How many of you use insulin while cutting?

[KillerStack]

I can't remember, but have we had a thread about the insulin before cardio theory, someone said it's Aceto's thing, does it make sense?

 

[qbkilla]

I can't remember, but have we had a thread about the insulin before cardio theory, someone said it's Aceto's thing, does it make sense?

If I had to guess it is to lower fasted glucose so more fat is burned as fuel? Similar in theory to fasted cardio?

 

[Muay Thai]

If I had to guess it is to lower fasted glucose so more fat is burned as fuel? Similar in theory to fasted cardio?

I am almost certain it is because in theory the admin of insulin pre fasted cardio (which I did 12 iu today at gym) then did cardio for 20 (started going hypo), made intra workout drink and ate half banana, instant fix. worked out and had killerworkout, hit sauna and spa after.

in theory the admin of insulin pre fasted cardio it shuttles "any" glucose that is hanging out into skeletal muscle, thus increasing our actual FAT burning, directly using FAT as a source of "energy"

for fat loss to occur, fatty acids must be mobilized from our fat stores and be transported to the Mitochondria for oxidation. Meaning, mitochondria can get rid of body fat

@mitochondria -

The main role of mitochondria is to break down fats and other molecules to release chemical energy that powers many processes in cells.

Your body primarily uses the oxidative system to make ATP when you're not exercising, during low-intensity exercise, and during moderate-intensity exercise that lasts longer than 3 minutes. It's also the only energy system that burns fat

In conclusion, insulin stimulates mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation in skeletal muscle along with synthesis of gene transcripts and mitochondrial protein in human subjects. Skeletal muscle of type 2 diabetic patients has a reduced capacity to increase ATP production with high insulin levels.

Does insulin make ATP?


Insulin-mediated ATP production has been associated with enhanced mitochondrial protein synthesis [9,12] and with increased mRNA levels and activities of mitochondrial enzymes involved in fuel oxidation [9]. Consistently, insulin has been shown to promote glucose oxidation [

Does insulin convert glucose to ATP?


Cells in the body take up the circulating glucose in response to insulin and, through a series of reactions called glycolysis, transfer some of the energy in glucose to ADP to form ATP (Figure 2). The last step in glycolysis produces the product pyruvate.

What creates ATP from glucose?


Glucose is converted into ATP by cellular respiration. One molecule of glucose produces 38 ATP molecules by aerobic respiration in the cytoplasm and mitochondria. The steps involved in cellular respiration are glycolysis, Krebs cycle, and oxidative phosphorylation.

 

[Muay Thai]

Does insulin stimulate ATP production?

Insulin plays a crucial role in cardiac energy metabolism by orchestrating the contribution of oxidative substrates, including glucose and fatty acids, to cardiac ATP production.

interesting I didnt know insulin was also an amino acid sequence, like hgh, like bpc157,. like most peptides!! like the human DNA CODE.

What are the 4 functions of insulin?


Insulin, a hormone composed of 51 amino acids, plays important roles in glucose homeostasis, cell growth, and metabolism

What response does insulin produce?


For example, in skeletal muscle, insulin promotes glucose utilization and storage by increasing glucose transport and net glycogen synthesis. In liver, insulin activates glycogen synthesis, increases lipogenic gene expression, and decreases gluconeogenic gene expression.

Does glucose produce ATP?


Glucose and other food molecules are broken down by controlled stepwise oxidation to provide chemical energy in the form of ATP and NADH.

 

[qbkilla]

I am almost certain it is because in theory the admin of insulin pre fasted cardio (which I did 12 iu today at gym) then did cardio for 20 (started going hypo), made intra workout drink and ate half banana, instant fix. worked out and had killerworkout, hit sauna and spa after.

in theory the admin of insulin pre fasted cardio it shuttles "any" glucose that is hanging out into skeletal muscle, thus increasing our actual FAT burning, directly using FAT as a source of "energy"

for fat loss to occur, fatty acids must be mobilized from our fat stores and be transported to the Mitochondria for oxidation. Meaning, mitochondria can get rid of body fat

@mitochondria -

The main role of mitochondria is to break down fats and other molecules to release chemical energy that powers many processes in cells.

Your body primarily uses the oxidative system to make ATP when you're not exercising, during low-intensity exercise, and during moderate-intensity exercise that lasts longer than 3 minutes. It's also the only energy system that burns fat

In conclusion, insulin stimulates mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation in skeletal muscle along with synthesis of gene transcripts and mitochondrial protein in human subjects. Skeletal muscle of type 2 diabetic patients has a reduced capacity to increase ATP production with high insulin levels.

Does insulin make ATP?


Insulin-mediated ATP production has been associated with enhanced mitochondrial protein synthesis [9,12] and with increased mRNA levels and activities of mitochondrial enzymes involved in fuel oxidation [9]. Consistently, insulin has been shown to promote glucose oxidation [

Does insulin convert glucose to ATP?


Cells in the body take up the circulating glucose in response to insulin and, through a series of reactions called glycolysis, transfer some of the energy in glucose to ADP to form ATP (Figure 2). The last step in glycolysis produces the product pyruvate.

What creates ATP from glucose?


