How many of you

[Doitagain]

Well is not an issues of work and responsibilities it’s medical care but let me ask you this based on my progress picture from November to June. I look at it and see growth and a slight decrease in body fat. I went from 215 to 230 and a little leaner. So why would you say it’s and unproductive off season. Do you think it’s all Just glycogen and no muscle mass added? I’ll repost the before and after and also picture from yesterday I took that shows my conditioning a little more. I do love hearing all of your opinions so I Just want a little clarification. These changes you think are pointless? Cuz for me I’ve been looking at my progress and seeing this as the most positive growth phase I’ve had in a long while. Lol I’ve felt like I’ve been very productive in the last couple months.

You're a bit leaner and FAR bigger. Unproductive is the last word that would ever come to my mind.

 

[Growthfreak]

You're a bit leaner and FAR bigger. Unproductive is the last word that would ever come to my mind.

Lol I’m trying to figure out if I’m completely delusional or not

 

[luki7788]

Well is not an issues of work and responsibilities it’s medical care but let me ask you this based on my progress picture from November to June. I look at it and see growth and a slight decrease in body fat. I went from 215 to 230 and a little leaner. So why would you say it’s and unproductive off season. Do you think it’s all Just glycogen and no muscle mass added? I’ll repost the before and after and also picture from yesterday I took that shows my conditioning a little more. I do love hearing all of your opinions so I Just want a little clarification. These changes you think are pointless? Cuz for me I’ve been looking at my progress and seeing this as the most positive growth phase I’ve had in a long while. Lol I’ve felt like I’ve been very productive in the last couple months.

you have grown, that's a fact, but if you started with a lower level of fat, I bet that you would get 2x more results

anyway, I'm not writing about what was before and what is now - and personally, as I wrote, I would enter a small kcal deficit something like -300-500kcal and let the fat burn - this method in 16-24 weeks you will keep all the muscles and you will be in a very good place to start the offseason - you will get more in this way than if you continued the growth phase for the next 16-24 weeks - this is just my opinion

 

[Growthfreak]

you have grown, that's a fact, but if you started with a lower level of fat, I bet that you would get 2x more results

anyway, I'm not writing about what was before and what is now - and personally, as I wrote, I would enter a small kcal deficit something like -300-500kcal and let the fat burn - this method in 16-24 weeks you will keep all the muscles and you will be in a very good place to start the offseason - you will get more in this way than if you continued the growth phase for the next 16-24 weeks - this is just my opinion

i will never fight 2x the results.

 

[b-boy]

No did not do my show in 2021, I got pretty sick and spent a year trying to figure it out and maintain muscle mass. But yes I agree I would have a better off season rebounding after a show but will happen in due time. I don’t feel like I can currently with my health and treatment program go into a prep successfully. I have 5 days of infusion therapy once a month that makes me pretty sick and unable to stay on a prep program. Essential I have 3 weeks on and then a week of recovering from treatment. Hoping next year I’ll be able to cut down and compete but as of now I’m really happy to be able to bodybuild at all. I’m a stubborn son of a bitch trying to bodybuild while trying to put an autoimmune condition in remission. But yes I hear you and agree but timing and health and treatment programs are complicating things.

So what do you do in the offseason when you have these treatments? You are still putting weight on, so you must not be missing much food. There is very little difference between prep and offseason other than amount of food eaten (deficit vs. surplus)

 

[Growthfreak]

So what do you do in the offseason when you have these treatments? You are still putting weight on, so you must not be missing much food. There is very little difference between prep and offseason other than amount of food eaten (deficit vs. surplus)

My condition and treatment plan is extremely complex and rare so im not gonna get into the details. If you want to find out more it’s called polymyositis. Currently when im on my treatment week I can’t workout legs, or do cardio until im recovered. I take anti nausea medication to try and help with me eating. When I can’t eat I do shakes with some form of carbs. Having to stop cardio during a prep every 3 weeks and well as working out wouldn’t be the most ideal situation for loosing weight and getting stage ready. I’ve never hear of someone peeping for a show and taking a week off cardio every 4th week. During a bulk the time off might actually be beneficial. Also the way I have to push my body to loose weight wouldn’t be beneficial for me recovering. I As you know leaning down to crazy weight takes a big tole on the body. It’s not a matter of lazy or and excuse to not want to, it’s a matter of staying healthy and not pushing myself into a further hole.

