let up and give some normal foods

slesh · Sep 13, 2023

SouthernMuscle said:
.

vid was great

never heard of this diet before. You have my vote though. All the friends i’ve helped were endos and it takes a forced elimination diet, bare bones, to get them to understand the willpower part. Then after that i can let up and give some normal foods

This^ 100% - sadly it has to be all or nothing. You need to go cold turkey for a few weeks in order to lose the sugar cravings.

b-boy · Sep 13, 2023

The problem with being too strict with weak minded people are they are the ones that are like "yes I'm following the diet and not losing weight" while they are up at 3am binge eating peanutbutter and cookies.

Endo, meso, bla bla bla....calories in vs calories out, once you understand that simple concept and learn how to properly track food then the possibilities are endless, you are the master of your own destiny at that point.

b-boy · Sep 13, 2023

I use to be one of those "eat only these foods" guy, now I mostly see that demonizing certain foods just leads to eating disorders.

Note: in an above response slesh compared protein calorie to sugar calories, I said hit your protein target then the energy calories could be used how you want within reason. Protein threshold must be met first.

Flex500 · Sep 13, 2023

I'm just catching up but assume by 80/20 diet you mean hit your calorie and protein goal and eat those perceived as "healthy" 80% of the time?

If that is the case, I'm with b-boy on this one...but 100% see where slesh is coming from. From my experience, I'm going to refer to people I work with which is athletes and people with high fitness goals, but are not taking the PED's to the level of folks here or have aspirations of being a pro. I'm not sure any of that matters, but that is the people I usually work with. Meso, ecto, endo, etc. I find it's best to...

Teach them about calories and a baseline understanding of protein and nutrition overall. I work with 22 year olds that literally don't know how to read a nutrition label. This doesn't mean it's a free for all. Often I'll write out various choices based on what they like but I'm trying to teach them to fish and make good decisions on food and nutrition. I kind of work like this...

Set the calorie goal
Set the protein goal
Set a directional goal for fruits and veggies and what the core (80%+) of their diet can look like.

I was a sprinter in college and naturally very lean but I sort of turned into an Endo and I get fat easily. I did exactly what b-boy said when I was 100% strict and just end up breaking and cheating, but if I can focus on hitting a calorie goal, protein goal, and overall make good decisions with variety...I'd do that all day.

slesh · Sep 13, 2023

b-boy said:
The problem with being too strict with weak minded people are they are the ones that are like "yes I'm following the diet and not losing weight" while they are up at 3am binge eating peanutbutter and cookies.

Endo, meso, bla bla bla....calories in vs calories out, once you understand that simple concept and learn how to properly track food then the possibilities are endless, you are the master of your own destiny at that point.

The disconnect in our arguments is you’re trying to prove a scientific point as if the subject was in vaccum and someone is controlling their food intake. The real world self control aspect is a HUGE part of this and where most fail. Again - I dealt with this for years - I believe it has to be all or nothing. Cheat meals every 7-10 days are fine - but eating crap daily just because it fits into your 20% will lead to binge eating and rationalizing poor decisions.

Doitagain · Sep 13, 2023

b-boy said:
The problem with being too strict with weak minded people are they are the ones that are like "yes I'm following the diet and not losing weight" while they are up at 3am binge eating peanutbutter and cookies.

Endo, meso, bla bla bla....calories in vs calories out, once you understand that simple concept and learn how to properly track food then the possibilities are endless, you are the master of your own destiny at that point.

Call me cynical but the weak minded will drop the ball anyway eventually.

bbxtreme · Sep 13, 2023

I think it really depends on the individual. I’m an all or nothing individual. I don’t think anyone can appreciate moderation or the process until they’ve experienced it so they know what it takes. You have to feel that “pain and suffering”.

Once past that I think “some” people can be fine with what @b-boy is saying.

But then there’s other group of people who if they break one thing on their diet then they throw the whole thing out the window.

In the end I think you have to find what is sustainable for the individual. For some that’s all or nothing. For others the 80/20 or flexible dieting approach works.

How healthy is their relationship with food determines it all from what I’ve seen over the years. Most people’s relationship with food is about pleasure, not fuel.

slesh · Sep 13, 2023

Doitagain said:
Call me cynical but the weak minded will drop the ball anyway eventually.

Agree and that’s why I believe you need to go cold turkey. The body and mind need a reset to end the cravings. It has to be a lifestyle change - not a “diet”.

b-boy · Sep 13, 2023

slesh said:
The disconnect in our arguments is you’re trying to prove a scientific point as if the subject was in vaccum and someone is controlling their food intake. The real world self control aspect is a HUGE part of this and where most fail. Again - I dealt with this for years - I believe it has to be all or nothing. Cheat meals every 7-10 days are fine - but eating crap daily just because it fits into your 20% will lead to binge eating and rationalizing poor decisions.

Once again I stand by this for anyone
1. Teach them to accurately track food and calories
2. Give them a calorie goal
3. Give them a protein goal

If they can do the above three thing they will succeed. They MUST do the above 3 things.

But coach I'm hungry well then tomorrow instead of having brownies have an equated number of calories in a large salad (they probably can't even eat that much) do that for two days then have brownies on the third. If they stay within the calorie goal they will slay this shit. Normal people diet is so fucking easy it's crazy. Now precontest diet for a show is a different animal and even it's easy until you get to a low body fat then shit gets difficult.