Glucose is converted into ATP by cellular respiration. One molecule of glucose produces 38 ATP molecules by aerobic respiration in the cytoplasm and mitochondria. The steps involved in cellular respiration are glycolysis, Krebs cycle, and oxidative phosphorylation.

This makes sense. But I would think for the protocol to benefit, the amount of insulin should be small enough we don't need to take carbs, right? If I go hypo and then have to eat carbs, it's no longer fasted cardio and I also need to do more to negate the calories.

I think a perfect protocol would be fasted cardio with ecy and gh pre. But a small enough amount we can remain fasted. Definitely not a safe protocol and would require precision to pull off without having to eat some sugar lol

 

[samson516]

Alex Kikel wrote a really good book (in my opinion) titled Exogenous Insulin for Athletics. Here's a look at the table of contents:

Exogenous Insulin and its Interaction with Endogenous Production...1
Exogenous Insulin - Basic Introduction…3
APIDRA…6
NOVOLOG...7
HUMALOG...7
NOVOLIN-R...8
LANTUS...9
ACTIONS OF EXOGENOUS INSULIN FOR ATHLETICS...10
PRACTICAL APPLICATION FOR ATHLETES - By Sport/Goal...22
GENERAL USES...23
PHYSIQUE COMPETITORS (all divisions- male and female)...23
POWERLIFTERS (male & female)...24
STRONGMAN (WOMAN)...24
STRIKING ATHLETES (males & females, BJJ/Boxing/MMA/etc.)...24
TEAM SPORTS ATHLETES (males & females, Football/Basketball/Lacrosse/etc...25
HIGH ENERGETIC SPORTS (males & females, Crossfit/Endurance Sports/etc.)...25
NEUROLOGICALLY DEMANDING SPORTS (males & females, Chess /Gamers/etc...25
SAFE APPLICATION - A First Time User’s Guide...26
FURTHER APPLICATION - An Advanced User’s Guide...27
PRACTICAL APPLICATION FOR ATHLETES - In Depth...29

I was very interested in trying insulin but had never used it before I bought and read this book. I found it very helpful! It definitely gave me more confidence and less anxiety about using it situationally after I had a much better understanding of exactly how to apply it. Examples:

PHYSIQUE COMPETITORS (all divisions- male and female)
- Preworkout to potentiate the workout itself (learning, ATP recycling, anti-catabolic, nutrient partitioning, improvement in hemodynamics, improvement in postworkout BP normalization)
- Postworkout to drive recovery & hyper storage
- Before low intensity cardio to improve fat loss
- Before parasympathetic beta-oxidative walks to improve fat loss
- Upon waking to drive hunger
- On a competition day to fix a spill for physique competitors
- On competition day to improve the glycogen loading process for physique competitors
- To fix diuretic mistakes with potassium (hyperkalamia)
- With GH to improve its action
- With Injectable L-Carnitine to improve its action
- With Injectable Glutathione to improve its action
- With Androgens to improve their actions through different cascades
- Throughout the day with meals to improve nutrient partitioning
- With a free/cheat/D-FLUX meal in order to improve nutrient partitioning
- Reduce strain on pancreas from having a high carbohydrate diet
- Drive direct mTOR

The first half of the book is very science-heavy but also a great intro and backgrounder to insulin!! The rest of the book is how to implement it situationally. Here is one example he gives of situational use that reflects the conversations of this thread:

Before low intensity cardio to improve fat loss
- This is going to drive lipolysis so we can put more fatty acids into our bloodstream to be oxidized off during our aerobic work
- These effects begin as low as 0.5IUs and can be worked up to 2-3IUs depending on how much glucose is in the athlete’s bloodstream (potentially some cases can be even higher but caution must be used)
- This usage is applicable for both genders of all sports
- Insulins preferred are Apidra, Humalog, Novolin-R
- The whole goal of doing this is to not only mimic a “fasted state”, but more importantly, put the nutrients into the bloodstream that we want to oxidize (stored fatty acids from adipocytes and not stored glycogen or nitrogen from intramuscular stores)
- We would utilize them as follows: Apidra: subq right before your cardio, Humalog: subq right before your cardo, Novolin-R: IM right before your cardio, Novolin-R: subq 15-20 minutes before your cardio

Hope this post helps in some way! The book is worth the buy for me!

 

[bigzzz]

Do people really notice more fatloss doing the above? Injecting insulin before cardio? And this has not to be fasted is that correct @samson516 ?

 

[qbkilla]

Do people really notice more fatloss doing the above? Injecting insulin before cardio? And this has not to be fasted is that correct @samson516 ?

I think it's only supposed to be done fasted. Taking slin and carbs pre workout would be counterproductive. If someone takes slin pre cardio they are someone who believes fasted cardio works better than non fasted with daily calories equal.