 

[Sixfoottwo]

I like the topic. I really started when I got out of SF so was very very fit but was like 80 kg or so at 1.91. Wanted to get big big. Soon realized I had a shit build so figured I'd want to be like 110 kg but lean and just look good. Well I'm now 114 and lean-ish and still look small so kinda changed my goal and would like to hit 120 kg at around 10%. Will probably take me a couple years but still.

 

[Hammer4]

My condition and treatment plan is extremely complex and rare so im not gonna get into the details. If you want to find out more it’s called polymyositis. Currently when im on my treatment week I can’t workout legs, or do cardio until im recovered. I take anti nausea medication to try and help with me eating. When I can’t eat I do shakes with some form of carbs. Having to stop cardio during a prep every 3 weeks and well as working out wouldn’t be the most ideal situation for loosing weight and getting stage ready. I’ve never hear of someone peeping for a show and taking a week off cardio every 4th week. During a bulk the time off might actually be beneficial. Also the way I have to push my body to loose weight wouldn’t be beneficial for me recovering. I As you know leaning down to crazy weight takes a big tole on the body. It’s not a matter of lazy or and excuse to not want to, it’s a matter of staying healthy and not pushing myself into a further hole.

Dude, many of the top bodybuilders on this board have taken an interest in you because you have amazing potential, even with all your struggles. But it seems like you are reluctant to listen to them. Why?

 

[trackstar19]

Dude, many of the top bodybuilders on this board have taken an interest in you because you have amazing potential, even with all your struggles. But it seems like you are reluctant to listen to them. Why?

Do you have a rare complex autoimmune disease? Do you understand the complexities of such and treatments, etc. required? Bodybuilding isn’t anything if you aren’t healthy enough to partake in it. He’s clearly trying to balance both despite the odds/adversity. I, too, have a rare autoimmune disease. C3g disease. My body thinks my kidneys are a foreign invader and attacks them until they fail. Trying to balance bodybuilding and keeping my disease in remission is insanely hard. If you’re healthy just appreciate you have *no* idea what it’s like. I can’t take most steroids, no diuretics, my kidneys are so damaged I’m always spilling protein which causes water retention subcutaneously (look up oncotic pressure and the importance of normal serum albumin). It isn’t as simple as ‘taking peoples advice and doing what it takes’. We have to try to keep our diseases in remission, take immunosuppressive drugs that are the antithesis of bodybuilding, etc.

Again - if you’re healthy just be thankful for that. Competitive bodybuilding and balancing serious health conditions do not go well together. So if you’re healthy and look worse than us you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself what’s your excuse?

 

[Growthfreak]

Dude, many of the top bodybuilders on this board have taken an interest in you because you have amazing potential, even with all your struggles. But it seems like you are reluctant to listen to them. Why?

I’m not reluctant to listen to them at all. If I was I wouldn’t be on the board. I’m just explaining my personal situation.

 

[Growthfreak]

Do you have a rare complex autoimmune disease? Do you understand the complexities of such and treatments, etc. required? Bodybuilding isn’t anything if you aren’t healthy enough to partake in it. He’s clearly trying to balance both despite the odds/adversity. I, too, have a rare autoimmune disease. C3g disease. My body thinks my kidneys are a foreign invader and attacks them until they fail. Trying to balance bodybuilding and keeping my disease in remission is insanely hard. If you’re healthy just appreciate you have *no* idea what it’s like. I can’t take most steroids, no diuretics, my kidneys are so damaged I’m always spilling protein which causes water retention subcutaneously (look up oncotic pressure and the importance of normal serum albumin). It isn’t as simple as ‘taking peoples advice and doing what it takes’. We have to try to keep our diseases in remission, take immunosuppressive drugs that are the antithesis of bodybuilding, etc.

Again - if you’re healthy just be thankful for that. Competitive bodybuilding and balancing serious health conditions do not go well together. So if you’re healthy and look worse than us you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself what’s your excuse?

Thank you, I second this. I think it’s really hard for people to conceptualize what our health lives are like. But big respect to you for trying to bodybuild through your condition. Show you really have a passion for the sport.

 

[Hammer4]

Do you have a rare complex autoimmune disease? Do you understand the complexities of such and treatments, etc. required? Bodybuilding isn’t anything if you aren’t healthy enough to partake in it. He’s clearly trying to balance both despite the odds/adversity. I, too, have a rare autoimmune disease. C3g disease. My body thinks my kidneys are a foreign invader and attacks them until they fail. Trying to balance bodybuilding and keeping my disease in remission is insanely hard. If you’re healthy just appreciate you have *no* idea what it’s like. I can’t take most steroids, no diuretics, my kidneys are so damaged I’m always spilling protein which causes water retention subcutaneously (look up oncotic pressure and the importance of normal serum albumin). It isn’t as simple as ‘taking peoples advice and doing what it takes’. We have to try to keep our diseases in remission, take immunosuppressive drugs that are the antithesis of bodybuilding, etc.

Again - if you’re healthy just be thankful for that. Competitive bodybuilding and balancing serious health conditions do not go well together. So if you’re healthy and look worse than us you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself what’s your excuse?

I'm sorry to hear about your plight friend but nothing in that rambling post has anything to do with dropping some fat before bulking again which was my only point.

 

[Hammer4]

I’m not reluctant to listen to them at all. If I was I wouldn’t be on the board. I’m just explaining my personal situation.

Ok man best of luck. You've got quite a foundation.

 

[emeric delczeg]

My condition and treatment plan is extremely complex and rare so im not gonna get into the details. If you want to find out more it’s called polymyositis. Currently when im on my treatment week I can’t workout legs, or do cardio until im recovered. I take anti nausea medication to try and help with me eating. When I can’t eat I do shakes with some form of carbs. Having to stop cardio during a prep every 3 weeks and well as working out wouldn’t be the most ideal situation for loosing weight and getting stage ready. I’ve never hear of someone peeping for a show and taking a week off cardio every 4th week. During a bulk the time off might actually be beneficial. Also the way I have to push my body to loose weight wouldn’t be beneficial for me recovering. I As you know leaning down to crazy weight takes a big tole on the body. It’s not a matter of lazy or and excuse to not want to, it’s a matter of staying healthy and not pushing myself into a further hole.

Look in to FGF-21.

 

[Fleezy]

I'm sorry to hear about your plight friend but nothing in that rambling post has anything to do with dropping some fat before bulking again which was my only point.

ol' boy going in on these guys with serious autoimmune disorders lol



my goodness

 

[Ace0]

did u do that show in 2021 or u didn’t and stopped at 8 weeks out? And realistically, 8 weeks out probably isn’t lean enough (at least in my head) to start a great offseason. I would be willing to bet that you have a fear of getting fat because you are starting your off-seasons with probably a bit too much bf. I’ve seen you post pics on here and they have all been above 10-12+%. You will have an infinity better off-season if you start lean lean and have a great rebound.

Okay I have a great question for this because a lot of beginners or lifetime intermediates (like me) have this “yo-yo” diet problem. We start dieting down to get lean lean, get down to like 10% maybe 8% if we are generous then we realize “fuck I’m way smaller than I thought and I should stop and bulk”. Than we turn around half way through the cut and start bulking so we can have a “real off-season” or put on “serious size” or what have you. Subsequently we put on like 10-20lbs and feel like fat slobs and the cycle continues.

The solution is to gut it out and just get lean, but in the moment I just think if I bulk and get a lot of mass cutting becomes easier and I’ll have more to show, bla bla. What you guys are saying is get stage lean at least once before bulking for real? Do you have or anyone else have tips to how one can actually commit to getting stage lean if we aren’t able to compete for whatever reason?

 

[Mufasa123]

Okay I have a great question for this because a lot of beginners or lifetime intermediates (like me) have this “yo-yo” diet problem. We start dieting down to get lean lean, get down to like 10% maybe 8% if we are generous then we realize “fuck I’m way smaller than I thought and I should stop and bulk”. Than we turn around half way through the cut and start bulking so we can have a “real off-season” or put on “serious size” or what have you. Subsequently we put on like 10-20lbs and feel like fat slobs and the cycle continues.