 

[luki7788]

I think it's only supposed to be done fasted. Taking slin and carbs pre workout would be counterproductive. If someone takes slin pre cardio they are someone who believes fasted cardio works better than non fasted with daily calories equal.

total stupidity - why carbs and insulin before strength training is a bad thing in your opinion? - I use this tactic with 99% of my competitors and it works very well

 

[Hyperemia]

total stupidity - why carbs and insulin before strength training is a bad thing in your opinion? - I use this tactic with 99% of my competitors and it works very well

I think he’s referencing fasted cardio. Not to say I agree, I would never take insulin without carbs unless my BG was over 200 without having had a meal. At that point you need to come off and repair your insulin sensitivity, not throw more insulin into the equation.

 

[samson516]

Do people really notice more fatloss doing the above? Injecting insulin before cardio? And this has not to be fasted is that correct @samson516 ?

I guess theoretically it should! To quote Alex from his book "This is going to drive lipolysis so we can put more fatty acids into our bloodstream to be oxidized off during our aerobic work" and "The whole goal of doing this is to not only mimic a “fasted state”, but more importantly, put the nutrients into the bloodstream that we want to oxidize (stored fatty acids from adipocytes and not stored glycogen or nitrogen from intramuscular stores)."

I do know there's a lot of varying opinions (and published data) out there on fasted vs. non-fasted cardio and which one is better for fat loss (or if it really doesn't make that big of a difference). For myself, I tend to lean more towards fasted cardio for fat loss. Theoretically, it makes sense that fasted cardio should work better!

I mainly do it this way because due to work schedule and evening family obligations, I have to strength train and do my cardio in the early mornings...weight train first and cardio right after. Currently (I just started doing this), upon waking, I'll take a serving of Re-Lyte Hydration (zero carbs). I'll then wait about 30 minutes and drink a couple cups of black coffee. About 5 minutes before starting my weight training, I'll mix up a BCAA/EAA supplement drink with zero carbs and drink about half of it and also do 2-3iu of Novolin-R (I shoot it IM into delts). I'll then start weight training and sip the rest of the drink throughout the training session. Immediately after weight training I do 20-30 minutes of low-medium intensity, steady-state cardio. This is done 5 days per week. I prefer a recumbent bike for this.

I plan to do this for the next couple of months leading up to a beach vacation in August. I'll see how it works!

 

[qbkilla]

total stupidity - why carbs and insulin before strength training is a bad thing in your opinion? - I use this tactic with 99% of my competitors and it works very well

I meant pre cardio. All for slin pre and or Post workout for muscle building.

 

[luki7788]

I meant pre cardio. All for slin pre and or Post workout for muscle building.

now everything is clear.

I'm also not a fan of adding insulin before cardio, unless someone comes out of the offseason and has a very high morning sugar

 

[b-boy]

1-2 iu of insulin right out of bed with 200-600mg L-carnitine(synthetine)

So many prep coaches do this it's not even funny, works great

Always be smart and have some candy, a regular Gatorade or some regular sugar soda on hand for those "what if" moments.

 

[qbkilla]

1-2 iu of insulin right out of bed with 200-600mg L-carnitine(synthetine)

So many prep coaches do this it's not even funny, works great

Always be smart and have some candy, a regular Gatorade or some regular sugar soda on hand for those "what if" moments.

Do they also have them do cardio after the slin?

 

[ihab001]

Just got a bottle of novolin R from Walmart yesterday and pinned ~8iu intramuscularly before my back workout

moved calories/protein/carbs around from a meal to intra workout in order to maintain my deficit

Felt pretty good tbh. Felt like I could take my time a bit more between sets due to the anti-catabolic nature of the insulin, and was able to lift heavier due to this increased rest

I feel like the low dose dnp that I am using is reducing the need for carb intake while the insulin is active in my system

See in this game you can get all the info , but if u don’t man up and try ur self u will never know and u will keep asking , I don’t know any ifbb who doesn’t use insulin during cutting maybe even like 3 or 4 days , other days metformin , maybe also igf-1lr3 , I now use igf-1lr3 on some days and on other days mayber Lantaus in morning and eat carbs all day , and some days Humalog with meal before and infra shake , just play with it cuz even if u have schedule written u won’t follow it hundred percent things happen , also advice stop dnp if u want use clenbeutrol and ephoderine again alternate between them , ur not Ronnie Coleman to need dnp to lose weight I am 250 pounds never used it but never needed it and when I shred I get to 230 with diet and hard long workouts ,

 

[b-boy]

Do they also have them do cardio after the slin?

Yes this is a PRE-CARDIO protocol

 

[Fleezy]

also advice stop dnp if u want use clenbeutrol and ephoderine again alternate between them , ur not Ronnie Coleman to need dnp to lose weight

what?

 

[jaxino]

1-2 iu of insulin right out of bed with 200-600mg L-carnitine(synthetine)

So many prep coaches do this it's not even funny, works great

Always be smart and have some candy, a regular Gatorade or some regular sugar soda on hand for those "what if" moments.

I did that too in past and was really working great....

 

[ihab001]

1-2 iu of insulin right out of bed with 200-600mg L-carnitine(synthetine)

So many prep coaches do this it's not even funny, works great

Always be smart and have some candy, a regular Gatorade or some regular sugar soda on hand for those "what if" moments

Means it’s for a very advanced professionals who abused high dosage deca and high dosage insulin and need that dnp to make weight loss.any one ur level use dnp is for sure ignorant about what they doing to their body