The solution is to gut it out and just get lean, but in the moment I just think if I bulk and get a lot of mass cutting becomes easier and I’ll have more to show, bla bla. What you guys are saying is get stage lean at least once before bulking for real? Do you have or anyone else have tips to how one can actually commit to getting stage lean if we aren’t able to compete for whatever reason?

I'll let others opine on stage lean but I think (for whatever that's worth) the real key for a non competitor or someone who doesn't care about being stage condition is to get lean. Let's call it low for your natural set point which for most is single digits or legit 10% - most people say 10% but are really 12 to 14% - and then grow without adding a ton of fat ie don't get over legit 12-13% because with tight diet and calorie controls you can optimally add muscle in this range with the added benefit of staying lean. Everyone has their own individual range but this is probably close for most.

One thing I've learned from bodybuilders is that they are REALLY FUCKING GOOD at getting their chosen macros and total calories (amount) right. Look at the competitors on this board - training varies vastly, drugs vary vastly, the one thing they all have in common is super focus and discipline on diet (they know exactly what they are eating, can be looser in some periods but they are masters here). There's a reason they focus on diet so damn heavily and often get tired of all the drug talk - diet makes or breaks cycles for them. They can bulk or cut on any combo of drugs, it's not magic. Even diet isn't magic but it's long term consistent discipline. That's where most fail and why they don't get the results or look good despite having great looking AAS cycles or big dosages.

 

[b-boy]

I'll let others opine on stage lean but I think (for whatever that's worth) the real key for a non competitor or someone who doesn't care about being stage condition is to get lean. Let's call it low for your natural set point which for most is single digits or legit 10% - most people say 10% but are really 12 to 14% - and then grow without adding a ton of fat ie don't get over legit 12-13% because with tight diet and calorie controls you can optimally add muscle in this range with the added benefit of staying lean. Everyone has their own individual range but this is probably close for most.

One thing I've learned from bodybuilders is that they are REALLY FUCKING GOOD at getting their chosen macros and total calories (amount) right. Look at the competitors on this board - training varies vastly, drugs vary vastly, the one thing they all have in common is super focus and discipline on diet (they know exactly what they are eating, can be looser in some periods but they are masters here). There's a reason they focus on diet so damn heavily and often get tired of all the drug talk - diet makes or breaks cycles for them. They can bulk or cut on any combo of drugs, it's not magic. Even diet isn't magic but it's long term consistent discipline. That's where most fail and why they don't get the results or look good despite having great looking AAS cycles or big dosages.

 

[goback2013]

I'll let others opine on stage lean but I think (for whatever that's worth) the real key for a non competitor or someone who doesn't care about being stage condition is to get lean. Let's call it low for your natural set point which for most is single digits or legit 10% - most people say 10% but are really 12 to 14% - and then grow without adding a ton of fat ie don't get over legit 12-13% because with tight diet and calorie controls you can optimally add muscle in this range with the added benefit of staying lean. Everyone has their own individual range but this is probably close for most.

One thing I've learned from bodybuilders is that they are REALLY FUCKING GOOD at getting their chosen macros and total calories (amount) right. Look at the competitors on this board - training varies vastly, drugs vary vastly, the one thing they all have in common is super focus and discipline on diet (they know exactly what they are eating, can be looser in some periods but they are masters here). There's a reason they focus on diet so damn heavily and often get tired of all the drug talk - diet makes or breaks cycles for them. They can bulk or cut on any combo of drugs, it's not magic. Even diet isn't magic but it's long term consistent discipline. That's where most fail and why they don't get the results or look good despite having great looking AAS cycles or big dosages.

Diet starts tomorrow after I finish off this half gallon of ice cream I just bought tonight.

 

[goback2013]

Diet starts tomorrow after I finish off this half gallon of ice cream I just bought tonight.

In all seriousness I'm taking the challenge and will be more aware of my dietary choices.
Just like when I started running, if Joe Office-worker can get in his miles, so can I. Meaning if someone else can be more disciplined about their diet so can I. I accept the challenge.
If I can weigh my daily dosages of drugs, then I can do the same with my food.